MTH goes HO

[jacon12]

Some may have already seen this..
http://www.mthhotrains.com/models.asp
Jarrell

[Anonymous]

Isn't it interesting that MTH's model is a K-4...I wonder who picked it first, BLI or MTH!? One thing that turns me off is that it doesn't seem like the smoke generator is an option...oh well, I for sure won't be making any MTH purchases.

[Anonymous]

Are they trying to copy lionel ? I don't care because I really don't like the Pennsy.

[Anonymous]

Lest we forget, MTH is the one screwing up DCC and claiming prior art for things they may or may not have invented. It will be a cold day in H--- before I buy anything from MTH!

[Anonymous]

Pretty soon they'll sue everyone in HO for [insert stupid reason here].

[jfugate]

I find it interesting that MTH claims to have gone DCC one better with their DCS system.

Especially interesting in the light of their DCC vendors lawsuit. It's as if they want to strongarm their way into messing up DCC so bad with litigation that the only system free of legal entaglements (and hence no long delays to release from legal concerns) is their DCS system.

Maybe not a tactic they are using, but it seems ironic that they don't want to play in DCC land, but want to trump it, then they get lawsuit happy against DCC on top of it.

[AggroJones]

I protest MTH's HO line by principle, but if they come out with a DMIR Yellowstone, you better believe I'm getting one!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Let the boycott begin!!!

Funny that Alex should mention MTH copying Lionel. MTH won a 40 million dollar judgement because Lionel produced a 3 rail O model from plans stolen from MTH.

Aggro, stand your ground and don't cave in MTH, no matter what they make.

Joe is right! I won't buy DCS for my 3 rail O, because I don't like the way MTH does business.

[cacole]

After the damage MTH has caused to the DCC world with his threats of lawsuits, I will never, ever purchase an MTH product, no matter how good or what scale it might be.

[Anonymous]

Hey guys, if MTH wants to go HO, the more the merrier! These trains are toys, nothing more. Let the fun begin!

[ben10ben]

Even if I were still in HO, Mike would not be seeing one penny of my train money, just as he doesn't see a single penny of it for his O gauge trains.

While Mike does no doubt put out an excellent product, and he is an excellent business man, I don't agree with him on many of his ideas.

This is a man who built his entire business on making copies of vintage Lionel trains(first postwar, and the pre-war) who then sues Lionel's butt off, claiming that they copied some of his models. Seems a bit hypocrytical to me.

[Anonymous]

MTH WEB site information

Unlike other HO sound-equipped locomotives currently on the market, M.T.H.'s steam locomotives will include synchronized puffing smoke timed to drive wheel revolutions for an incredibly realistic operating experience. First appearing in M.T.H.'s O Gauge locomotives in 2000, a similar smoke system will be utilized in the HO models. Because of the system's similarity (the primary difference is a smaller smoke fluid reservoir), output productivity in the HO models will be comparable to the O Gauge models. Each HO locomotive will feature a prototypically correct four chuffs/puffs per each drive wheel revolution.

Digital sound features including whistle, bell, chuffing, squeaking brakes, authentic Doppler, passenger station announcements, air let-off, air pump, blow down, pop-off, injector and dozens more are included in each engine - a variety unmatched in HO today. In addition, each engine features 120 speed steps, each in scale one-mile-per-hour increments for a true prototypical operating experience.

The die-cast metal boiler and tender house the electronics and a precision five-pole flywheel-equipped motor. Intricately detailed, the boiler and tender shells feature additional detail elements ensuring an accurate reproduction of the Pennsy's most famous steam locomotive. Additional features include sprung drivers, (2) Kadee® couplers, prototypical Rule 21 lighting, interchangeable RP25 drivers with traction tires for added pulling strength, detailed cab interior, detailed tender undercarriage and even a tender to boiler deck plate.

[Anonymous]

Hey bennie, they why are you on the OGR forum defending MTH and Mikey?? Does it change when you come to the HO side. Seems a bit hypocrytical to me. Just run back to mamma and count some more rivets.[:0]

pax[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

Somebody needs to explain something to Mr Wolf.[:(!]
SInce he stunk up somebody else's sandbox,
he is not welcome to come stink up ours!
We HO scalers are generally a nice bunch[:D] but,
MTH has screwed with us enough already![:(!]
I suggest a total boycott of MTH, along with
a vocal and frequently given disappoval of all things MTH.

