Tiny Cameras - Good Pics? Reports from Along the Line

[mbinsewi]

Nice .  Looks like you have a daunting task with scernery on all of this.  I have been watching from the start.

Mike.

[Onewolf]

I bought an SQ8 from Amazon last week and shot a trainview video of a train traversing the entire length of my mainline from exiting the lower return loop all the way up to the upper return loop and then back down all the way through the lower return loop back to the starting position.  I speeded up the video 4X real-time because it took about 27 minutes in real time.

It really highlights numerous issues where I need to work on the track 'smoothosity'.  :)

[RR_Mel]

I don’t have a drop center flat car but It might allow both cameras to fit vertically for dual camera operation and still clear my tunnel portals.  If so the wireless camera would become a viewfinder for the SQ8.  I bought a drop center flat off eBay last night to give that a shot.

 

I only have some scribbles on paper so far, when the flat gets here and I get something done I’ll post some pictures.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[mbinsewi]

Thanks Mike.  I have opened up the camera, but didn't go as far as you, as I figured my clumsiness with tiny electronics could lead to disaster.  Now that I see the camera in "pieces", I know where the slight gost imagery of a circuit board comes from in night vision mode.

Maybe your method would allow the camera to be turned more towards the layout, instead of panaramic views of my basement. 

I am starting to rethink my views of this camera, now that I have made a few videos.  I think the night vision videos came out the best.  I also did a video of going the opposite direction around the layout.

And for all those wondering about all my hidden track, I built the  layout so everything comes off in modules.  The city scene, the mill and food plant, and the tree covered hill in the corner, all are removable. 

Mike.

[mlehman]

Been fiddling with things today and getting behind on the discussion here, but now have an interesting update.

Mel,

Sounds like a great idea to have a "camera crew" aboard to pan around, could make for even better video.

Mike,

Youtube has been frustrating me today more than usual, I just finally got to watch some of your videos. Nice-looking layout and your hidden track is much cleaner than mine, sort of like the difference in appearance between the DC Metro and the Boston subway.

I may have a solution for the limited field of focus in the SQ8 that prevents nice closeups. Took the camera apart. Screw on top for the case is obvious and it comes right apart. There are then 2 screws holding the board in, take them out, but be careful here as the battery power stays hooked up unless you desolder the leads. Don't melt things down by shorting something!

You'll need to press gently on the 2 lower IR LEDs on the front of the camera, then the board will pop loose. A small silver plastic fitting that serves as the keys to operate buttons on the board will be loosened as you take the board out. It kinda pivots on/off at the top and the board swings up, installation is doing the opposite.

In the pic below, you can see most of what I referenced, plus a small black disc of plain ol' black construction paper made with a hole punch. The black disc has a pinhole in its center.

A couple of spots of tacky glue and the pinhole lens goes centered over where the stock lens looks out from the case. I did not try to take out the old lens, just doubled the new pinhole lens in front of it. Then look at the lens opening from the front/outside of the case to check on how well centered the pinhole is; adjust it now, if you need to slide it a little to get centered. Eyeball measurements will work to center it for good effect.

This does reduce light coming into the camera. Things look darker and will need some post-production Photoshop work. The video is similar, but I've never PSed video before, so not messing with them yet. Obviously, throwing extra lighting on the scene will help, but when follwing a moving train that's tougher than it sounds.

This shot of the folks in front of the Silverton depot shows how things are in better focus close in with a great depth of field, both thanks to the pinhole lens.

I do wonder if there's a video exposure setting that can be adjusted on board in the camera to adjust the autoexposure parameters? Needs some more work, but was easy and cheap to do so, with observable results.

 

[mbinsewi]

Thanks Mel.  That's seems like a great project, to be able to move the camera! And you are just the gadget guy to do it.

Can't to see what you come up with.

I just did another video using night vision, since I have so much hiddentrack, at least now can see all the way around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1etkP9z3fA

Mike.

[RR_Mel]

mbinsewi

Actually Mel, I would like a camera-to-monitor system for all of the hidden track I have. 

