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Is there a Shortage of Passenger Cars on the Market

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Monday, September 18, 2017 12:01 PM

BLI released a 4-6-2 Pacific lettered for MKT, Some heavyweights should also be released under that name to go with it.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 1:53 PM

ManOWar
......in the real world, there were hundreds if not thousands of railroad specific passenger cars, wooden to steel heavyweight right up to stainless steel.....   

 
That's the main reason why no manufacturer could possibly be expected to cover them all.  While there are some road-specific cars available, they're usually for large (and frequently modelled) roads.  For everybody else, consider yourself lucky if they choose to offer one of them as a stand-in done your road's paint scheme.
 
ManOWar
.......My idea was to give the modeler some latitude in creating a specific car for their particular railroad they were modeling or to allow some very creative freelancing.  The sections could be combined like the modular building walls offered by Walther’s and DPM.  With a variety of lengths, windows, doors, and blanks, anything from 50’ right up the 85’ full size what ever could be constructed.  Got a lot of polite platitudes and innovative idea, but not interested at the time.
 

I'm not surprised that there was little interest from the manufacturers.  With the cars which they currently do offer and after-market parts from New England Rail Services, Bethlehem Car Works, Cal-Scale, PSC, and others, a modeller can create his own modular car - an X-Acto knife and a razor saw and you're on your way.
The other issue is that there are fewer and fewer of us out there willing to do this kind of work, and of those who do, how many cars are they going to build?  Not likely a market big enough to justify the investment needed.

There are, I think, the materials available to build a model of most road-specific passenger cars, but few willing to invest the time, effort, and money needed.  I've done a few myself, mostly for others, as mine are mostly free-lanced, but if I want a model of a real car, I build it.  Athearn and Rivarossi usually provide the roofs, and I add whatever's needed to make it into a car.  My road runs more head-end stuff than coaches, but I do enjoy building a few cars to match prototype ones found in photos:





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Posted by ManOWar on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 3:23 AM
No you are not going crazy.  This topic has been a point of contention with me for many years now.  Yes, there are “some” passenger cars out there.  Unfortunately, in the real world, there were hundreds if not thousands of railroad specific passenger cars, wooden to steel heavyweight right up to stainless steel.  My biggest gripe is there is no Budd corrugated side combine baggage-coach available in either HO or N scale; along with a heavyweight steel combine baggage-RPO-coach in HO scale (Model Power has a PRR prototype in N scale).  While Walther’s, Con-Cor, Athearn, Atlas have tried valiantly over the years (oh yes don’t forget AHM also), there are just too many variants so they pick and produce the most common and leave it up to us the modeler to “modify” or kitbash to achieve a specific prototype.
 
This may or may not be the appropriate place to bring this side topic up, however, years ago I pitched a proposal to Athearn and Con-Cor for a heavyweight passenger car sides in modular sections.  My idea was to give the modeler some latitude in creating a specific car for their particular railroad they were modeling or to allow some very creative freelancing.  The sections could be combined like the modular building walls offered by Walther’s and DPM.  With a variety of lengths, windows, doors, and blanks, anything from 50’ right up the 85’ full size what ever could be constructed.  Got a lot of polite platitudes and innovative idea, but not interested at the time
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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 3:17 AM

Yep, those are the ones.  Big Smile  One of the B-units had a Lindsay power truck, while the other and the two A-units were dummies.  With brass rail (on fibre ties) and brass wheels on the power truck, everything had to be well-cleaned for reliable operation.  Besides the diaphragms, all were equipped with Kadee K-type couplers.
I eventually re-painted the locos in CPR maroon and grey, then again later for my free-lanced road, as seen here:


Wayne

 

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Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:48 AM

Wayne,

How about, dese one's?: Big Smile

http://hoseeker.net/lindsay/lindsayathearndiagrampg1.jpg

Frank

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Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:37 AM

Wayne,

Thanks for that info. My memory banks are just a little too worn, to remember who made them.

