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Am I to ConcludeThat Many Modelers Here are Time-Era Accurate?

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Posted by Dusty Solo on Monday, September 1, 2014 4:17 PM

I'm pretty finicky when it comes to keeping  to the late 1940's.  it is the era I relate to most that is why I model to represent that time

This could be a sign of mild OCD. This shows up in other modeling I do coz I don't like mixing up scales either . It's,  1/48 for military aircraft & 1/72 for airliner models. I model 1/43 auto's - all very neat & tidy.

But those are just how I like to do it.

For other people it's not the same & it is OK  to do what makes you feel good and is part of how a

hobby  or interest is enjoyed

Dusty.

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, August 29, 2014 8:07 AM

Speaking of a way to use a caboose in modern times..........

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2225407

 

 

- Douglas

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, August 29, 2014 5:38 AM

Big Boy Forever
Where did you get that information on those box cars? You mean roof walks "Z" shaped?

Some standard 40 and 50' boxcars with roof walks lasted into the late 70s before being pulled out of service.

I suggest looking through photos of SCL,Family Lines,Chessie,BN on the Railroad fallen flag web site.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/

Also

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/default.aspx

Larry

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Posted by jmbjmb on Thursday, August 28, 2014 11:13 PM

Big Boy Forever
 This all gets into the architectural and changing societal aspects of model railroading, in addition to the artistry and engineering, when attempting to model the real world, another feature that makes for a great hobby pursuit.

 

 

You are right on point with that.  That's why I look at my modeling as trying to recreate a time and place that people will feel like they've been there, where things are familiar, but they can't quite place it and dont' know why.  I proto freelance for that reason so I model the familiar without modeling an exact place.  So everyone can feel at home rather than only one person, who happens to come from that town and who can then tell me I got it wrong anyway.

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Posted by wp8thsub on Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:42 PM

Big Boy Forever
Like I said several times now, I need to find a source for rolling stock identification so I can know what era my cars are and where I stand.

These sites have been suggested here and there, but these are the major ones (save to your favorites/bookmarks, as you'll need them often):

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/

http://www.railcarphotos.com/index.php?

http://freight.railfan.ca/

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/railroadList.aspx

Also, for general information, try:

http://www.fcix.info/ref.htm

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/index.htm

If you cannot find a photo of a car on one of the major sites, chances are you're out of luck, but Google may still be your friend.  You can try searching for historical societies, finding old magazine artticles on freight car history, including the out of print magazines on Train Life http://www.trainlife.com/ and/or gaining access to the Morning Sun books on a particular railroad.  You still may end up without a photo for a specific car, and given how often model manufacrturers make schemes up, and even invent entire cars, you'll find that a lot.  

You asked about dates for running boards on house cars.  For gee-whiz purposes here's the regulation on safety appliances http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/231.27 .  Basically a house car (boxcar, reefer) delivered after 10/1/1966 was to have no running board, four-rung ladders, and a low-mounted brake wheel.  Existing cars were to be modified with the running board removed, A end ladders shortened to four rungs, and an L-shaped grab on the roof at the B end replacing the grab that was originally on the running board (if the brakewheel and ladders on the B end remained at their original height [most roads did not lower the brakewheel or B end ladders]).  A yellow label stating "keep off roof no running board" was to be placed on the side of the car adjacent to the B end ladders (decals are available for this).  The initial date set for older cars to be in compliance was in 1974, but that proved unattainable so it was extended to 1983.  Having a few cars with pre-1966 safety appliances is fine during this timeframe, but they'll look out of place later.  I posted photos earlier of what a modified older car looks like.  

Read what you can, absorb what you can from dated photos, and you'll start to get an idea what's appropriate.  From that knowledge, you can make educated guesses about which cars will work, and how they should look.  With many of my cars I had to make the best guess I could based on what photos were available.  Sometimes I find out I guessed wrong but such is life.  Eventually you may find just the right photo, but holding off until you have perfect information is a good way to get frustrated.  Do your best with what you know.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:32 PM

Run what you have, and have fun.  As your knowledge base expands, your equipment roster can change to reflect that expanded knowledge.  As I recently reminded a friend, the prototype police are all in our heads.  You'll sleep better if you remember that.

Tom 

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Posted by Big Boy Forever on Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:24 PM

BRAKIE

Well to address your concern. 40 and 50' cars with high ladder,brake wheel and roof walk can fit into 78/79 and they will look at home with the modern low ladder cars.