Mike.

 

Mike, I haven’t tried using video to the side but after seeing your great scenery it gave me an idea.  I think I’ll give a remote pan mount using a servo (RC) to rotate both a wireless camera and the SQ8 on a flat car (one at a time).  I’m a gadget guy through and through and that really sounds like a good project to me.  

 

I really like the camera to monitor system for seeing what’s going on on my layout.  The SQ8 will be used for posting videos on my blog.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[mbinsewi]

Like I said in my earlier post on this, I had the camera facing in to the layout.  Maybe I'll try one head on like yours, and see how it does.

Mike.

[trainmaster247]

My experience with the SQ8 can be found here I found it to work really well and I wasn't disappointed: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/28667

[mbinsewi]

OK, lets try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRKGCjFo1q0

Mike.

I hope no one is affraid of the dark, because about half of this video is in hidden area.  I'm going to try a night vision, head on video to see the hidden area.

[mbinsewi]

Actually Mel, I would like a camera-to-monitor system for all of the hidden track I have.  I probably use my SQ8 for a dash cam, or when I'm on my walk.  Not to happy with it for model railroad purposes.  I need to figure out how I can post my YT video I did with the SQ8, so everyone can see my results.

Mike.

[RR_Mel]

I have two early micro wireless cameras mounted in dummy A’s that work pretty good for their time.  Because they are both camera to monitor systems I don’t have any video recordings to post. 

 

My first camera (2.4G about 2004 in a PA-1) didn’t do well because I powered it from the rails, any slight wheel arcing glitched the video.  Nine volt alkaline batteries didn’t last very long and NiCD battery voltage starting out (7.2 V) was to low for more than a few minutes of operation.

 

With 10 or so years of experience under my belt from the first camera the second camera (5.8G in a E8A) went much better.  I went with a pair of 4.5 amp hour rechargeable lithium batteries (18650), they power the camera easily for hours.  The 5.8G camera was also much better than the 2.4G (10 years later), no glitching and much better resolution.  I used a E7B with a decoder as a pusher using the accessory functions to control the camera power and lighting.  I installed 6 super bright LEDs pointed out the cab windshields for camera lighting in tunnels and night scenes, also powered from the Lithium batteries.  I used two micro relays (F3 & F4) to operate the camera and the camera lighting.  Both cameras have a pinhole lens and amazingly have very good closeup focus.

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

With all the good stuff about the new micro SQ8 I went for it, much easier to work with but the SQ8 is much larger than the wireless cameras so that dinged hiding it in a normal E7A dummy.  I currently have a locomotive (Model Power E7A dummy) under construction to mount the SQ8 in with an easily removable shell and camera access.  I haven’t decided about lighting for the SQ8 yet, lighting might not be needed.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

[mlehman]

bigpianoguy

Here's one I pulled from my Photobucket file. The focal range seems rather short; about 10 inches in front of the camera.

That did come out rather better than footage from my SQ8 -- and nicely done whistle effects BTW

I did come across something that might make experimenting with the fixed lens  most tiny cams come with, a set of lenses intended to work with your smartphone to extend its pic capabilities, for around $10:

http://www.banggood.com/8-in-1-Super-Fisheye-with-Wide-Angle-Macro-Phone-Lens-kit-for-Universal-Cellphones-p-1127270.html?rmmds=mywishlist

The smartphone option involves a clamp that holds the lens, but the clamp will not work on thicker cameras, I suspect, so a different means of holding the lens to the camera may be required if the clamp can't be bent to suit a thicker case. This is a list of the lens option it allows: the 235°super fisheye, 180° fisheye, 19X Macro Lens, 0.54X Super Wide Angle Lens, 0.67X Wide Lens, Macro, CPL polarizer, Telephone Lens 2X

I may get one of these to see what I can do with it.