Did your Globe F's look like this:

http://hoseeker.net/Globe/globeaf7adummydiagram.jpg

Frank

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:19 AM

zstripe
...soft rubber diaphrams with metal ends, it elludes me to remember who made those then...

Frank, those diaphragms were made by MHP, in Rochester, New York.  My first diesels, an A-B-B-A set of Globe F-units, in Santa Fe Warbonnet paint, were equipped with them.  They looked good and worked well, too.  I still have at least one pair of them.  Big Smile


Wayne

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Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 1:28 AM

Sheldon,

I can attest to what you are saying. In the late 50's early 60's I had quite a few Athearn BB HW's in the 80ft range, six wheel coupler mounted trucks, that would track very well on 18'' and 22'' radius curves, they would run even better, if you filed down the flange on the center wheels, quite easy to do,they were plastic. The Rivarossi HW's were just a little longer with metal wheel sets. That was rolling on Brass hand laid code 100 rail, not flex track, soft rubber diaphrams with metal ends, it elludes me to remember who made those then, didn't look all that bad, that was also with Horn-Hook coupler's, they all had added weight of course.

''Happy New Year,All''

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 12:23 AM

In my opinion, the best "shorty" paasenger cars out there are the Rivarossi 60' heavyweights and the Athearn BB 71' heavyweight and streamlined cars.  

While I have steadily moved to convert all of my passenger car equipment in recent years to the 80' to 85' models offfered by Walthers and Rapido, the old shorties still run best on track with less than 28" radius curves.

Rich

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 12:00 AM

dome_lounge

Fergie,

Two points of caution mixing cars from Branchline & Athearn;
1. The Athearn cars are  72 scale feet - considerably shorter than the Branchline. You could change the trucks to four wheel ones, then claim the Observation is a Business Car, like this one:

2. The shades of green used by the two manufacturers may be substantially different; if that is the case, and it bothers you, but the 72 foot length does not, you could get a complete set of Athearn cars.

Jerry

 

Jerry,

If you do some research on the subject, you will find that in the heavyweight era passenger cars came in lots of different lengths.

Yes, the Athearn cars are 72' - Yes they are "freelanced" and compressed. But in fact there were many coaches in the 70-75' "range", and even a few diners, business cars, parlor cars, etc, that were less than 80'.

YES, all Pullman sleepers were longer, but not all of them were exactly the same length - most measured 82'-5" buffer to buffer, making the car itself only about 80', but some were longer, some were a foot or two shorter.

Other Pullman built diners, observations, etc were typically 83-6 - but not always.

Most all head end equipment - baggage cars, baggage/RPO combines, etc, were around 70'.

"Harriman" cars were 60' and 65' and ran intermixed with longer cars on all the roads that owned them.

So there is no reason to be concerned with exact car lengths if the car is freelanced in the first place?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by jecorbett on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:16 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
 
jecorbett

What I would like to see is some reliable mid-range heavyweight coaches to build a fleet of commuter cars. I thought the Bachmann cars would fit the bill but their performance is rather poor due to stiff trucks and I've tried to rework them without much luck. Lots of derailments. The only other name that comes to mind is Athearn and their entire line is either Sold Out or Due in August, which means sometime after that. I'm not looking for something high end with a lot of detail. Just something that would look halfway decent and operate reliably.

 

 

 

Athearn blue box kits can always be found on Ebay. The new RTR cars are the same as the older kits - and Athearn sells the newer, nicer metal wheelsets for drop in replacement of the older metal/plastic combo wheels.

And the Athearn cars can be easily detailed just enough to make them very nice. You might have to get into painting and lettering......

What roadname/paint scheme are yo looking for?

Sheldon

 

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
 
 

Athearn blue box kits can always be found on Ebay. The new RTR cars are the same as the older kits - and Athearn sells the newer, nicer metal wheelsets for drop in replacement of the older metal/plastic combo wheels.

And the Athearn cars can be easily detailed just enough to make them very nice. You might have to get into painting and lettering......

What roadname/paint scheme are yo looking for?