As I mention else where..I model 78/79 since 80% of my cars fit that era.

However,when nobody is peeking around the corner  watchin' a Seaboard System GP38-2 magically appears..

Oopsy!

Seaboard System didn't come about until 1980.

 

Where did you get that information on those box cars?

You mean roof walks "Z" shaped?

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:20 PM

Well to address your concern. 40 and 50' cars with high ladder,brake wheel and roof walk can fit into 78/79 and they will look at home with the modern low ladder cars.

As I mention else where..I model 78/79 since 80% of my cars fit that era.

However,when nobody is peeking around the corner  watchin' a Seaboard System GP38-2 magically appears..

Oopsy!

Seaboard System didn't come about until 1980.

Larry

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Posted by Big Boy Forever on Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:15 PM

BRAKIE
 
Big Boy Forever
I've studied several real desert shortlines out west where I live. That's what I'm modeling.

 

Interesting short lines those..

Two of my favorites is Arizona & California and  Arizona Eastern Railway.

BTW.The majority of my cars is Athearn BB,Accurail and Roundhouse.

 

Arizona & California is one, also Apache RR not verbatum replicas, but just as examples or reference for my freelance shortline.

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Posted by Big Boy Forever on Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:09 PM

Doughless
 

 

Absolutely.  I think many of us have been in your shoes.  My original response stated that realisim doesn't even have to be a goal in order for the hobby to be fun.  But speaking from experience, once the bug for realism bites you, it sort of keeps knawing at you until you succumb.

Like beauty, realism can be in the eye of the beholder.  It can be taken as far as you want.  There are modelers who will criticize a company like Exactrail for painting a boxcar for a particular roadname, say NW, when the car has door hinge and end details like a real Southern boxcar, instead of the real NW boxcar.  Some would say that the $40 boxcar is unrealistic because of it. (Is it a good deal then at $25?) That may be taking the line too far.  Others may see the one foot too wide OLDER Athearn boxcars as being no big deal.  (Its just SOME older Athearn boxcars, not all Athearn cars) So the line of realism may vary from person to person, product to product even.

And researching what is real and what isn't, what is plausible and what may not be, is part of the fun too.

My only concern was that I think it is possible that you may never find a plausible scenario for ALL of your cars that you have bought, and that it might discourage you from pressing on.  Its a great hobby.....draw your line of realism wherever makes you happy.  Its okay if you wind up having cars that don't fit your vision.  We all do.

 

I don't expect to be 100% realistic. I'm just trying to get as realistic as possible. The first thing I'm trying to find out is what time period, the cars that I have, fit into. Once I get that taken care of, I can go to the next step.

I had a layout in a train room 34 years ago when my kids were little. I still have some of that gear, some Athearn, others Model Power and AHM, which I need to replace trucks, wheels and couplers. I'd like to super detail a few molded features after I grind them off. I also have several boxes of Athearn gear I bought at an estate sale, all with Kadee couplers. I have a few Bachman engines and about 7 Athearn engines and 3 engine dummies.

All in all I have about 60 frieght cars.

I have a partially built, open grid 5' X 10' inclined track plan mountain logging layout that I never finished with Atlas Code 83 Shinohara Code 70 and Micro Engineering Code 55 track.

Now I'm just doing a few flat modules of a yard and a few industries totalling about 2 X 12 foot long as I may be moving.

Time and money Beer

 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:08 PM

Big Boy Forever
I've studied several real desert shortlines out west where I live. That's what I'm modeling.

Interesting short lines those..

Two of my favorites is Arizona & California and  Arizona Eastern Railway.

BTW.The majority of my cars is Athearn BB,Accurail and Roundhouse.

Larry

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Summerset Ry.


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Posted by howmus on Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:07 PM

On the Seneca Lake, Ontario, & Western RR (SLOW) it is Saturday, August 15, 1925 all the time.....  10:30 in the morning.... Whistling  Partly cloudy skies and 83°F with the possibility of thunderstorms later in the day.

73

Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO

We'll get there sooner or later! 

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:05 PM

Big Boy Forever

Like I said several times now, I need to find a source for rolling stock identification so I can know what era my cars are and where I stand.

I have a few of those Athearn flat cars.

 

Just ask the internet.  There's no one source for all answers.

