BRAKIE Big Boy Forever because "there is a prototype for any everything", Within reason some is just to far fetched to be prototypical--like a 40' boxcar with roof walk high ladders and brake wheel letter for BNSF,CSX or NS in general service. Believability over "there is a prototype for any everything" excuse which is one step above "its my railroad" excuse that doesn't hold water if you say you're modeling CSX or NS in 2014 and using SD70MACs to pull 40' boxcars. or 36' truss rod billboard beer reefers.
Big Boy Forever because "there is a prototype for any everything",
Within reason some is just to far fetched to be prototypical--like a 40' boxcar with roof walk high ladders and brake wheel letter for BNSF,CSX or NS in general service.
Believability over "there is a prototype for any everything" excuse which is one step above "its my railroad" excuse that doesn't hold water if you say you're modeling CSX or NS in 2014 and using SD70MACs to pull 40' boxcars. or 36' truss rod billboard beer reefers.
You're probably right. On the other hand maybe the SD70MACs are pulling some restored 36" billboard beer reefers to attend a antique train exposition at a museum somewhere.
Actually you have some information there in your post that I am casually trying to find a source for to categorize the various rolling stock I have, as I indicated on a few threads I started. Like what you said about, "a 40' boxcar with roof walk high ladders and brake wheel", i.e., all the various details about boxcars, tank cars, gondolas, hoppers, flats etc. that explain the time periods in which they were manufactured, modifications, when scrapped etc.
I have to agree with Larry: There is not a prototype for everything. But that's not the issue. The issue is whether it makes a difference to the individual modeler. The original question had to do with how many people believe era is important to them, and the answer will be different for different people.
For myself, if I found a good package deal on an assortment of model railroad equipment, and had the spare money available, I might go ahead and buy the package. Then I'd identify the stuff I can use and put it on the layout. Then I'd identify the stuff that will fit if I modify it. I'd do the mods and put that on the layout. Then I'd identify the stuff that can't be made to fit, but I like it anyway. That would go into a display case. Then I'd identify the stuff I can't use and don't care about. I'd sell that or give it away.
A few years ago I was at an auction and found a box of Western Maryland RR advertising. At the bottom of that box was a book (an O.R.E.R.) that I really wanted. So I bid on the box until I got it at a reasonable price, kept the book, and donated the papers to the W.M. Historical Society. I got the book I wanted and the W.M. papers went to folks who wanted them. Same can be done with the cabeese: Keep what fits or what you like most; Modify/sell/trade/donate the rest.
'Tain't complicated.
Tom
Big Boy Foreverbecause "there is a prototype for any everything",
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Doughless A modeler can always find a use for few oddball pieces of rolling stock. But if a modeler buys a lot of rolling stock because it is a good deal, then tries to create a premise for the railroad based upon that purchase, there is going to have to be a lot of leeway when it comes to realism. I don't think the problem is that the OP bought cabooses, the problem is that it sounds like he bought 8 of them and they may not all be of the same era. If he is trying to find a storyline that supports a small railroad owning 8 cabooses of differing eras during a period when other railroads don't own any cabooses, there is going to be a suspension of realism in some way. I'd advise to pick an era....then pick 3 cabooses that fit that era...then store the other 5. The problem ends up being that if you never use the other 5, that $20-for-8-cabeese purchase does not look like that great of a deal....it ends up being $20 for 3. That is the problem a lot of us get into. Buy something because it is a good deal, then as we focus more, realize that a lot of the stuff we bought doesn't really fit and just ends up being a waste of money...hence, not a good deal at all. That is a psychological barrier that is difficult to deal with. Have that come-to-heyzoos moment and realize that you are not going to use all of the stuff you bought, and quit racking the brain trying to create a storyline you probably won't be happy with anyway. Having said that...a stone company that has a captive non interchange rail line from quarry to rock yard can use any kind of hopper car. Just shuffling the stone from quarry to yard requires anything that resembles a big bin on wheels. Even wooden hoppers with friction bearing trucks would work...even shuffling over several miles. That's what I do for my short ine because I wanted to use my MDC 40 foot Southern RR hoppers that I put work into building and weathering. I couldn't find an equally realistic scenario for my 40 foot grain box cars, so they stayed in storage for years until I finally gave up on them.
A modeler can always find a use for few oddball pieces of rolling stock.