Sheldon

 
I'm a freelancer so roadname is not important. Standard Pullman Green will work fine. I can always remove whatever lettering is there and replace with my own decals. I'd like to get about 10-12 coaches for my commuter operation. I'll check out ebay to see what I can find there.
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Posted by dome_lounge on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:03 PM

Fergie,

Two points of caution mixing cars from Branchline & Athearn;
1. The Athearn cars are  72 scale feet - considerably shorter than the Branchline. You could change the trucks to four wheel ones, then claim the Observation is a Business Car, like this one:

2. The shades of green used by the two manufacturers may be substantially different; if that is the case, and it bothers you, but the 72 foot length does not, you could get a complete set of Athearn cars.

Jerry

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:18 PM

Fergie, depending on how much work you're willing to do, the old Rivarossi cars can be made into very good representations of many CNR cars.  I have done quite a few for a very good friend who is a CN modeller.

The Rivarossi Pullman observation is a decent stand-in for several CN cars, and can be modified into very close copies using parts from New England Rail Services and Precision Scale.

While it's not a car commonly seen in most CNR trains, their Mountain Observation cars can be done using the Rivarossi coach:


While this car was done for my own free-lance road, it's loosely based on CN's Parlour/Buffet car "Amethyst".  It's a Rivarossi Pullman, with parts from NERS to alter the windows:

 

Another car from the Rivarossi coach, an Express Horse car, is a fairly straightforward conversion, :


You should be able to find used Walthers or Branchline coaches on-line, and while they may not be CN cars, most in Pullman Green could be re-lettered.  Otherwise, you may need to re-paint.  Otherwise, the Rivarossi Pullman can be converted into several variations of CNR coaches using New England Rail Services windows - they come in several styles and sizes.  Additional underbody detail is also available from them and Precision Scale.


Wayne

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Posted by Fergmiester on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 12:53 PM

Carey nice to see you too! I know it's been awhile but life seems to get in the way on a ongoing basis!

Jecorbet and Sheldon thanks for re-directing me to Athearn. I searched through there site and found what I'm looking for... Unfortunately as Je pointed out, it won't be available until August 2014. So I will probably see it Christmas next year!

Fergie

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 12:43 PM

jecorbett

What I would like to see is some reliable mid-range heavyweight coaches to build a fleet of commuter cars. I thought the Bachmann cars would fit the bill but their performance is rather poor due to stiff trucks and I've tried to rework them without much luck. Lots of derailments. The only other name that comes to mind is Athearn and their entire line is either Sold Out or Due in August, which means sometime after that. I'm not looking for something high end with a lot of detail. Just something that would look halfway decent and operate reliably.

 

Athearn blue box kits can always be found on Ebay. The new RTR cars are the same as the older kits - and Athearn sells the newer, nicer metal wheelsets for drop in replacement of the older metal/plastic combo wheels.

And the Athearn cars can be easily detailed just enough to make them very nice. You might have to get into painting and lettering......

What roadname/paint scheme are yo looking for?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by jecorbett on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:17 AM

What I would like to see is some reliable mid-range heavyweight coaches to build a fleet of commuter cars. I thought the Bachmann cars would fit the bill but their performance is rather poor due to stiff trucks and I've tried to rework them without much luck. Lots of derailments. The only other name that comes to mind is Athearn and their entire line is either Sold Out or Due in August, which means sometime after that. I'm not looking for something high end with a lot of detail. Just something that would look halfway decent and operate reliably.

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 10:16 AM

gmpullman

FWIW...

MTH is supposed to be producing a line of heavyweights. I don't see any coaches or diners but they may be worth a look when they hit the streets.

They were due in September. http://www.mthtrains.com/sites/default/files/catalog_files/2014_ho_v_1/index.html

Go to page 82/83.

Happy Modeling! Ed

Fergy,

I will do my best to inquire about that with the MTH rep, if you'd like.  Just let me know what you'd want to know from them.  And, if they have some prototypes there at the show of the heavyweights, I'll see if I can take some pics, as well.

