I was going to start a thread on my recently acquired SQ8 minicam/DVR. But after further thought, I figured this might be more useful in using my experience to open a discussion of other solutions that work, preferably in a form-factor that works within the HOn3 loading gauge.
I posted a video I made in 1080P in this week's WPF: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/261321.aspx
It wasn't bad, but it had its limitations. The image picked up the 60 hz pulse from my LED lighting, leading to a bunch of gray bars rolling down the image as it went. The synch between image and audio was way out of bounds. The tiny two-button control system is confusing to an old coot like me. The video played at different speeds on different platforms...I could go on. Let's say that there are some minor irritations you'll put up with for $15.
The SQ8 does have soem usefulness. The ride-along video is OK, once you ignore the issues noted above, as it can be in 1080P, but now thinking that 720P might really look better. The SQ8 did work well inspecting my hidden track, so it's well worth what I paid for that alone.
Some have complained about how hot it gets when charging. One person commented on removing the TF card when charging and I found it was much cooler, since this allowed for more circulation space around the battery.
The night vision LEDs do work at short range
, but unless you need the stealth, adding light as I did with my "tunnel rat" rig worked better.
I'll probably think of more, but let's move on...
Video is cool in such a small package, but I was looking forward to still pics to redeem things in this mixed bag for users. It supposedly will yield "1.2 megapixel" images and maybe that's so. There's a bigger problem for use on the layout, where the hopes in such a tiny unit are that you can drop down to HO eyelevel or maybe a little below and take shots not always possible with larger cameras.
Here's the two best shots from a couple of dozen I took for test purposes.
This one was in the service area of the Crater Lake quarry and as you can see the close focus is not very. This sorta works here.
But it's just never going to be great. This one worked a little better, because it kept the fuzzy close-in as a way to frame the better focused farther away.
So that was somewhat disappointing. You need about 18" or so between the camera and the subject to get a decent pic with the SQ8 on the layout.
Maybe there's a fix to this, like adapting a pinhole lens to the little cube cam?
And there are alternatives out there, including the presumably improved SQ9. Anyone able to tell us more about how useful any of the less expensibe cams that might sub for the SG8 work on the layout?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I encountered the same as what you describe, Mike. I pulled my flat car, with the camera at about a 45 degree angle, looking in at the layout. Not a very clear image of things close, and as you mention, anything past 16" was clear. Since half my continuous run main is hidden, It's not a very interesting video, so I didn't post it. It is on the YouTube link below. The reason I pointed it into the layout, is because the tracks run along the edge, so nothing to see on the other side, except my basement.
I also had problems with the tiny buttons, no matter how many times I've watched videos on how to get into different modes, the indicator light on mine does not always match was the instructions say.
If you got yours for $15, great! I searched and searched, and found lots of place "out of stock", finially found one through Amazon Prime, and along with the mini card, and adaptor, it was about $30.
"Night" vision works, and I have yet to set up a car like yours to inspect the hidden areas.
Mike.
My You Tube
I installed a camera in the front car of a subway train.
A lot of advances have been made in technology since I got this. I always intended it to work the way it does, in real-time with the video image playing on a TV monitor, or recordable on a camcorder via a cable from the receiver box. Today's cameras seem to be mostly writing to memory for later retrieval.
That has a big advantage for picture quality. The RF transmission used by mine is subject to dropouts, and putting the whole thing in tunnels most of the way around the layout does not help any. On the other hand, I never have to even take the subway car apart to get to the picture. The camera and transmitter get DCC power from the track.
I had overheat problems at first, and I had to remove the interior illumination from that end of the car. The second image above shows the camera in the porthole window at the front of the car. The two enlarged holes now contain LEDs to illuminate the tunnels. I've also added lights to the walls of the tunnels, but it's still pretty dark.
I had to do a lot of frame-by-frame editing to make this look decent with all the dropouts.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
No problem on line of LION. Just a cheap Swann camera from B+H photo, now many years old. better there are out there.