[bigpianoguy]

Here's one I pulled from my Photobucket file. The focal range seems rather short; about 10 inches in front of the camera. I think that next time I delve into this I'll set up a pilot to put the camera on so I don't get that 'going to hit the corner then whoosh around' effect...also, even though I got the embed link from Pb, I couldn't get it to show up in my post so here's the vid as a link:

http://vid1120.photobucket.com/albums/l490/bigpianoguy/Sheridan%20Layout/Feb0913_zps53b66af2.mp4

 

 

[mlehman]

Alan,

Thanks for the info.

Alantrains

Not having a screen is a disadvantage. It's point and shoot and pray.

A screen certainly helps with user feedback, but for most tiny cameras, getting enough real estate for a usable screen is going to be a challenge I think. Having no feedback after filming initiation on the SQ8 makes it really mysterious. So if there's not a screen -- and there often won't be -- it's good to have at least a blinking LED or other means to advise if the camera is working is helpful.

[Alantrains]

Hi Mike,

I meant to include this.

Camera is a Vivitar DVR 685HD.

Not having a screen is a disadvantage. It's point and shoot and pray.

Has about an hour of battery time.

 

[mlehman]

G Paine

It brodcasts to a flat screen TV, we still have to figure out video capture from that; the TV has a USB port, so that may be the way to grab the image.

George,

Thanks for the links.

I managed to find a USB to composite (R,W,Y) RCA plugs, plus S video, converter for about $6.

http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-USB-2_0-Video-TV-DVD-VHS-Audio-Capture-Adapter-UTV007-p-2758.html?rmmds=myorder

[mlehman]

bigpianoguy

I use one of those 'spy' cameras you see on eBay with an SD chip. I'll be happy to share the remarkably good video I get as soon as someone explains how to post a video from Photobucket here...

 

Should be a option to grab what's called an "embed code" then you just paste it in here with the Video insert option that's in the toolbar here. There will be an option in it to paste the embed code in and then it comes out as an embedded video link.

 

[mlehman]

Alantrains

I bought this camera for $20 and like others found it doesn't focus up close very well, but it does do a reasonable job of showing off my small layout from a drivers perspective.

Alan,

It does have the right form factor I'd need for HOn3, because I can see the GE 70-tonner sitting behind it, but your concerns on close focusing are noted.

Just for the record, what brand/model camera is it? It looks sorta familiar, but my CRS is not giving me an answer right now...

[mlehman]

Lone Wolf and Santa Fe

Some cameras can switch into MACRO mode which will change the focal point down to just a few millimeters for close ups of miniature objects. The icon usually looks like a flower. That is what to look for in a model railroad camera.

True enough. I have two Canon digicams, a PS A70 that I added the optional macro lens set to) and a PS SX100, which is a wide zoom camera that has the lens and macro digital system built in. They're great when they fit, but...they often just don't on the layout. So no problem including those as part of the conversation, as they're generally much better cameras, especially the lenses, than the tiny ones that can fit where they won't.

[bigpianoguy]

I use one of those 'spy' cameras you see on eBay with an SD chip. I'll be happy to share the remarkably good video I get as soon as someone explains how to post a video from Photobucket here...

[G Paine]

I just purchased a small camera for Boothbay Ralway Village and installed it in a gondola. It so new one of our volunters has run a quick test, and is very excited about the results compaired to our old camrea which died. It is Hi Def with sound.

It brodcasts to a flat screen TV, we still have to figure out video capture from  that; the TV has a USB port, so that may be the way to grab the image. Otherwise, the receiver could plug into a VCR, or anything that has RCA plugs on it.

I got it from MicroMark. This is the camera
http://www.micromark.com/Wireless-Micro-Camera-System-with-Sound-2-4-Ghz

and the power pickup from DCC which elimiates the battery
http://www.micromark.com/Battery-Eliminator-for-Micro-Camera

They also have a RTR version wiich comformes to NMRA clerance standards
http://www.micromark.com/HO-Camera-Car

 

[Alantrains]

A great topic and plenty of good information in this discussion. I bought this camera for $20 and like others found it doesn't focus up close very well, but it does do a reasonable job of showing off my small layout from a drivers perspective. I am going to build a well wagon to sit it in so I get a lower view.

