Hair Clipper Oil?

[BRAKIE]

The club I go to uses nickel silver track made by Atlas..Now we did have a industrial park that had some old brass track as a temporary stop gap fix that lasted for quite some time before we remember it was brass..I am sure it has been torn out and replace as we voted to replace it some time ago..Come to think of it,it still might be there since we wasn't having problems with oxidization. ..I know its painted because I was the one that did the painting after I finished painting Steve lightly screen ballast and added weeds and such like details to the track..

I also stated that I know of a older club that still has about 75% brass track on their layout..This club operates once a week with no problems..Perhaps that's what you was thinking of?

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

Pure, distilled water does not conduct electricity. It is a dielectric substance. Contaminants in non-pure water conduct electricity.

You learn something new every day. I found that hard to believe, so I did a web search. I found dozens of sites saying exactly that!

[:0][:)]

[Don Gibson]

As an owner of a Wahl ' clipper - they DO.
(They have to be regularly taken apart and 'cleaned').

THOSE that think oil disolves dirt - it will - but it doesn't remove it.
Try applying it to a WINDOW sometime.

[darth9x9]

If Wahl clipper oil is so bad (many comments on how it draws dust, dirt, etc) why don't barber's clippers gum up? (or is this too obvious?).

BC

[ben10ben]

As I said earlier, Radio Shack TV tuner cleaner contains 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane, cyclomethicone, and mineral oil. Yes, mineral oil, the very low viscosity petroleum-derived hydrocarbon sometimes used as a laxitive and the primary component of many lamp oils and model train smoke fluids. I have been running toy trains(3 rail O gauge) for many years, and I can tell you that mineral oil is definitely the last thing you want on your track. If nothing else, your traction-tire equipped engines will have their tires swell, and will throw the tires.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Guys,I use Radio Shacks Channel Tuner Cleaner.Spray your track and forget it for 6 months..[:D] I learn this at the club as that is the way we keep our track clean...
Another thing there is no need to keep your track squeaky clean.I know of several modelers and clubs that seldom use anything other then a old fashion locomotive or car with a bright boy attached on the bottom that they simply shove around the layout with locomotives..

QUOTE: "Don The Channel Turner Cleaner is not a oil...Its a cleaner not a lubicant.There is NO flim left behind ...We have use this for the last 12 years at the club with no gook built up on the rails or wheels.Just like I said spray it and forget for 6 months.

BRAKIE: Didn't you post about a year ago, either YOU or your CLUB - uses Brass track? Brass oxidizes.

Re: OIL It's obvious you haven't read the label on your can of Radio Shack Tuner Cleaner. I wouldn't bring it up at club if they've been using it for 12 years -You know what they say about 'killing the messenger".

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly

I can't believe that there is a war going on about the best way to clean track!

It only becomes a war when you see smoke; none so far.

Probably everything works. It just we wi***o minimize the frequency of efforts
and R U N T R A I N S so lets do it.

Happy railroading and thanks for the contributions.

[BRAKIE]

Yes,I remember the letter wars on the Walthers' PC steam locomotive decals..I also remember the howl about the Model Power 4-6-2 that came lettered for Chessie long before the 2101 was painted in Chessie.[}:)]

[Anonymous]

I can't believe that there is a war going on about the best way to clean track! (Anyone remember the letter war in Model Railroader when someone suggested that Walthers was committing some sort of fraud because it advertised a Penn Central steam locomotive decal?). I think that every method listed here works for the person championing it. The key is to read the various methods, pick a few to try, try them, determine what works best for you and then use that one.

[Anonymous]

How many people remember your Dad saying "don't turn the knob that fast on the TV - you'll ruin the tuner!"? How many people even know what a TV tuner is?

[ben10ben]

QUOTE: QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

Pure, distilled water does not conduct electricity. It is a dielectric substance. Contaminants in non-pure water conduct electricity.


If an AC pugged-in radio fell into my bath water and electrocuted me, Are you suggesting I"M the contaminant?