You've got the car, so you know what it is, what number's on it, what railroad.  That's all you need to go from "I have this CP Rail ore car" to "here's a site that has a picture of one" to "that site had a link to a gallery of pictures of others of the class" to "there's no pictures before 1970 and none after 1998, so it stands to reason they appear in the early 70s and were gone by 99" in under two minutes.

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Posted by Big Boy Forever on Thursday, August 28, 2014 9:51 PM

BRAKIE
 
Big Boy Forever
Well OK, thanks for the detailed advice. In every endeavor there's going to be the ultimate purists "in action" in contrast to the ultimate purists, "in theory". You guys seem to be the purists "in action" actually living the dream.

 

Well,yes one could say that but,know and understand I started studying short lines after I read MR's "A&R A Railroad You Can Model- The Aberdeen & Rockfish" in '65.I buy and retain every special Trains magazine "Short Line & Regional Railroad issues" and every issue that has a short line article plus I own  "American Short Line Railway Guide" Kalmbach 1996.. 

I've spent hours on line looking over short lines web pages and then looking them up on Bing and Google maps.I have visited several short lines located in Ohio.

What can I say? I'm a short line junkie.

 

I've studied several real desert shortlines out west where I live. That's what I'm modeling.

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Posted by Big Boy Forever on Thursday, August 28, 2014 9:49 PM

Like I said several times now, I need to find a source for rolling stock identification so I can know what era my cars are and where I stand.

I have a few of those Athearn flat cars.

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Posted by wp8thsub on Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:56 PM

Big Boy Forever
You guys seem to be the purists "in action" actually living the dream.

...What I'm simply trying to do is, "be as realistic as possible" with the equipment that I have. ...I at least understand that Kadee couplers, and regular wide HO wheels are NOT realistic, but that is all I have, along with the new revelation today, that Athearn cars are too wide to be prototype accurate. All the other details on HO cars, that need to be modified, like, handrails, ladders, steps to be replaced with brass additions etc. is something I'm learning.

...So money gets you realism is really the bottom line.

Whoa - reality check.  Let's take a look at a few things on my roster.  I've used at least some of these before, here and on other sites.  Remember target era is 1978-1982.

At left is a train set Cox car from the 1970s, even has a cast-on running board!  Plenty of older 40' cars like this survived into 1980 or so with running boards.  I adapted it to my era with weathering and some decals for the consolidated stencils, ACI labels and yellow-dot U1 inspection symbols based on photos found online.  I added metal wheelsets and Kadee couplers (I mostly use #5 or #148 standard head size).

In the center is an Atlas car.  Again I added some decals based on photos and replaced couplers.  This car's pretty close to its prototype.

The car at right is from Accurail.  I used a Walthers kit to add some extended cushion draft gear, and yet again some decals, plus new wheelsets.  It's not an especially accurate car, but looks sorta close enough to fool an average viewer because it has a typical period look.

None of these are latest-run expensive cars.  You could probably find examples of the Cox or Accurail cars at a swap meet for reasonably cheap prices.  I've had that old Cox boxcar since I was a kid.

This car was built from a Front Range kit.  It was a bargain-bin purchase of a roadname and kit variety that wasn't selling and I didn't pay much for it (under $10).  Due to the kit's design, I could modify the ladders to match prototype photos of similar cars, and easily leave the running board off.  Add the usual decals, wheels, couplers and weathering and it fits right in.  I also mounted some wire grabs on the roof and ends.  It's probably not quite accurate either as I couldn't find a matching photo anywhere, but again looks close enough to seem right to most viewers.

This car is a 1990s vintage MDC kit, with the too-wide carbody and cast-on details.  It resembles common cars in the area and era I model, so once again some decals and weathering, plus new wheels and couplers finish it.

This blue box Athearn flat got some weathering on the deck to look more like wood, and the decals/wheelsets/couplers like the others.  Prototype photos suggested body color trucks were appropriate so I painted them , and final weathering will blend eveything.

This car was free.  Somebody had the kit sitting in a box, decided he didn't want it, and gave it to me.  Athearn's 50' flat isn't a very close model of anything, but as with the others I can fake a period look and put it to use.

Era-conscious modeling doesn't mean you have to engage in extensive re-work of cars, or buy the latest expensive stuff.  Selecting likely candidates, and judiciously employing decals and weathering can yield a sufficiently convincing fleet for many of us.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:47 PM

Big Boy Forever
Well OK, thanks for the detailed advice. In every endeavor there's going to be the ultimate purists "in action" in contrast to the ultimate purists, "in theory". You guys seem to be the purists "in action" actually living the dream.