Tom

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Posted by cjcrescent on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:06 AM

Fergy;

Nice to "hear" from you again! May I make a suggestion. Look for the older Walthers passnger car kits. The ones with the metal sides. They made several versions of Pullman manufactured heavyweight Obs, and these kits are very easily upgraded to "present day" detail with some "sweat equity", ie work.

I've been running the old AHM/IHC heavyweights on my Crescent Limited, but as I find the proper Pullmans for the train, via the Walthers kits, I replace the plastic cars with the Walthers. You may want to check this out. I've paid as much as $30 for one kit, but also as little as $10 for 3 others, that are now a part of the train.

Looking for OOP kits for specific cars is many times quicker and cheaper than looking for a RTR, that doesn't exsist.

Here's a picture of the Pullman John T Morgan, that no one yet except Walthers had made. Its a 12 sect Pullman with 4 separate wash/rest/bath rooms, 2 at each end.

The door at the nerest end appears bent, but I can assure you that its not. It has, however come loose from the end, and needs to be fixed. The roof can also come off so later I can add an interior, and can get rid of those frosted windows. That tells me the car doesn't have an interior yet.

Carey

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:04 AM

FWIW...

MTH is supposed to be producing a line of heavyweights. I don't see any coaches or diners but they may be worth a look when they hit the streets.

They were due in September. http://www.mthtrains.com/sites/default/files/catalog_files/2014_ho_v_1/index.html

Go to page 82/83.

Happy Modeling! Ed

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Posted by Fergmiester on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 6:39 AM

Thank You for your responses! I've found them all very enlightening and realized afterwards I should have explained my own personal dilemma in detail before posting.  Binder001 hit the nail on the head with his comment, Andre I should have said what I was looking for and Tom thanks for jumping in with your comment as it was also very apres-po.

When I started building "My Empire" I didn't think I'd be going with passenger service except for a RDC or two car consist. However when Rapido started manufacturing CN cars it turned my head and some of the gears started to loosen up... (never a good thing!) As each car became available, and I started hauling longer passenger trains it was apparent the single track mainline and 24" curves had to go! They are now gone and now I find myself into a whole new world of the passenger train, which I know little of.

I do have an assortment of old AHM Heavy Weights but they are crude by to-days standards, to say the least. I do have 3 Branchline Sleepers but because of availability of other heavyweight cars I am restricted (other releases are pending).

What I am looking for specifically and was the reason for my posting this was this: CN did not have Budd Observation/Solarium Cars, what they did, so I'm told, was have a Heavy Weight Observation Car car at the rear of the train consist of Budd cars.

So what I'm looking in particular is a highly detailed, not in brass, green livery heavy weight CN Observation car, which none can be found! Walthers did make them but they are all sold out Crying

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Posted by Tracklayer on Monday, December 30, 2013 9:17 PM

Fergmiester

Is it me or is there a shortage of high quality HO passenger cars on the market? I searched high and low this morning for a CN Heavy Weight Passenger car. checked Walthers, checked Branchline, checked Ebay and called a couple of LHS' and Nada. What I found was there seems to be a shortage right across the board. Is Walthers, Branchline and Rapido the only high quality affordable manufacturer of cars?

 

Don't feel rained on. It's the same with N scale. I was lucky enough to get the various cars I have while they were plentiful in the last several years but now they're getting as rare as hens teeth, and what is out there has gotten really expensive at $25.00 per car on up. I'm also in the market for a nice set of Canadian National heavy weights but I may end up having to make them up myself using what ever I can find out there... Good luck to you.

Tracklayer

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Posted by ndbprr on Monday, December 30, 2013 7:02 PM
A CN heavyweight is not a post-2000 Amtrak era car
.
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Posted by dome_lounge on Monday, December 30, 2013 6:49 PM
As a dedicated passenger train modeler who tries to get as close to correct as possible, I can agree that it is at times virtually impossible to nail a consist exactly.
The good news is that if you do a fair amount of research and cannot ascertain exactly what configuration a particular car existed in at a certain time in a given train, nobody else can either.
Which means you can run the car however you want, and nobody can prove you wrong!
 