Mike, go ahead and do a "tunnel motor" diesel in HO,
I've already got a suggestion as to where you can run it! [;)]

[simon1966]

I'm not going to buy one!

[CNJ831]

To put things in some perspective, guys, with this talk of boycotting and threats of bad-mouthing MTH at every turn, remember two important things:

1. Better than 75% of hobbyist operate on DC, not DCC, and couldn't care any less about MTH's lawsuits with the other manufacturers over it or the final outcome.

2. If the threads here get ugly enough Kalmbach is likely to shut down this forum just as Atlas did their's over the Athearn/Horizon situation a couple of months back.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

Well who knows, maybe Athern, Lionel, Proto, and BLI will all get together and sue MTH for infringing on the HO world, you just never know. You know the old saying "What goes around, comes around".

[Anonymous]

You guys are too funny! A dozen, or even a hundred, posters will or won't buy it. Makes no difference. I can't wait for TMCC in HO myself. Me and a hundred others. [;)]

[Anonymous]

Does anyone else think that we should embrace the larger selection?

[AntonioFP45]

A wide variety of opinions here. Expressed reasonably. Very doubtful that this forum is going to be "shutdown" as a result of it, even if things do get a little "hot". It's up to us to keep this civil. And yes, whether we like MTH or not we should acknowledge that they do build some good products. The trajedy of this whole situation is that MTH could have taken a Leadership Role as Lenz from Germany has and helped advance the technology even more. What a waste of potential! Mr. Wolf would have gotten a heck of lot more support and customers instead of the negative feedback he's getting from many hobbyists.

CNJ831, you are correct, .................for now.

75% of us operate in DC. HOWEVER, modelers here that are over 50 probably remember when about 75% percent of modelers were in O or the larger scales at one time. I've heard stories where the thought of going HO was considered a joke! Just as in the 1970s N-Scale modelers were often not taken seriously. LOOKS LIKE TIMES CHANGE!

LIke it or not, DCC use is growing rapidly and is predicted to capture a very big chunk of the model railroad market in the next 5 to 7 years (I'll have to find the stats). We seem to forget that the "under 25" group of modelers, on average, are far more technically savvy than guys in my age group (over 40). How many computer hackers today are under 18?! More young people are buying their own stereo components and hooking up 1,000 watt systems in their cars complete with "Bridging Circuits". As the model railroaders in this group mature and embark on careers, DCC will become an expected norm for them. Older "crones" like me will be saying "I remember when there was no such thing as DCC".

Many of us are aware that MTH produces high quality products however, it's the actions MTH has taken that has so many people turned against it including customers in the international markets! Talk about word traveling around! As KBFSCME stated, MTH did "stink up" everyone else's sandbox.

The lawsuit has made a negative impact on DCC's advancement but has not stopped its progress. The only thing that we can do to MTH is to not support it.........that's it. For those modelers that wi***o continue to buy MTH products, we shouldn't ridicule them as they have a right to choose where they spend their dollars.

Even with the $40m judgement against Lionel, MTH has already lost a number of customers as word spread about this lawsuit. The best thing that could happen is if MTH LOSES this lawsuit. It would be Win-win all the way around, including for MTH. The lawsuit would eventually become a distant memory and modelers that at one time were resentful would likely buy MTH products if they are of high quality.

Peace Amigos!

[Anonymous]

Gosh, I hope someone already has the patent on 1/87 scale model trains or has the trademark on "HO." Would hate to have MTH demand that Athearn, Walthers, Roundhouse, BLI, Atlas enter into licensing agreements with MTH.

Before folks slam me over the details of patent and trademark law, the above was meant in a sarcastic, joking way - well kinda.

[dharmon]

So what exactly is MTH bringing to the table that is not already out there? A detailed metal, sound equipped loco......ummm on the market already. A smoke generator...ummm I have an old Bachmann that does that. A new propriety control system and sound....great one more thing to challenge the club's DCC system.

It's a nice looking model. But one scale mile per hour increments and crashing sounds (something I generally try to avoid, particularly if I had a $400 loco), aren't so revolutionary to me that I'm going to rush out and buy one even if I was a Pennsy modeler.

The only bar I see raising here is that of price. More expensive unique items that are going to price this hobby out of existance except to the wealthy collectors.