Well,yes one could say that but,know and understand I started studying short lines after I read MR's "A&R A Railroad You Can Model- The Aberdeen & Rockfish" in '65.I buy and retain every special Trains magazine "Short Line & Regional Railroad issues" and every issue that has a short line article plus I own  "American Short Line Railway Guide" Kalmbach 1996.. 

I've spent hours on line looking over short lines web pages and then looking them up on Bing and Google maps.I have visited several short lines located in Ohio.

What can I say? I'm a short line junkie.

Larry

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Summerset Ry.


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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, August 28, 2014 7:48 PM

Big Boy Forever

To:

Doughless

Trainnut1250

Wp8thsub

Dehusman

Brakie

 

Well OK, thanks for the detailed advice. In every endeavor there's going to be the ultimate purists "in action" in contrast to the ultimate purists, "in theory". You guys seem to be the purists "in action" actually living the dream.

In my case, I don't have all the fine, intricate detailed knowledge about the many aspects of train operation, equipment, cars and their eras etc., to the extent that you do.

What I'm simply trying to do is, "be as realistic as possible" with the equipment that I have.

First I need to categorize "what I have" before I can move on to the next step, and that is what I'm trying to do here with these various related threads, and suposedly, this is the forum to get some of that information.

I at least understand that Kadee couplers, and regular wide HO wheels are NOT realistic, but that is all I have, along with the new revelation today, that Athearn cars are too wide to be prototype accurate. All the other details on HO cars, that need to be modified, like, handrails, ladders, steps to be replaced with brass additions etc. is something I'm learning.

If I could know that what cars I have is of a particular era or time period, then I could move to the next step.

That's what I'm trying to find out.

 

 

Absolutely.  I think many of us have been in your shoes.  My original response stated that realisim doesn't even have to be a goal in order for the hobby to be fun.  But speaking from experience, once the bug for realism bites you, it sort of keeps knawing at you until you succumb.

Like beauty, realism can be in the eye of the beholder.  It can be taken as far as you want.  There are modelers who will criticize a company like Exactrail for painting a boxcar for a particular roadname, say NW, when the car has door latch and end details like a real Southern boxcar, instead of the real NW boxcar.  Some would say that the $40 boxcar is unrealistic because of it. (Is it a good deal then at $25 some would ask) That may be taking the line too far.  Others may see the one foot too wide OLDER Athearn boxcars as being no big deal.  (Its just SOME older Athearn boxcars, not all Athearn cars) So the line of realism may vary from person to person, product to product even.

And researching what is real and what isn't, what is plausible and what may not be, is part of the fun too.

My only concern was that I think it is possible that you may never find a plausible scenario for ALL of your cars that you have bought, and that it might discourage you from pressing on.  Its a great hobby.....draw your line of realism wherever makes you happy.  Its okay if you wind up having cars that don't fit your vision.  We all do.

- Douglas

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Posted by Big Boy Forever on Thursday, August 28, 2014 7:30 PM

To:

Doughless

Trainnut1250

Wp8thsub

Dehusman

Brakie

 

Well OK, thanks for the detailed advice. In every endeavor there's going to be the ultimate purists "in action" in contrast to the ultimate purists, "in theory". You guys seem to be the purists "in action" actually living the dream.

In my case, I don't have all the fine, intricate detailed knowledge about the many aspects of train operation, equipment, cars and their eras etc., to the extent that you do.

What I'm simply trying to do is, "be as realistic as possible" with the equipment that I have.

First I need to categorize "what I have" before I can move on to the next step, and that is what I'm trying to do here with these various related threads, and suposedly, this is the forum to get some of that information.

I at least understand that Kadee couplers, and regular wide HO wheels are NOT realistic, but that is all I have, along with the new revelation today, that Athearn cars are too wide to be prototype accurate. All the other details on HO cars, that need to be modified, like, handrails, ladders, steps to be replaced with brass additions etc. is something I'm learning.

If I could know that what cars I have is of a particular era or time period, then I could move to the next step.

That's what I'm trying to find out.

Of course, "funds" to spend on getting the Model Railroading accuracy scenario is always an issue for anyone.

I don't have thousands to spend on brass equipment, and have seen the debates about the Athearn Big Boy and Marklin Big Boy being truly realistic, FOR EXAMPLE. So money gets you realism is really the bottom line.