But if a modeler buys a lot of rolling stock because it is a good deal, then tries to create a premise for the railroad based upon that purchase, there is going to have to be a lot of leeway when it comes to realism.
I don't think the problem is that the OP bought cabooses, the problem is that it sounds like he bought 8 of them and they may not all be of the same era. If he is trying to find a storyline that supports a small railroad owning 8 cabooses of differing eras during a period when other railroads don't own any cabooses, there is going to be a suspension of realism in some way.
I'd advise to pick an era....then pick 3 cabooses that fit that era...then store the other 5.
The problem ends up being that if you never use the other 5, that $20-for-8-cabeese purchase does not look like that great of a deal....it ends up being $20 for 3.
That is the problem a lot of us get into. Buy something because it is a good deal, then as we focus more, realize that a lot of the stuff we bought doesn't really fit and just ends up being a waste of money...hence, not a good deal at all.
That is a psychological barrier that is difficult to deal with.
Have that come-to-heyzoos moment and realize that you are not going to use all of the stuff you bought, and quit racking the brain trying to create a storyline you probably won't be happy with anyway.
Having said that...a stone company that has a captive non interchange rail line from quarry to rock yard can use any kind of hopper car. Just shuffling the stone from quarry to yard requires anything that resembles a big bin on wheels. Even wooden hoppers with friction bearing trucks would work...even shuffling over several miles.
That's what I do for my short ine because I wanted to use my MDC 40 foot Southern RR hoppers that I put work into building and weathering. I couldn't find an equally realistic scenario for my 40 foot grain box cars, so they stayed in storage for years until I finally gave up on them.
Ideally, you think out what you want in era location and operations, study various technical aspects of model RR, draw up your plans on paper or CAD, make your list of tracks and devices needed, design your benchwork, look at the ype of cars you need, types of locomotives. Then start building your benchwork, go out and hand select your rolling stock $15 to $25 a car, for the era and type of operation. Your benchwork, trackwork and wiring is coming together. Scenery is underway, you are trying out your new and accurate era trains onthe bare layout with rising scenery and buildings etc., a regular John Armstrong you are. It's all coming together EXACTLY as you envisioned and carefully planned out.
Realistically, you run across a good deal at a train show or private sale on rolling stock. You can't pass it up, you might not get another chance to get such a deal. You'll deal with the logistics and applications later on. There is probably a way to fit most of what you just bought at a ludicrous price somehow, because "there is a prototype for everything", you just got to find it by looking and asking around.
On my home layout the time period is somewhere between 1950 to 1970, but I'm also a member of a modular club and there, when set up, I run mostly 'modern' trains..., 1990 to present, so I have the best of both worlds. I guess the answer in my case would be no, I don't stick to a definite time period. I like it all!
Jarrell
Big Boy Forever How many here have exact time period accurate rolling stock, according to your layout time period? How many don't or don't really care about time period accuracy on your layout? Just wondering, based on my last couple of threads asking for advice.
How many here have exact time period accurate rolling stock, according to your layout time period?
How many don't or don't really care about time period accuracy on your layout?
Just wondering, based on my last couple of threads asking for advice.
I try to be as close to 1915 as I can. Not always easy and sometime accurate information is diffcult to come by. Part of the charm of period modeling.
- Douglas
Big Boy ForeverAs I dig deeper into the information on train companies, operations and equipment, it gets overwhelming how much there is to learn
The more I learn, the more I find I need to learn.
There are recent studies that suggest that an active mind can offset Alzheimers, hopefully, then I should be OK.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
jmbjmb That's interesting, but I also think not quite so linear as those pictures seem in many areas and eras. We've experienced some big changes in the past 20 years, but there were also places and times that didn't change so rapidly. For example the town where I grew up changed hardly at all for 40-50 years, but then in a span of about 10 years changed so much to be almost unrecognizable. Or in an example of deja vu meets reality, my daughter just started college where I graduated in 1981. While there are some new buildings in parts of campus, most of the core is so unchanged, it was like I had never left. She's living in the same dorm I did and the only change has been the paint color on the walls. Same furniture that was installed when the dorm was built.
That's interesting, but I also think not quite so linear as those pictures seem in many areas and eras. We've experienced some big changes in the past 20 years, but there were also places and times that didn't change so rapidly. For example the town where I grew up changed hardly at all for 40-50 years, but then in a span of about 10 years changed so much to be almost unrecognizable. Or in an example of deja vu meets reality, my daughter just started college where I graduated in 1981. While there are some new buildings in parts of campus, most of the core is so unchanged, it was like I had never left. She's living in the same dorm I did and the only change has been the paint color on the walls. Same furniture that was installed when the dorm was built.