[Anonymous]

I think its time for me to dig a hole and Hide.

While MTH and Lionel have their strong points and their weak points, both manufacturors in my view make models that are geared to much for collectors than modelers. Now personal RTR vs Kit distiction aside. To me a Collector is a person who buys model trains for the primary purpose of sitting it on a shelf and letting it look pretty while a modeler is one who buys model trains with the intention of operating them in a signifigant and prolonged fashion. And I don't mean just a few laps around a glorified loop of track.

Besides PRR is so low on my list of modeling priorities that should I ever want one, Bachmann and Bowser Both have it. Not to mention the scores of second hand stuff that can be found out there.

James

[Anonymous]

Doesn't really bother me that MTH is entering the HO market. I probably will not buy one of their models, but if they come out with a model I need that no one makes, well then who knows.............

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

So what exactly is MTH bringing to the table that is not already out there? A detailed metal, sound equipped loco......ummm on the market already. A smoke generator...ummm I have an old Bachmann that does that. A new propriety control system and sound....great one more thing to challenge the club's DCC system.

It's a nice looking model. But one scale mile per hour increments and crashing sounds (something I generally try to avoid, particularly if I had a $400 loco), aren't so revolutionary to me that I'm going to rush out and buy one even if I was a Pennsy modeler.

[#ditto][swg][:P] Very Well stated! Basically MTH is not bringing much at all! Unlike Broadway Limited, LifeLike's P2K Line, and Soundtraxx--which all came onto the market generating a lot of fan fare, excitement, and anticipation from modelers (yes, me too), MTH's entering into the HO market resounds more like: O.K, another guy throwing his hat in the ring.

From a marketing and public relations perspective: MTH's great opportunity to "blow the masses of HO modelers minds away with exciting, innovative products disintegrated in 2003.

For those that like the products....Go for it. Post your feedback. For the rest of us ( I may be wrong, but it seems like the majority) it's pretty much the equivilent of "Pancake Fluff""!

Here's another way to look at this: Bill Walther's [4:-)] , John Armstrong [4:-)], Linn Westcott [4:-)], Allen Keller [4:-)], Bruce Chubb [4:-)] , Keith Gutierezz.[4:-)]........Look at the contributions these guys have made to this hobby. They are doing or did their best to advance the hobby. When any of these names are mentioned by us, the comments that usually follow in conversations are those of high respect! These guys were not in it for the money. There are careers and trades that pay far more!

What legacy will Mr. Wolfe leave other than he made a ton of money selling trains?

Peace out!

[Anonymous]

Antonio

Yes those guys you listed are truly greats in this hobby. I'd add Art Curren and Irv Athearn and pretty much all the editors of Model Railroader, Model Railroad Craftsman and the other mags. Wolfe? Not even close to being in the same league.

[Anonymous]

Don't forget W. Allen McClellend.

I dare say that he is the architecht for the hobby as it is practiced today.

James

P.S. The V&O Afton Division is one of my all-Time Favoirite Layouts. I expect the Gauly (Spelling?) Division to be up there to. And since it is a fresh start using modern construction materials and scenery methods. I dare say that old man Allen (Ment as a term of respect) Might have us readers confounded as to wheather or not that is model or 1:1 scale he is playing with.

[BRAKIE]

Guys,If I needed a K4 I would go with the Boswer kit for $124.95 or a use/like new Brass K4 for less then $400.00..I just can't see me shelling out $400.00 for a non brass locomotive DCC/Sound equipped or not regardless of who makes it..[}:)]

[AntonioFP45]

DKelly, Student of Big Blue Sky

These guys you mention are or were indeed top notch leaders in the hobby. I have to salute Tony Koester also.

Mr. Mike Wolfe of MTH has the right to be an aggressive businessman (more like "ruthless"), just like the ceo of Union Pacific. However, he knows by now that "Poor PR" usually follows. Like the UP ceo he may or may not care but the way things have unfolded, he indeed is creating a legacy that most of us would not be proud of.

[trainfan1221]

I'm not currently in HO, but a friend of mine worked at a hobby store a while back and said that the MTH stuff always had problems, especially ones equipped with extras for a sound system. I am not judging whether they should be in HO (frankly I would like to see more manufacturers in n) but I hope they at least worked out the bugs before embarking in something new.