Of course I already know someone is going to say, "NO, that is not true"...that's how it usually shakes out.

 

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Posted by Big Boy Forever on Thursday, August 28, 2014 7:12 PM

BRAKIE
 
Big Boy Forever
On the other hand maybe the SD70MACs are pulling some restored 36" billboard beer reefers to attend a antique train exposition at a museum somewhere.

 

Plausible believability like all those cab units that was deadheaded to Spencer N.C.

Those old time reefers would need to meet all of today's FRA requirements concerning safety and interchange.

That would be kinda of neat to see such a gathering of beer reefers then have Southern #630 to pull them for a photo run by.

 

[quote user="BRAKIE"]

 
 

 

Yeah, Spencer NC train show, was what I had in mind.

The , "FRA requirements concerning safety and interchange." is somethign I'm trying to get a handle on, since my mythical shortline needs to interchange witha class 1.

AND as I said, I'm trying to learn what cars I already have, would realistically be able to exchange with a class 1.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, August 28, 2014 6:24 PM

wp8thsub
and the freight cars better be compliant (and if the class ones in your era are loading grain in 100-ton hoppers, or coal in 125-ton gons, your line will too if you want it to look right).

As I mention before there lays a modern short line problem that is not easily fixed unless the short line request a grant for refurbishing the track but,that can be turn down for a number of reasons including the weight limit on the line's bridges..

Simply put many of today's short lines can not handle those heavier cars due to their track which consist of older light jointed rail and has FRA restricted weight limits.

Modeling a realistic short line requires more then just freight car knowledge and it requires serious study long before one lays the first piece of track.

Even the type of industries being served will depend on location of the purposed short line.

My layout,my rule doesn't really apply if one is serious about modeling a short line.

Larry

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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, August 28, 2014 4:24 PM

Big Boy Forever
Realistically, you run across a good deal at a train show or private sale on rolling stock. You can't pass it up, you might not get another chance to get such a deal.
 

 
If its not in your era and not appropriate for your chosen locale then why is is such a "good deal"?
 
Its not a "good deal", its just an impulse purchase.  If Iam really interested in a specific era and locale then I tell myself that's a great deal if I were modeling that, but I'm not, so I put it back on the table and spend my money on something I really need rather than wasting it on something that doesn't fit  my vision and having to concoct an edge case to cover the "good buy".
 
Before all the "my railroad my rules" guys start piling on, I'm talking about somebody who has a firm vision of a specific era and vision.  If you are an anything goes modeler, sure buy anything you want, its your railroad.  But if you say you want to be prototypical and then buy a whole bunch of unprototypical stuff, guess what, you really aren't all that focused on being prototypical.  Nothing wrong with being freelance, I've built freelance layouts numerous times.
 
 
There is probably a way to fit most of what you just bought at a ludicrous price somehow, because "there is a prototype for everything", you just got to find it by looking and asking around.

 

Well, really there isn't a prototype for everything.  There are a whole bunch of one off edge cases that only happen under a very limited set of circumstances at one spot.  What happens are modelers string together several very improbable one off things together and then decide because they all existed separately in different eras and locales, for different reasons, then they are "prototypical" as a collection in the same era and locale without the supporting reasons.  Not so much.

Once again before all the "my railroad my rules" guys start piling on, I'm talking about somebody who says they are being prototypical of a specific era and vision. If you are an anything goes modeler, sure, string together all the LDE's you want.

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Posted by wp8thsub on Thursday, August 28, 2014 4:23 PM

Big Boy Forever
...as I said several times, "I'm trying to be as realistic as possible". What "ain't possible", would probably fit into the gray areas of period accuracy that no one could confirm for sure, one way or another. A freelance shortline fits the bill. That fabricated shortline, interchanging with a realistic class one is the problem.

I'll address this point separately.  The typical shortline will have a minimal range of equipment.  While modelers sometimes like to create freelanced empires to use whatever cars they want, a real shortline is more likely to have a limited number or cars, most likely of only a few types.  If you're modeling the "incentive per diem" era of the 1970s, you may have a fleet of identical new boxcars that would overfill every inch of track your line has - investors financed those for the free-runner fleet.   In another scenario your railroad may rely solely on cars interchanged with the class ones, and own nothing beyond a few locos (and if the era or other circumstances determine it, cabooses).  Since your earlier posts have suggested a modern~ish era, you're likely going to be switching mostly cars belonging to the class ones or contemporary lease fleets.