This all gets into the architectural and changing societal aspects of model railroading, in addition to the artistry and engineering, when attempting to model the real world, another feature that makes for a great hobby pursuit.
NittanyLion Exactly. If I went with a sliding ten year scale, that'd take me from 2004 to 2014. 2004 town has parking meters. 2014 town has a little kiosk that you pay with a credit card and prints a slip to put on your dash or signs telling you what number your space is to pay with a smartphone app. Here's some visuals to really show off that "20 years is huge" thing: 1971 - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=132263&nseq=59 1978 - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=357303&nseq=44 It's already a different scene over just seven years 1983 - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=369570&nseq=60 There's the Metro station and the first high rise in the area is going up as it changes from industrial to commercial. In 12 years. Big jump to 2013 - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=466029&nseq=6 VRE didn't even exist in 1991 and there's only three tracks through the station.
Here's some visuals to really show off that "20 years is huge" thing:
1971 - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=132263&nseq=59
1978 - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=357303&nseq=44 It's already a different scene over just seven years
1983 - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=369570&nseq=60 There's the Metro station and the first high rise in the area is going up as it changes from industrial to commercial. In 12 years.
Big jump to 2013 - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=466029&nseq=6 VRE didn't even exist in 1991 and there's only three tracks through the station.
That's interesting; same grassy hill and the buildng and environmental changes around the tracks over 20 years time.Good things to consider when detailing the layout with, signs, buildings etc.
However, in my case at least, I'm more interested in the rolling stock, like box cars, and their use over the years,since we have the 50 year rule, and how older cars can be used at an interchange between a freelance shortline and a class 1
I'm still trying to find which cars of my rolling stock fit the 50 year rule and go from there.
I still see older cars on the BNSF freight line near my house that I thought were obsolete years ago being shuffled around to various industries in the area.
My era is intended to be 1962, but I do adjust as I want. My steam locomotives are as they appeared in the late 1940's. .... In other words, my era is 1945- 1962.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
dehusman What I have found is that the more I research about any particular time, the more changes I see over time. A lot of it is how detailed do you want to be. If you take pretty much any 10 year period the differences between the first year and the last year will be "significant" in the details. Any 20 year period the differences in equipment, scenery and operations could be huge. Case in point. A billboard with a phone number in 1956 might just be a number with no exchange. In 1966 the exchange will be alphanumeric (Kingswood 6 or KI6-xxxx) and in 1976 the number might be pure numbers with an area code (215-546-xxxx). In 1895 most cars will have link and pin couplers and no air brakes, ladders or grab irons on the sides or ends but typically not both. In 1905 cars will have mostly knuckle couplers and air brakes. In 1915 all cars will have knuckle couplers, air brakes and more modern safety appliances and lettering.
What I have found is that the more I research about any particular time, the more changes I see over time. A lot of it is how detailed do you want to be. If you take pretty much any 10 year period the differences between the first year and the last year will be "significant" in the details. Any 20 year period the differences in equipment, scenery and operations could be huge.
Case in point. A billboard with a phone number in 1956 might just be a number with no exchange. In 1966 the exchange will be alphanumeric (Kingswood 6 or KI6-xxxx) and in 1976 the number might be pure numbers with an area code (215-546-xxxx). In 1895 most cars will have link and pin couplers and no air brakes, ladders or grab irons on the sides or ends but typically not both. In 1905 cars will have mostly knuckle couplers and air brakes. In 1915 all cars will have knuckle couplers, air brakes and more modern safety appliances and lettering.
Exactly. If I went with a sliding ten year scale, that'd take me from 2004 to 2014. 2004 town has parking meters. 2014 town has a little kiosk that you pay with a credit card and prints a slip to put on your dash or signs telling you what number your space is to pay with a smartphone app.
I aim to model a fairly specific time - October 1907. But the "stars" of my modeling are a handful of connected narrow gauge shortlines which are freelanced and isolated (i.e., their only connections to the outside world are two interchanges with standard gauge roads). So the equipment for the narrow gauge is intended to be plausible for the period. On the standard gauge, I'll try to be as accurate as possible in order to provide a realistic "anchor" to the real world.
