MTH goes HO

[darth9x9]

If MTH was giving away HO models, I wouldn't waste my time driving there to get them (and I live less than 30 minutes away). I hope this is the beginning of the end of MTH. Mike has be dreaming/scheming to get into the HO market for years (I used to work for him in college). He finally found a way to do it by bullying his competition.

BC

[Anonymous]

I see I'm not the only one not protesting MTH. They didn't personally slap me or anything. Sure what ther are doing sucks, but if they produce something that tickles my fancy, I may make a purchase.

I'll view them just as another HO steam manufacture. You buy the trains you want. If some people choose not to buy MTH, well so be it.

[Anonymous]

jacon12, it's all about a bunch of nothing. Best to ignore the goofballs and buy the trains you like. BTW, I like TMCC which has yet to make inroads in HO.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Let the boycott begin!!!

Funny that Alex should mention MTH copying Lionel. MTH won a 40 million dollar judgement because Lionel produced a 3 rail O model from plans stolen from MTH.

Aggro, stand your ground and don't cave in MTH, no matter what they make.

Joe is right! I won't buy DCS for my 3 rail O, because I don't like the way MTH does business.

Let the Boycott Begin??? That is, until they release something that you just have to have. Boycotts are useless. I welcome MTH to the HO world.

Afterall it is just a hobby of running trains.

ALL HAIL MTH!!!!!!!! You shall all bow to MTH, KING OF KINGS

[AntonioFP45]

Jacon,

I'm going to look for the thread I posted back in February. I'm going to bring it to the front page. Watch for it. It should explain it all.

Cheers!

[AntonioFP45]

BoRockhard,

We have to respect your opinion.

Very likely that no one enjoys suggesting a boycott. However, It's also doubtful that modelers are hurting themsleves, but MTH's actions have had a wide "ripple" effect on model railroading industry.

Some think "No Big Deal". I would kindly suggest that these same people ask: Soundtraxx, Lenz, Digitrax, MRC, Broadway Limited, QSI, TCS, and NCE as they were going about their business when the lawsuit landed like a bag of rocks.

I personally don't know for sure, but it's likely that some of these companies had to pay out some money for legal consultation regarding DCC related products that they were developing and/or advancing. Now, will they absorb the cost or pass it on to us? Either way, it was "lose-lose" for the DCC consumer .

Peace out!

[jacon12]

I don't get it. Will somebody please explain this hostility toward MTH to newcomers like me. Evidently it has something to do with Lionel and DCC, but what? If you want to provide a link to where we can read about it, that would be fine.
Thanks..

[Anonymous]

I welcome another steam locomotive manufature. Just means more chance some one will make a locomotive you're waiting for. You only hurting yourselves by refusing to buy MTH products. If they turn in to another BLI and produce items that people want then its fine.

Hey MTH, if you're watching, I request a NP/GN/SP&S Challenger!

[robengland]

I think the only way the community can effectively express their concern about MTH is by boycotting their products

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cspmo

QUOTE: i don't buy MTH junk (yes any business that screw over customers is classified as producing junk products).

A word of caution about calling MTH junk,junk.They might sue you for LIBEL.

LOL!!! [:D]

[TrainFreak409]

Wow, I just noticed, I am, like, the only one who said anything good about the model. Maybe, because I sell MTH? Possibly.

Personally, I don't see why the lawsuit makes such a big deal. I'm not trying to change anybody's minds, no Peace speech or anything. I just don't get it. It's a good looking model. If it is a high quality model, I would purchase it, although MTH sued Lionel out of $40 Million, and is practically trying to push DCC out of everyones lives. What does it matter who makes it? Quality should be what's important. Unless something insanely wrong happens, the rich will only get richer.

~[8]~ TrainFreak409 ~[8]~

[Anonymous]

If I was in charge of a company like MTH bringing in a new HO product for my first offering, I would select a locomotive that is on the wanted list by the average modeler.

We have discussed this in a group form with polls and with our inputs, and I have seen other Polls from time to time. Most modelers want some of the more popular engines that have not been produced in plastic and probably would purchase an engine from MTH if they had someting like a CB&Q 5629 or a Reading T1. It really is poor planning for both MTH and BLI to bring out the PRR K4 at the same time, when many other engines would sell rather well.


I hope someone sends our polls to BLI, Not Lionel, and some of the others that might offer some real needed locomotives. .

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't worry about MTH suing you for calling their stuff junk - if the statement is true, that is always a defense to a libel suit lol.