Tap water is not distilled water. Tap water contains numerous dissolved ions, like calcium carbonate, as well as halogen ions, like fluoride and cloride. These ions are what conduct electricity, not the water itself. Distilled water has had all of these ions removed, so it won't conduct electricity. Try it yourself. Commericial electrolysis often involves adding very small amounts of sulfuric acid to the water to enhance the conductivity.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

Pure, distilled water does not conduct electricity. It is a dielectric substance. Contaminants in non-pure water conduct electricity.

If an AC pugged-in radio fell into my bath water and electrocuted me, Are you suggesting I"M the contaminant?

QUOTE: It does no good to clean your electrically-powered equipment and track only to have the rolling stock redeposit the grime and grunge onto the rails.

Agreed. It's got to be removed.

QUOTE: ATF is a very interesting idea!

It's still an oil. Oils attract dirt and dust. A Detergent / oil emulsion may dissolve dirt, but that doesn't remove it.

OILS loosen dirt. Does It 'clean' Engine wheels in a cradle. Yes when you use a swab. Gals like bath oils. Once my wife poured a bath oil into my tub. - It left a ring.
Dissolved dirt HAS to go somewhere. If you like cleaning rolling stock wheels - use oil.

[ben10ben]

For what it's worth, the MSDS for Radio Shack's brand of tuner cleaner lists the ingredients as being 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane, cyclomethicone, and mineral oil. So, yes, Radio Shack's tuner cleaner is oil based.

[bcammack]

Pure, distilled water does not conduct electricity. It is a dielectric substance. Contaminants in non-pure water conduct electricity.

Solvents are solvents. Detergents are emulsifiers.

It does no good to clean your electrically-powered equipment and track only to have the rolling stock redeposit the grime and grunge onto the rails.

ATF is a very interesting idea!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme
..."No other oil comes close to the detergents in ATF. I have literally seen dirty wheels clean up just by applying ATF to them and running them a bit in a cradle with Dexron 3 on the swab.
I first got the idea after a club member brought Railzip to the layout, and it seemed to work fine, until it dried out. See, RailZip is water based. Oils tend to dry out at a much slower rate. Plus my day job sometimes puts me up to my elbows in a transmission, replacing little plastic & electrical parts! But I realize Don that this is all lost on you. I simply threw the idea out in case someone else may get some use of it. Differn't stroke for differn't folks, ya know?

Since this is presumably "lost on me" (I can accept this) you will be good enough to explain after the Detergent dissolves the 'dirt contaminants' into an oil suspension how one get's rid of the 'dirt'? Perhaps the word I hylighted "swab" is the clue?

In the case of any oil/dirt suspension on the track - and if it doesnt dry out - where does it go?? You might try going back and re-read my posts.

What's next? WD-40?

Don
I've used ATF on a swab in conjunction with an engine cradle to clean wheels, I've also used it on a paper towel and driven one end of a diesel onto it to clean the wheels, but in 99% of the cases, just 2-3 drops on the tracks is all I use in front of an oncoming train cleans the whole train. Where the dirt goes, I dont know, or really care! I have seen cars "shed" small chunks of dirt, I can only assume that all do . I havn't cleaned wheels on a car since I can remember. The cases of cars I have here that just came off the club layout ALL have clean wheels.
Maybe the difference is that in a prior post you mentioned brass wheels. ( I wouldn't use brass track, let alone brass wheels.) All of mine (and the clubs) are either Jay-bee, Intermountain or P2K nickel silver.
Who knows, like I said before , differn't strokes.................

[Don Gibson]

Ebriley

I cleaned TV tuners too - Earlier - with Carbon Tet. SOME commercial 'Tuner cleaners' did leave an oil film, and some Commercial 'Track cleaners have an light oil base. I used one for two years. the track stayed shiney but my plastic wheels developed 'tires'. Today I have all JB brass wheels - not so much for 'crud' buildup, but eliminating gauge problems.
Yes, metal wheels do pick up 'crud' too.

Wahl Clipper oil I own (since I also own a Wahl Clipper). I don't talk about thing I don't actuly own, or haven't had. Your 'Fingers test' is an accurate indicator. More people should try it.