Big Boy Forever Unfortunately for me, I bought cars and locos as I found them for sale at a good price, not considering time era. This is probably cold comfort, but I would suggest that it is a reasonably common problem. Cheers, the Bear.
Big Boy Forever Unfortunately for me, I bought cars and locos as I found them for sale at a good price, not considering time era.
This is probably cold comfort, but I would suggest that it is a reasonably common problem.
Well, i had a rather extensive collection as a teenager, before my long hiatus, 9 locomotives and about 50 freight cars Below is a list of the rolling stock and locos I am still using:
53' flat car (US Army)
Hopper (WM).
Yep. None of the rest of it fit the timeframe or region.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I'm created a completely freelanced Wheeling caboose. So you create what you want.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Shortlines still use cabooses. Some class ones use cabooses on long shoves. Oversized loads also require a caboose. Personally, I would use the cabooses for locals and MOW.
Or just model a museum (like the NC transportation museum at Spencer)
Big Boy Forever Like I said before, I am trying to be as realistic as possible. For me, that makes it satisfying, maybe for others it doesn't matter that much. Everyone has their own idea of fun or what a hobby is, for me it's this. This idea of "realism" for me flys out the window when I see a good deal on equipment at an estate sale or 2nd hand sale. Example is I found nine cabeese of all styles, RTR Athearns with metal wheels, for about $20, and I know the caboose was retired in the 80s. They sure roll nice however. Now I'm researching how to fit them into my freelance RR. I think my shortline still uses a caboose on their trains, since they are not a class 1.
Like I said before, I am trying to be as realistic as possible. For me, that makes it satisfying, maybe for others it doesn't matter that much. Everyone has their own idea of fun or what a hobby is, for me it's this.
This idea of "realism" for me flys out the window when I see a good deal on equipment at an estate sale or 2nd hand sale. Example is I found nine cabeese of all styles, RTR Athearns with metal wheels, for about $20, and I know the caboose was retired in the 80s. They sure roll nice however. Now I'm researching how to fit them into my freelance RR. I think my shortline still uses a caboose on their trains, since they are not a class 1.
IMO, realism is important, very important, but....
frankly, I think you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole so to speak. You did not buy the cabeese for realism, yet you are intent upon finding a realistic scenario for them. Essentially, you are trying to accomplish two goals at the same time......realism and a good deal....without considering realism when you find a good deal. You're putting yourself into an unecessary bind, IMO.
Instead of trying to design a railroad around a $20 expenditure on a few cabeese (or pieces of rolling stock you noted in the other thread), why not settle on your favorite era and pick the cabooses and cars that fit that, and save the rest for some other purpose.
I think you'll find that letting go of those items that don't fit your final plans will be liberating. You won't be spending so much time racking your brain to come up with what is probably an unrealistic scenario in the end. You may never find that perfect fit for using all of your cars and cabooses on your layout and still maintain that level of realism you demand.
Look at it this way, once you settle on a plan, the rolling stock or locos that don't fit the plan can be used to fund purchases that do.
I have 4-4-0's and ten=wheelers pulling wooden cars. I also run stack trains with 4400 HP diesels up front. Rarely do I run them side-by-side.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
SP&S in 60's and I can count the things that don't fit in on my fleet on one hand.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
I model the mid-50's, about a 5 year span is close enough for me. I thought about a specific year, but the amount of custom re-decalling I'd neeed to do makes it more than I really want to do. So I'll for 2-3 years up or down from my base of 1956, and count it good enough.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If you have a particular year in mind, and if you want that "one big encyclopedia", then try to find an O.R.E.R. for that time period, and consult it. The O.R.E.R. is the Official Railway Equipment Register, and it was used by railroad clerks, customers, etc. to identify rolling stock and determine its availability and use. Every North American interchange freight car is listed, with dimensions, capacities, loading restrictions, etc. It looks like a telephone book. It has been published as a periodical since about the beginning of time, and old issues sometimes can be found at RR shows, on ebay, estate sales, etc. You may have to look pretty hard to find the one you want.
The N.M.R.A. republished the January, 1953 issue, and I believe it may still be available from the organization. Since my time period is 1952, I can simply look at my January '53 O.R.E.R. If the car isn't in that book, it probably doesn't fit the layout's time frame.
"Time accuracy" is easier when "you cheat!"