A shortline handling lumber for some mills might have double door boxcars, bulkhead flats, and wood chip gons.  A granger road may have covered hoppers to serve on-line elevators.  They're probably not making money just off short-haul business, so they need to interchange with the rest of the rail network, and the freight cars better be compliant (and if the class ones in your era are loading grain in 100-ton hoppers, or coal in 125-ton gons, your line will too if you want it to look right).  If you desire plausibility, without having to explain everything that's atypical away, a ragtag fleet of old cars of various types (e.g. some billboard reefers here, 40' AAR boxcars there, 50-ton coal hoppers, etc.) isn't going to pass muster.

 

Rob Spangler

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Posted by wp8thsub on Thursday, August 28, 2014 3:48 PM

Doughless
What I am reading is that you actually have two (at least) aspects of the hobby that you enjoy: 1) Finding a good deal 2) Having a realistic layout.

I'm merely pointing out that there may come a day where you'll realize that maybe those to aspects don't necessarily complement each other.

I pulled out only the quote above, but Doughless is dispensing some good advice throughout.  *EDIT* Looks like my typing this out coincided with the next post from Trainnut1250 too.

Most of us started out with no real understanding of what equipment details or paint schemes made for accurate models.  Over time, some hobbyists like to start learning about prototype-specific, or at least proto-plausible, modeling.  Some don't care and for them that's fine.

One thing I see over and over, particularly on this forum, is new~ish hobbyists who want to learn it all NOW, and want other forum members to provide the answers.  Neither is realistic.  Think about college; there's a reason they make sure you master something like math 101 before enrolling in advanced quantitative analysis.

There are useful books and sites out there on freight car history.  Part of learning is seeing cars in context and noting what a whole train looked like for a given era.  The Morning Sun books on freight car history and rosters are good to review.  The information on sites like Freight Cars Illustrated http://www.fcix.info/ can be digested as you're able.  Older issues of magazines like CTC Board, Railroads Illustrated, Trains, and so on can be read.

As you gain an appreciation of what you're looking for, you can better identify the real bargain purchases as you'll know what fits your layout and what doesn't.  If you can't use it, a particular car may not be a bargain for you at any price.  If you're like me, you'll find that much of what you had at first isn't at all useful in the long run.  The era or details of a car or loco won't make sense for the era you've defined.  It's tough to approach the situation backwards - evaluating what you have and attempting to fit it into a plausible scenario.  That scenario may not exist (i.e. there isn't "a prototype for everything").  Determine the era and locale that provide you with the most reward and adjust your roster from there over time.  This may be a gradual process, and needn't be frustrating.  You can draw the line at any level of knowledge.

As someone who tries for more or less era specific modeling (1978-1982), the biggest benefit for learning about the prototype is that it controls my spending.  I limit purchases to what works for my layout.  While that leaves out a lot of cool  stuff, I don't feel shortchanged by missing out on something when I know it won't fit.  I find myself skipping those "good deals" that I can't possibly use.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by trainnut1250 on Thursday, August 28, 2014 3:35 PM
Big Boy,
You are in the beginning stages of what many of us have been through.  As Doughless has laid out pretty clearly, it is not always possible to reconcile a “good deal” and your “realistic as possible” approach.  The key point here is that it is bothering you that the equipment you picked up on the “good deal” doesn’t fit the era.  This is the beginning of the process of figuring out how much the prototype matters to you and how far down the prototype modeler road you will go. 
When you say “I’m trying to be as realistic as possible”, you will have to define for yourself what that means.  The first step is to learn what the real railroads do (or did) in regards to the items or practices in question.  Then of course you can decide how closely you want to follow that prototype.
Once you start looking carefully at the prototype, it is hard not to notice era inaccuracies.  It can be somewhat of a curse as there is no going back. Same goes for oversize or inaccurate parts.  I completely changed from a “run any good deal type of modeler” to a more specific approach to era and prototype.  This process took years.  There are very few pieces of original “good deal” equipment left on my railroad.  They have all been replaced with more accurate models that reflect the era and prototypes I am modeling.
Since adopting this approach, I have passed up lots of “killer deals” simply because they don’t fit the roads or era that I model.  I must say that it is easier now to walk through a train show or a hobby shop and not spend all my cash, but it seems when I do find stuff I want, the item is usually not on sale… 
My reasons for getting more prototype influence in my modeling are not really a fascination with a specific railroad (although I do have some favorites), it is more about trying to create a scene that looks as realistic as possible.  I have found the best way to increase realism is to look to the prototype.  Things generally look more real if they are reflecting something that existed 1:1.  I have taken the prototype approach and mixed various lines and locations to create a freelance railroad that hopefully looks realistic. 
 