[Anonymous]

Don,

Back in the 1970s when a lot of TV sets still had mechanical tuners I worked on TV sets. The good "tuner cleaner sprays" are NOT oil based. It was ALWAYS a bad idea to use oil on a tuner. The result was eventually worse than when you started. The good tuner cleaners were based on other chemicals. I have cleaned track with tuner cleaner and don't particularly like it for that purpose. I have never tried the Wahl clipper oil because I can't get a handle on the chemistry involved. It seems to me like oiling a lock instead of using the powered lubricants. It will eventually attract dust and dirt. But back to my point...if you spray your thumb with a GOOD tuner cleaner it will get very cold but it won't get oil on it!

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme
..."No other oil comes close to the detergents in ATF. I have literally seen dirty wheels clean up just by applying ATF to them and running them a bit in a cradle with Dexron 3 on the swab.
I first got the idea after a club member brought Railzip to the layout, and it seemed to work fine, until it dried out. See, RailZip is water based. Oils tend to dry out at a much slower rate. Plus my day job sometimes puts me up to my elbows in a transmission, replacing little plastic & electrical parts! But I realize Don that this is all lost on you. I simply threw the idea out in case someone else may get some use of it. Differn't stroke for differn't folks, ya know?

Since this is presumably "lost on me" (I can accept this) you will be good enough to explain after the Detergent dissolves the 'dirt contaminants' into an oil suspension how one get's rid of the 'dirt'? Perhaps the word I hylighted "swab" is the clue?

In the case of any oil/dirt suspension on the track - and if it doesnt dry out - where does it go?? You might try going back and re-read my posts.

What's next? WD-40?

[BRAKIE]

Don,I give up on you,think as you wish and say as you will..Locomotive wheels picks up crude just like cars..You should know that..Channel turner cleaner works far better then anything I found yet and that is speaking from experience.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

KBFCSME; Transmission Oil? (Shudder). Isn't 'Transmission Oil' a low viscosity oil with detergents and anti-foamers in it?

Exactly why it works! [:D]
No other oil comes close to the detergents in ATF. I have literally seen dirty wheels clean up just by applying ATF to them and running them a bit in a cradle with Dexron 3 on the swab.
I first got the idea after a club member brought Railzip to the layout, and it seemed to work fine, until it dried out. See, RailZip is water based. Oils tend to dry out at a much slower rate. Plus my day job sometimes puts me up to my elbows in a transmission, replacing little plastic & electrical parts!
As far as traction, you just cannot overdo it. We still manage to run 110+ car trains with usually only 3 Atlas Geeps as power.
But I realize Don that this is all lost on you. I simply threw the idea out in case someone else may get some use of it.
Differn't stroke for differn't folks, ya know?[^]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea


[%-)]
Something I am not understanding.
Oil eliminates friction, right? Doesn't your loco have a problem with a grade even with a light film of oil?

re: Big_Boy ...abrasives ...will leave scratches...
If the track is nickel plated, will Bright Boy or other abrasives eventually remove the plating?

REX

Thanks Don.[;)] Rex, first of all nickel silver rail isn't plated, it's a solid alloy. I'm not sure how much silver, if any, is in it. Silver by itself would be worse than brass as far as oxidation is concerned. This is why most modelers don't use brass track. I'm not even sure why they bother to make it anymore.
.

[;)]

Take it from the PRO,NIGEL.
"There is NO silver in "Nickel Silver". A typical composistion is: Copper 65%, Nickel 10% and Zink 25%. It is a member of the brass family".

[twhite]

I've been hearing pros and cons of hair clipper oil ever since Model Railroader had black and white covers. Never had the courage to try it, because it's called OIL and I've got a couple of spots with 2.4% grades on my layout. Since my layout is in a garage, I've had lots of trouble with ANY liquid on the rails, since it just turns whatever dust creeps in into a sludge. I use a vacuum cleaner and a mild abrasive pad similar to a Brite Boy. I have used Radio Shack contact cleaner on turnout points and it works quite well, you just have to be careful not to go crazy when you spray it on. But the thought of oil on my tracks kind of gives me the Willies.

[Anonymous]

I would suspect rail dirt, per Tonys Train Exchange, is the result of a combination up to three maybe four sources of contamination and the environmental factors where our trains operates.