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

A camera’s lens has a focal point where the image is in focus. You can not get clear images if you are closer than the focal point. Some cameras can switch into MACRO mode which will change the focal point down to just a few millimeters for close ups of miniature objects. The icon usually looks like a flower. That is what to look for in a model railroad camera. Also the more light the better. It’s lights, camera, action.

[mlehman]

Thanks to everyone so far for your contributions. I think this will be helpful for lots of folks considering their options, since the technology is so accessible now cheaply. What many don't have is exprience in what hardware works and what doesn't quite, like the SQ8.

I've got to get back to a project right now, but wanted to note that there are some pretty effective wireless link solutions for video now developed for the drone community. Tiny drones called "whoops" typically carry a FPV camera system that intergrates the video downlink via 5.8 mhz via a control and video app you download to your smartphone. Images are pretty darn good, at least me drone has a very similar system and it's got a great image from the drone.

Here's one example of this all-in-one video system: http://www.banggood.com/Eachine-TX03-PAL-Super-Mini-025mW50mW200mW-Switchable-AIO-5_8G-72CH-VTX-600TVL-FPV-Camera-p-1122363.html?rmmds=category

Unlike on a drone where battery power is a constant worry, on the layout there's always electricity close at hand to power a video link like this.

If you want the full immersion experience, then you get the FPV googles, feeding the signal to them.

Ed,

I'll have to check out the Mobius.

[gmpullman]

Mike,

Here is the site that has a bit more information on the Mobius and you can download the manual and configuration software and look it over first.

From what I read at Amazon reviews, stay away from the Mobius 2.

https://www.mobius-actioncam.com/

Now that this topic has come up I'm going to have to get the camera out of my truck and make some updated videos 

Again, this is just my experience. But there's something to say about build quality if it survives the extremes of being on my dash year-round and still being able to take great RR videos after two years, I call that a pretty good investment.

YMMV

Regards, Ed

[mbinsewi]

Ed, I checked out the Amazon link, looks good, and a good price, for what it does.  At 2 1/2" long, and 1 3/8", by 11/16" high, it makes a good fit for HO cars.  It even looks like I can use the same mini card I bought for the SQ8.

Thanks!

Mike.

[gmpullman]

Hi, Mike

I picked up a SQ8 when they first became available and I'm pretty sure it was under $20 at the time. I didn't expect much and, well, that's pretty much what it delivered. One thing that was unacceptable to me was the way the exposure changed in "steps". If there was a way to lock-in one exposure setting that would be great but I have not found that option.

Before I had the SQ8 I used (and STILL use) a Mobius Action Cam:

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Box-Mobius-Action-Camera/dp/B00N6AWQ5I/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1487525285&sr=1-6&keywords=mobius+action+camera

With excellent results. This camera doubles as my dash board camera while driving, too. I have it on one of those Gorilla tripods or similar. It is two years old and usually sits on the dash of my truck in blazing heat and through cold winters.

The Mobius can be configures through the USB cable and a utility program somewhat similar to JMRI. You just click the options you want and it writes that to the camera CPU.

With a 16Mb card in it I get about ten hours of HD video and it automatically loops, recording over the oldest clips.

Here is a video using the Mobius:

Before the Mobius I used this rig:

IMG_2456 by Edmund, on Flickr

Contour Roam: Obviously its size introduces some limitations but six years ago this was about the only econimical choice.

https://www.amazon.com/Contour-ROAM3-Waterproof-Video-Camera/dp/B00METYIQ2/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

It also produces excellent HD video but I do not have an example of it on YouTube presently.

I plan to use the SQ8 mounted inside a signal tower with a view toward the tracks, wired to a cheap 7" LCD screen I have so visitors can get an "operator's view" of the passing trains. I'll mount the LCD on the fascia.

Good Luck, Ed

[BroadwayLion]

 

No problem on line of LION. Just  a cheap Swann camera from B+H photo, now many years old. better there are out there.

 

LEDs of LION are on DC power, no 60hz struff for him.

ROAR