LEDs of LION are on DC power, no 60hz struff for him.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Hi, Mike
I picked up a SQ8 when they first became available and I'm pretty sure it was under $20 at the time. I didn't expect much and, well, that's pretty much what it delivered. One thing that was unacceptable to me was the way the exposure changed in "steps". If there was a way to lock-in one exposure setting that would be great but I have not found that option.
Before I had the SQ8 I used (and STILL use) a Mobius Action Cam:
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Box-Mobius-Action-Camera/dp/B00N6AWQ5I/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1487525285&sr=1-6&keywords=mobius+action+camera
With excellent results. This camera doubles as my dash board camera while driving, too. I have it on one of those Gorilla tripods or similar. It is two years old and usually sits on the dash of my truck in blazing heat and through cold winters.
The Mobius can be configures through the USB cable and a utility program somewhat similar to JMRI. You just click the options you want and it writes that to the camera CPU.
With a 16Mb card in it I get about ten hours of HD video and it automatically loops, recording over the oldest clips.
Here is a video using the Mobius:
Before the Mobius I used this rig:
IMG_2456 by Edmund, on Flickr
Contour Roam: Obviously its size introduces some limitations but six years ago this was about the only econimical choice.
https://www.amazon.com/Contour-ROAM3-Waterproof-Video-Camera/dp/B00METYIQ2/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
It also produces excellent HD video but I do not have an example of it on YouTube presently.
I plan to use the SQ8 mounted inside a signal tower with a view toward the tracks, wired to a cheap 7" LCD screen I have so visitors can get an "operator's view" of the passing trains. I'll mount the LCD on the fascia.
Good Luck, Ed
Ed, I checked out the Amazon link, looks good, and a good price, for what it does. At 2 1/2" long, and 1 3/8", by 11/16" high, it makes a good fit for HO cars. It even looks like I can use the same mini card I bought for the SQ8.
Thanks!
Mike,
Here is the site that has a bit more information on the Mobius and you can download the manual and configuration software and look it over first.
From what I read at Amazon reviews, stay away from the Mobius 2.
https://www.mobius-actioncam.com/
Now that this topic has come up I'm going to have to get the camera out of my truck and make some updated videos
Again, this is just my experience. But there's something to say about build quality if it survives the extremes of being on my dash year-round and still being able to take great RR videos after two years, I call that a pretty good investment.
YMMV
Regards, Ed
Thanks to everyone so far for your contributions. I think this will be helpful for lots of folks considering their options, since the technology is so accessible now cheaply. What many don't have is exprience in what hardware works and what doesn't quite, like the SQ8.
I've got to get back to a project right now, but wanted to note that there are some pretty effective wireless link solutions for video now developed for the drone community. Tiny drones called "whoops" typically carry a FPV camera system that intergrates the video downlink via 5.8 mhz via a control and video app you download to your smartphone. Images are pretty darn good, at least me drone has a very similar system and it's got a great image from the drone.
Here's one example of this all-in-one video system: http://www.banggood.com/Eachine-TX03-PAL-Super-Mini-025mW50mW200mW-Switchable-AIO-5_8G-72CH-VTX-600TVL-FPV-Camera-p-1122363.html?rmmds=category
Unlike on a drone where battery power is a constant worry, on the layout there's always electricity close at hand to power a video link like this.
If you want the full immersion experience, then you get the FPV googles, feeding the signal to them.
Ed,
I'll have to check out the Mobius.
A camera’s lens has a focal point where the image is in focus. You can not get clear images if you are closer than the focal point. Some cameras can switch into MACRO mode which will change the focal point down to just a few millimeters for close ups of miniature objects. The icon usually looks like a flower. That is what to look for in a model railroad camera. Also the more light the better. It’s lights, camera, action.
A great topic and plenty of good information in this discussion. I bought this camera for $20 and like others found it doesn't focus up close very well, but it does do a reasonable job of showing off my small layout from a drivers perspective. I am going to build a well wagon to sit it in so I get a lower view.
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
I just purchased a small camera for Boothbay Ralway Village and installed it in a gondola. It so new one of our volunters has run a quick test, and is very excited about the results compaired to our old camrea which died. It is Hi Def with sound.