 

Jerry
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Posted by NittanyLion on Monday, December 30, 2013 5:36 PM

ndbprr
So why not buy one and repaint it? That is what many of us have done over the years. This doesn't have to be a ready to run hobby
.
 

But if you're an HO scale post-2000 Amtrak era guy, you're sort of out of luck no matter what.

You can get Superliners and Amfleets, but good luck getting locomotives or baggage cars.  Or Viewliners.

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Monday, December 30, 2013 3:55 PM

Just looked, and there are 2 Branchline 12-1 sleepers in CNR listed on eBay. The auctions expire in 20 hours. 

 

Also, eBay has some Rivarossi heavyweight cars in CNR listed. 

GARRY

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EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by tstage on Monday, December 30, 2013 3:52 PM

Fergmiester

Is it me or is there a shortage of high quality HO passenger cars on the market? I searched high and low this morning for a CN Heavy Weight Passenger car. checked Walthers, checked Branchline, checked Ebay and called a couple of LHS' and Nada. What I found was there seems to be a shortage right across the board. Is Walthers, Branchline and Rapido the only high quality affordable manufacturer of cars?

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Respectfully to all - the OP's specific request was for a heavy weight passenger car - MTH and Rapido don't make any heavy weight cars?

True...but Fergy asked a generic question about other manufacturers of "high quality HO passenger cars" so that opened up (expanded) the conversation in my eyes.

Tom

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, December 30, 2013 3:40 PM

tstage

 

 
 

If MTH is smart they will market their lighting system so that it can be retrofitted in passenger cars of other manufacturers.  I'll be going to the WGH show here in Cleveland this coming Saturday and I plan on making that suggestion to them, as well as asking if they are planning to release any more 20th Century Limited cars in the future.

Tom

 

 

Miniatronics has had that for years - pricey - and I don't see MTH being able to do it any cheaper as a seperate item:

http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=100-ICL-01&Category_Code=2_8&Product_Count=3

Sheldon

 

 

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, December 30, 2013 3:34 PM

Respectfully to all - the OP's specific request was for a heavy weight passenger car - MTH and Rapido don't make any heavy weight cars?

The ConCor cars Don refered to are very nice - but they are freelanced. Does not seem to be what the OP is looking for.

Athearn is currently taking preorders for CN cars in their line of RTR heavy weights, but they are 72' freelanced shorties of no particular prototype and come with no interiors or lights - they do run well, can be easily upgraded detail wise, and always have nice paintwork. But not "modern" high detail, high accuracy RTR by any measure.

http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/122713/07_RTR_Heavyweight_Pass_Car_122713.pdf

AHM and Branchline have offered CN cars over the years - trick is finding them.

As other have suggested - modeling may actually require building/painting something?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by tstage on Monday, December 30, 2013 2:36 PM

Fergmiester
Is Walthers, Branchline and Rapido the only high quality affordable manufacturer of cars?

Fergy,

MTH has been making some VERY nice HO passenger cars in the past couple of years.  I picked up eight of the ten '40 20th Century Limited cars for my BLI '40 Dreyfuss Hudson and I couldn't be happier.  The detailing is quite nice and the LED lighting system developed by MTH to light each car is 2nd to none.

MTH uses a no-hands-on capacitor module for lighting their passenger cars.  It takes about a minute for a car to fully charge on the track and about 5 minutes for it to completely discharge, once you remove it from the track.  There's NO flickering and NO need to turn each car on or off, or accidentally drain the batteries. Thumbs Up  And access to the lighting module and interior of the car is just loosening a few screws.

If MTH is smart they will market their lighting system so that it can be retrofitted in passenger cars of other manufacturers.  I'll be going to the WGH show here in Cleveland this coming Saturday and I plan on making that suggestion to them, as well as asking if they are planning to release any more 20th Century Limited cars in the future.

Tom

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