BTW: How about someone suing MTH for producing junk - didn't Fred Sanford have the registered trademark for "junk"?

[cspmo]

QUOTE: i don't buy MTH junk (yes any business that screw over customers is classified as producing junk products).

A word of caution about calling MTH junk,junk.They might sue you for LIBEL.

[Anonymous]

I could care less, they're not in my era, and i don't buy MTH junk (yes any business that screw over customers is classified as producing junk products).

[Anonymous]

As a O-gaugerr (yep, three rail hi rail) I have very little use for MTH product in light of what i have learned about his business practices. THis move to HO makes very little sense to me. My take on it is that HO is a pretty flooded market. (right or wrong)??? I think if i had to put my money into something different i would have chose ON-30. I have seen people on here bemoaning the price of of broadway limited products. It just may be that MTH is strictly going for the "collector" market. However he has a very bad rap for late, very late, or never deliveries.
Bill

[barrydraper]

Add me to the list of HO modelers that will NOT buy anything from MTH! They refuse to cooperate with the NMRA and go so far as to attempt to prevent other companies from providing us products. I will not even look at what they are offering in HO until they stop trying to build a monopoly .

[TrainFreak409]

That is a very nice looking model. But, the price is a bit out of my league.

~[8]~ TrainFreak409 ~[8]~

[trainfan1221]

I'm not currently in HO, but a friend of mine worked at a hobby store a while back and said that the MTH stuff always had problems, especially ones equipped with extras for a sound system. I am not judging whether they should be in HO (frankly I would like to see more manufacturers in n) but I hope they at least worked out the bugs before embarking in something new.

[AntonioFP45]

DKelly, Student of Big Blue Sky

These guys you mention are or were indeed top notch leaders in the hobby. I have to salute Tony Koester also.

Mr. Mike Wolfe of MTH has the right to be an aggressive businessman (more like "ruthless"), just like the ceo of Union Pacific. However, he knows by now that "Poor PR" usually follows. Like the UP ceo he may or may not care but the way things have unfolded, he indeed is creating a legacy that most of us would not be proud of.

[BRAKIE]

Guys,If I needed a K4 I would go with the Boswer kit for $124.95 or a use/like new Brass K4 for less then $400.00..I just can't see me shelling out $400.00 for a non brass locomotive DCC/Sound equipped or not regardless of who makes it..[}:)]

[Anonymous]

Don't forget W. Allen McClellend.

I dare say that he is the architecht for the hobby as it is practiced today.

James

P.S. The V&O Afton Division is one of my all-Time Favoirite Layouts. I expect the Gauly (Spelling?) Division to be up there to. And since it is a fresh start using modern construction materials and scenery methods. I dare say that old man Allen (Ment as a term of respect) Might have us readers confounded as to wheather or not that is model or 1:1 scale he is playing with.

[Anonymous]

Antonio

Yes those guys you listed are truly greats in this hobby. I'd add Art Curren and Irv Athearn and pretty much all the editors of Model Railroader, Model Railroad Craftsman and the other mags. Wolfe? Not even close to being in the same league.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

So what exactly is MTH bringing to the table that is not already out there? A detailed metal, sound equipped loco......ummm on the market already. A smoke generator...ummm I have an old Bachmann that does that. A new propriety control system and sound....great one more thing to challenge the club's DCC system.

It's a nice looking model. But one scale mile per hour increments and crashing sounds (something I generally try to avoid, particularly if I had a $400 loco), aren't so revolutionary to me that I'm going to rush out and buy one even if I was a Pennsy modeler.

[#ditto][swg][:P] Very Well stated! Basically MTH is not bringing much at all! Unlike Broadway Limited, LifeLike's P2K Line, and Soundtraxx--which all came onto the market generating a lot of fan fare, excitement, and anticipation from modelers (yes, me too), MTH's entering into the HO market resounds more like: O.K, another guy throwing his hat in the ring.

From a marketing and public relations perspective: MTH's great opportunity to "blow the masses of HO modelers minds away with exciting, innovative products disintegrated in 2003.

For those that like the products....Go for it. Post your feedback. For the rest of us ( I may be wrong, but it seems like the majority) it's pretty much the equivilent of "Pancake Fluff""!