It brodcasts to a flat screen TV, we still have to figure out video capture from that; the TV has a USB port, so that may be the way to grab the image. Otherwise, the receiver could plug into a VCR, or anything that has RCA plugs on it.
I got it from MicroMark. This is the camerahttp://www.micromark.com/Wireless-Micro-Camera-System-with-Sound-2-4-Ghz
and the power pickup from DCC which elimiates the batteryhttp://www.micromark.com/Battery-Eliminator-for-Micro-Camera
They also have a RTR version wiich comformes to NMRA clerance standardshttp://www.micromark.com/HO-Camera-Car
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I use one of those 'spy' cameras you see on eBay with an SD chip. I'll be happy to share the remarkably good video I get as soon as someone explains how to post a video from Photobucket here...
Lone Wolf and Santa FeSome cameras can switch into MACRO mode which will change the focal point down to just a few millimeters for close ups of miniature objects. The icon usually looks like a flower. That is what to look for in a model railroad camera.
True enough. I have two Canon digicams, a PS A70 that I added the optional macro lens set to) and a PS SX100, which is a wide zoom camera that has the lens and macro digital system built in. They're great when they fit, but...they often just don't on the layout. So no problem including those as part of the conversation, as they're generally much better cameras, especially the lenses, than the tiny ones that can fit where they won't.
AlantrainsI bought this camera for $20 and like others found it doesn't focus up close very well, but it does do a reasonable job of showing off my small layout from a drivers perspective.
Alan,
It does have the right form factor I'd need for HOn3, because I can see the GE 70-tonner sitting behind it, but your concerns on close focusing are noted.
Just for the record, what brand/model camera is it? It looks sorta familiar, but my CRS is not giving me an answer right now...
bigpianoguy I use one of those 'spy' cameras you see on eBay with an SD chip. I'll be happy to share the remarkably good video I get as soon as someone explains how to post a video from Photobucket here...
Should be a option to grab what's called an "embed code" then you just paste it in here with the Video insert option that's in the toolbar here. There will be an option in it to paste the embed code in and then it comes out as an embedded video link.
G PaineIt brodcasts to a flat screen TV, we still have to figure out video capture from that; the TV has a USB port, so that may be the way to grab the image.
George,
Thanks for the links.
I managed to find a USB to composite (R,W,Y) RCA plugs, plus S video, converter for about $6.
http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-USB-2_0-Video-TV-DVD-VHS-Audio-Capture-Adapter-UTV007-p-2758.html?rmmds=myorder
Hi Mike,
I meant to include this.
Camera is a Vivitar DVR 685HD.
Not having a screen is a disadvantage. It's point and shoot and pray.
Has about an hour of battery time.
Thanks for the info.
AlantrainsNot having a screen is a disadvantage. It's point and shoot and pray.
A screen certainly helps with user feedback, but for most tiny cameras, getting enough real estate for a usable screen is going to be a challenge I think. Having no feedback after filming initiation on the SQ8 makes it really mysterious. So if there's not a screen -- and there often won't be -- it's good to have at least a blinking LED or other means to advise if the camera is working is helpful.
Here's one I pulled from my Photobucket file. The focal range seems rather short; about 10 inches in front of the camera. I think that next time I delve into this I'll set up a pilot to put the camera on so I don't get that 'going to hit the corner then whoosh around' effect...also, even though I got the embed link from Pb, I couldn't get it to show up in my post so here's the vid as a link:
http://vid1120.photobucket.com/albums/l490/bigpianoguy/Sheridan%20Layout/Feb0913_zps53b66af2.mp4
bigpianoguyHere's one I pulled from my Photobucket file. The focal range seems rather short; about 10 inches in front of the camera.
That did come out rather better than footage from my SQ8 -- and nicely done whistle effects BTW
I did come across something that might make experimenting with the fixed lens most tiny cams come with, a set of lenses intended to work with your smartphone to extend its pic capabilities, for around $10:
http://www.banggood.com/8-in-1-Super-Fisheye-with-Wide-Angle-Macro-Phone-Lens-kit-for-Universal-Cellphones-p-1127270.html?rmmds=mywishlist
The smartphone option involves a clamp that holds the lens, but the clamp will not work on thicker cameras, I suspect, so a different means of holding the lens to the camera may be required if the clamp can't be bent to suit a thicker case. This is a list of the lens option it allows: the 235°super fisheye, 180° fisheye, 19X Macro Lens, 0.54X Super Wide Angle Lens, 0.67X Wide Lens, Macro, CPL polarizer, Telephone Lens 2X
I may get one of these to see what I can do with it.