Your mileage may vary,
Guy

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, August 28, 2014 12:42 PM

Big Boy Forever
 
 

 

 

 

 

Ideally, you think out what you want in era location and operations, study various technical aspects of model RR, draw up your plans on paper or CAD, make your list of tracks and devices needed, design your benchwork, look at the ype of cars you need, types of locomotives. Then start building your benchwork, go out and hand select your rolling stock $15 to $25 a car, for the era and type of operation. Your benchwork, trackwork and wiring is coming together. Scenery is underway, you are trying out your new and accurate era trains onthe bare layout with rising scenery and buildings etc., a regular John Armstrong you are. It's all coming together EXACTLY as you envisioned and carefully planned out.

Realistically, you run across a good deal at a train show or private sale on rolling stock. You can't pass it up, you might not get another chance to get such a deal. You'll deal with the logistics and applications later on. There is probably a way to fit most of what you just bought at a ludicrous price somehow, because "there is a prototype for everything", you just got to find it by looking and asking around.

 

Ideally, yes, we all want it to be planned perfectly and never have to redo anything.  We all know that it doesn't work that way.

What I am reading is that you actually have two (at least) aspects of the hobby that you enjoy: 1) Finding a good deal 2) Having a realistic layout.

I'm merely pointing out that there may come a day where you'll realize that maybe those to aspects don't necessarily complement each other.  Maybe they are separate and distinct parts of the hobby that you enjoy equally, but they can't be married.  Speaking from experience here, I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about fitting every piece of rolling stock you buy onto the layout...if you plan on settling into one specific time period.

That probably feeds into a lot of modelers who have dual era layouts, or multimple era layouts, or layouts where the era spans a long time. They have the options to run many things they have bought without having to suspend reality a lot.

Yes, it is difficult to find a single source that answers all of the questions about rolling stock and their time periods. 

What you will also find is that a lot of model makers paint their products with railroad names that don't correspond to anything that railroad actually ran in the real world, making the car itself unrealistic for any time period...if you choose to get that picky.

Another issue is the possible inaccuracy of the basic dimensions of the car or locomotive model to begin with.  There are certain versions of Athearn and old MDC boxcars that are a scale foot too wide than the prototype.  Is this a big deal? When you place it in a train where the other boxcars are of proper scale width, yes, the wider ones stick out quite badly. 

When I learned of this width issue, I went to the basement to check and see if I had any.  Yep, all of them were the ones that were too wide.  I bought them during my time of the hobby where I bought stuff because it was a good deal. 

Then I realize the guy who sold them to me probably got more concerned about realism on his layout and sold them at a "good" price because they weren't that realistic in the first place........he knew and I didn't...... just sayin'  

 

- Douglas

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    October 2001
  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, August 28, 2014 11:57 AM

Big Boy Forever
On the other hand maybe the SD70MACs are pulling some restored 36" billboard beer reefers to attend a antique train exposition at a museum somewhere.

Plausible believability like all those cab units that was deadheaded to Spencer N.C.

Those old time reefers would need to meet all of today's FRA requirements concerning safety and interchange.

That would be kinda of neat to see such a gathering of beer reefers then have Southern #630 to pull them for a photo run by.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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    August 2013
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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, August 28, 2014 11:45 AM

If it's realism you want, then those 36' billboard reefers had better be equipped with modern roller bearing trucks, steel underframes, etc. if they're moving on a major modern road.Smile

Tom

  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 372 posts
Posted by Big Boy Forever on Thursday, August 28, 2014 11:29 AM

ACY

I have to agree with Larry:  There is not a prototype for everything.  But that's not the issue.  The issue is whether it makes a difference to the individual modeler.  The original question had to do with how many people believe era is important to them, and the answer will be different for different people.

Tom

 
I see what you're saying. In my case, as I said several times, "I'm trying to be as realistic as possible".
What "ain't possible", would probably fit into the gray areas of period accuracy that no one could confirm for sure, one way or another. A freelance shortline fits the bill. That fabricated shortline, interchanging with a realistic class one is the problem.

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