Here's another way to look at this: Bill Walther's [4:-)] , John Armstrong [4:-)], Linn Westcott [4:-)], Allen Keller [4:-)], Bruce Chubb [4:-)] , Keith Gutierezz.[4:-)]........Look at the contributions these guys have made to this hobby. They are doing or did their best to advance the hobby. When any of these names are mentioned by us, the comments that usually follow in conversations are those of high respect! These guys were not in it for the money. There are careers and trades that pay far more!

What legacy will Mr. Wolfe leave other than he made a ton of money selling trains?

Peace out!

[Anonymous]

Doesn't really bother me that MTH is entering the HO market. I probably will not buy one of their models, but if they come out with a model I need that no one makes, well then who knows.............

[Anonymous]

I think its time for me to dig a hole and Hide.

While MTH and Lionel have their strong points and their weak points, both manufacturors in my view make models that are geared to much for collectors than modelers. Now personal RTR vs Kit distiction aside. To me a Collector is a person who buys model trains for the primary purpose of sitting it on a shelf and letting it look pretty while a modeler is one who buys model trains with the intention of operating them in a signifigant and prolonged fashion. And I don't mean just a few laps around a glorified loop of track.

Besides PRR is so low on my list of modeling priorities that should I ever want one, Bachmann and Bowser Both have it. Not to mention the scores of second hand stuff that can be found out there.

James

[dharmon]

So what exactly is MTH bringing to the table that is not already out there? A detailed metal, sound equipped loco......ummm on the market already. A smoke generator...ummm I have an old Bachmann that does that. A new propriety control system and sound....great one more thing to challenge the club's DCC system.

It's a nice looking model. But one scale mile per hour increments and crashing sounds (something I generally try to avoid, particularly if I had a $400 loco), aren't so revolutionary to me that I'm going to rush out and buy one even if I was a Pennsy modeler.

The only bar I see raising here is that of price. More expensive unique items that are going to price this hobby out of existance except to the wealthy collectors.

[Anonymous]

Gosh, I hope someone already has the patent on 1/87 scale model trains or has the trademark on "HO." Would hate to have MTH demand that Athearn, Walthers, Roundhouse, BLI, Atlas enter into licensing agreements with MTH.

Before folks slam me over the details of patent and trademark law, the above was meant in a sarcastic, joking way - well kinda.

[AntonioFP45]

A wide variety of opinions here. Expressed reasonably. Very doubtful that this forum is going to be "shutdown" as a result of it, even if things do get a little "hot". It's up to us to keep this civil. And yes, whether we like MTH or not we should acknowledge that they do build some good products. The trajedy of this whole situation is that MTH could have taken a Leadership Role as Lenz from Germany has and helped advance the technology even more. What a waste of potential! Mr. Wolf would have gotten a heck of lot more support and customers instead of the negative feedback he's getting from many hobbyists.

CNJ831, you are correct, .................for now.

75% of us operate in DC. HOWEVER, modelers here that are over 50 probably remember when about 75% percent of modelers were in O or the larger scales at one time. I've heard stories where the thought of going HO was considered a joke! Just as in the 1970s N-Scale modelers were often not taken seriously. LOOKS LIKE TIMES CHANGE!

LIke it or not, DCC use is growing rapidly and is predicted to capture a very big chunk of the model railroad market in the next 5 to 7 years (I'll have to find the stats). We seem to forget that the "under 25" group of modelers, on average, are far more technically savvy than guys in my age group (over 40). How many computer hackers today are under 18?! More young people are buying their own stereo components and hooking up 1,000 watt systems in their cars complete with "Bridging Circuits". As the model railroaders in this group mature and embark on careers, DCC will become an expected norm for them. Older "crones" like me will be saying "I remember when there was no such thing as DCC".

Many of us are aware that MTH produces high quality products however, it's the actions MTH has taken that has so many people turned against it including customers in the international markets! Talk about word traveling around! As KBFSCME stated, MTH did "stink up" everyone else's sandbox.

The lawsuit has made a negative impact on DCC's advancement but has not stopped its progress. The only thing that we can do to MTH is to not support it.........that's it. For those modelers that wi***o continue to buy MTH products, we shouldn't ridicule them as they have a right to choose where they spend their dollars.

Even with the $40m judgement against Lionel, MTH has already lost a number of customers as word spread about this lawsuit. The best thing that could happen is if MTH LOSES this lawsuit. It would be Win-win all the way around, including for MTH. The lawsuit would eventually become a distant memory and modelers that at one time were resentful would likely buy MTH products if they are of high quality.

Peace Amigos!