Actually Mel, I would like a camera-to-monitor system for all of the hidden track I have. I probably use my SQ8 for a dash cam, or when I'm on my walk. Not to happy with it for model railroad purposes. I need to figure out how I can post my YT video I did with the SQ8, so everyone can see my results.
OK, lets try this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRKGCjFo1q0
I hope no one is affraid of the dark, because about half of this video is in hidden area. I'm going to try a night vision, head on video to see the hidden area.
My experience with the SQ8 can be found here I found it to work really well and I wasn't disappointed: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/28667
Like I said in my earlier post on this, I had the camera facing in to the layout. Maybe I'll try one head on like yours, and see how it does.
mbinsewi Actually Mel, I would like a camera-to-monitor system for all of the hidden track I have. Mike.
Actually Mel, I would like a camera-to-monitor system for all of the hidden track I have.
Thanks Mel. That's seems like a great project, to be able to move the camera! And you are just the gadget guy to do it.
Can't to see what you come up with.
I just did another video using night vision, since I have so much hiddentrack, at least now can see all the way around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1etkP9z3fA
Been fiddling with things today and getting behind on the discussion here, but now have an interesting update.
Mel,
Sounds like a great idea to have a "camera crew" aboard to pan around, could make for even better video.
Youtube has been frustrating me today more than usual, I just finally got to watch some of your videos. Nice-looking layout and your hidden track is much cleaner than mine, sort of like the difference in appearance between the DC Metro and the Boston subway.
I may have a solution for the limited field of focus in the SQ8 that prevents nice closeups. Took the camera apart. Screw on top for the case is obvious and it comes right apart. There are then 2 screws holding the board in, take them out, but be careful here as the battery power stays hooked up unless you desolder the leads. Don't melt things down by shorting something!
You'll need to press gently on the 2 lower IR LEDs on the front of the camera, then the board will pop loose. A small silver plastic fitting that serves as the keys to operate buttons on the board will be loosened as you take the board out. It kinda pivots on/off at the top and the board swings up, installation is doing the opposite.
In the pic below, you can see most of what I referenced, plus a small black disc of plain ol' black construction paper made with a hole punch. The black disc has a pinhole in its center.
A couple of spots of tacky glue and the pinhole lens goes centered over where the stock lens looks out from the case. I did not try to take out the old lens, just doubled the new pinhole lens in front of it. Then look at the lens opening from the front/outside of the case to check on how well centered the pinhole is; adjust it now, if you need to slide it a little to get centered. Eyeball measurements will work to center it for good effect.
This does reduce light coming into the camera. Things look darker and will need some post-production Photoshop work. The video is similar, but I've never PSed video before, so not messing with them yet. Obviously, throwing extra lighting on the scene will help, but when follwing a moving train that's tougher than it sounds.
This shot of the folks in front of the Silverton depot shows how things are in better focus close in with a great depth of field, both thanks to the pinhole lens.
I do wonder if there's a video exposure setting that can be adjusted on board in the camera to adjust the autoexposure parameters? Needs some more work, but was easy and cheap to do so, with observable results.
Thanks Mike. I have opened up the camera, but didn't go as far as you, as I figured my clumsiness with tiny electronics could lead to disaster. Now that I see the camera in "pieces", I know where the slight gost imagery of a circuit board comes from in night vision mode.
Maybe your method would allow the camera to be turned more towards the layout, instead of panaramic views of my basement.
I am starting to rethink my views of this camera, now that I have made a few videos. I think the night vision videos came out the best. I also did a video of going the opposite direction around the layout.
And for all those wondering about all my hidden track, I built the layout so everything comes off in modules. The city scene, the mill and food plant, and the tree covered hill in the corner, all are removable.