CR&T's circa 1956 allows for motive power flexibility with 1st generation diesel, steam, and electric (PCC - interurban - GG1), not to mention an "I Like Ike" billboard to nail down the year modeled.
...also "the two" secrets:
[1] Freight cars of the 1950s (http://www.kalmbachstore.com/mrpdf036.html).
[2] How to Model Railroads of the 1950s (http://www.kalmbachstore.com/mr9110401.html).
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Like I said before, I am trying to be as realistic as possible. For me, that makes it satisfying, maybe for others it doesn't matter that much. Everyone has their own idea of fun or what a hobby is, for me it's this. This idea of "realism" for me flys out the window when I see a good deal on equipment at an estate sale or 2nd hand sale. Example is I found nine cabeese of all styles, RTR Athearns with metal wheels, for about $20, and I know the caboose was retired in the 80s. They sure roll nice however. Now I'm researching how to fit them into my freelance RR. I think my shortline still uses a caboose on their trains, since they are not a class 1.
The biggest problem in this area of this hobby I'm having now, is determining what era, within the 50 year rule, that each piece of rolling stock fits, so I can justify an interchange scenario on my freelance shortline, with a class one RR. Luckly I have several SD-40-2 diesels, so I know they cover a wide swath of years, some being used today in many train comanies, including class ones. This is why I created the thread on photos "with dates" of rolling stock, so I could hopefully get some photo feedback from some experts here to match my cars to pictures and identify them. Maybe others here could use those photos also.
Too bad there isn't one big encyclopedia of rolling stock that we can access to find this info. As I dig deeper into the information on train companies, operations and equipment, it gets overwhelming how much there is to learn, if you want to stay within the boundries of realism plus all the construction and engineering factors and artistic skills that goes into model railroading per se' by itself. It can get pretty deep.
Hi Big Boy Forever
Quite a lot of people are and some are not.
But all of us strive for a believable model railroad.
There are that many different areas of interest and levels of railroad development tied to the particular modellers interest.
the whole qustion needs to be tailerd to type of model railroad being built.
regards John
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
DoughlessDon't build your layout to justify equipment you bought...that's not the way to do it, IMO.
Excellent advance..A generic layout can be used for several era simply by switching out vehicles-wee folk doesn't stand out as much as (say) 50 era cars and trucks on a 90-95 era layout..Older billboards should be replaced as well but,IMHO and judging by my experience our eyes seem to focus more on locomotives,cars and vehicles..
Big Boy Forever Unfortunately for me, I bought cars and locos as I found them for sale at a good price, not considering time era. So now I have an issue of mixture of time eras with my rolling stock freight cars some of which I'm not sure of the time periods and that is the reason I've been asking trying to get some feedback.
Unfortunately for me, I bought cars and locos as I found them for sale at a good price, not considering time era. So now I have an issue of mixture of time eras with my rolling stock freight cars some of which I'm not sure of the time periods and that is the reason I've been asking trying to get some feedback.
Not really a problem. As you can see, many modelers have more than one era. I like trains of all eras. This is a hobby...not a history class......so I find that excluding trains that I like simply because they are not historically accurate kind of limits the fun.
You probably have one era that is your favorite. Model that and try not to worry about how much stuff from other eras you have collected.
Don't build your layout to justify equipment you bought...that's not the way to do it, IMO. Model the one era you like...then find something to do with the other stuff later. You can either sell the stuff that no longer fits the era, or simply break it out once in a while and run it simply because you like to watch them run.
My modern short line runs Gensets......but I've got a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 simply because I like it.
That's why a dual era layout works well...it allows you to run different equipment. The surrounding structures like the kits offered by Pikestuff and DPM really span many decades so the scenery and supporting stage wouldn't necessarily conflict with either era. However, you may have to swap out vehicles and other details if you're going to be a serious photographer. I am not, so I wouldn't bother.
Indeed..I started my 78-80 modeling by staying on target,then WOW! would ya look at that beautiful Walthers's Ohio Central GP7..I had to buy some 90 era cars to go with it.Then added some CR,NS and CSX units..
Still to fulfill a long time desire I found myself buying 4 Seaboard System GP38-2s then I entered the 80s and had to buy matching cars like Seaboard System,CSX,NS and other cars correct for the 80s.
The good news is a lot of the cars I already owned could be used between modeling eras so,cost was held at a minimum.