(AZ garage, no humidity,no AC, Mi garage, too much humidity, no AC, down in the basement,
up in a spare AC room etc, the use of a dehumidifier, smokeless rooms etc. Lots of variables here.

Our layouts may not be victim of all those combined consequences, therefore the results achieved by using different products may produce the same net result, Clean Track.

One cleaner Tony recommends with his clean machine is lacquer thinner. I have that . Too
explosive for this old fart. I don't want to learn the hard way.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

You have identified some of the potential pitfalls of this practice. Some people swear by hair clipper oil others swear at it. Certainly excessive use will cause problems. the trick is to know when you have applied just the right amount. Placing a drop on each rail and allowing the train to spread it, may not be as effective as using a cloth and applying it by hand. All you really want is just the finest film coating the rails. It helps with electrical contact, especially when used with DCC.

Easy now boys, see what I mean about there being two camps on this one.

To me, the $64,000 question is, does Eric Brooman still advocate this practice 23 years after it was published? Has he moved on to something else for his railroad? Maybe Andy Sperandeo will weigh in on this one tomorrow.[;)]

[dave9999]

Why don't you all agree to disagree on this? Dave

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Don,If we had dirty wheels like you claim we have then certainly our locomotives will not run as smooth as they do.Thats is the first law of dirty wheels -spotty performance..

Brakie. Has it occured to you that the ENGINE is the only thing using electricity - and it's normaly at the head-end of the train? CLUE?? - I give up.

QUOTE:
We use metal wheels on our freight and passenger cars again we have no excessive build up of crude other then what is normal over a year's time or more likely if we even bother to check the cars or engine wheels in a years time so it may be longer then that...
So,One more time..Channel turner cleaner works very well for us.Had I not seen this and use it myself I to would be a skeptic..

A mind is a terrible thing to waste

[BRAKIE]

Don,If we had dirty wheels like you claim we have then certainly our locomotives will not run as smooth as they do.Thats is the first law of dirty wheels -spotty performance..
We use metal wheels on our freight and passenger cars again we have no excessive build up of crude other then what is normal over a year's time or more likely if we even bother to check the cars or engine wheels in a years time so it may be longer then that...
So,One more time..Channel turner cleaner works very well for us.Had I not seen this and use it myself I to would be a skeptic..

[Don Gibson]

Brakie, Et al:

PHYSICS 101:
OIL is OIL: Frozen oil becomes wax.
Wax coats. So does oil. The difference is TEMPERATURE.
If it's thin enough, it can CONDUCT electricity. So does water.

SOLVENTS loosen dirt. So do DETERGENTS. - BUT ...
Neither REMOVES dirt. (Notice the inclusion of the word "move").
This takes removal: Absorbing, blotting, rinsing, or transferring.

In our HO WORLD: your choice is removing by ...wiping, or 'blotting' - or letting your wheels pick it up. Everything else is OLD WIVES TALES. In Chuck Walsh's situation he is applying a cleaning agent to his wheels and the cotton swab pick's up the dirt. I do the same thing except we may use different solvents. When the cotton swab is no longer dirty, I move on to another wheel.

I think some are truly believing the word "Cleaner' printed on the can. Even on windows one removes the smudges with a cloth - after spraying 'cleaner' on them.

IN A CLUB situation, a double roller - one wet followed by dry - will show you where the dirt actually goes.

Brakie: Your club may clean it's track only twice a year - but it's because everyone's wheels are doing such a good job. Try rolling one of your cars on a Alchohol impregnated paper towel sometime.

KBFCSME; Transmission Oil? (Shudder). Isn't 'Transmission Oil' a low viscosity oil with detergents and anti-foamers in it?

[BRAKIE]

Don,First any advice I give is from my own experiences or what I seen done first hand and I pay little attention to articles in any model magazine or take them as the only correct answer..I trust you do the same?
Now then..As I stated we been using channel turner cleaner for the last 12 years at the club with no ill affects.80% of the time we do not clean track by using the old Athearn F7 dummy with a bright boy attach on the bottom before operating.Yard tracks seldom get clean before operation as well without any ill affects from not cleaning the tracks before operation..However twice a year we have a track cleaning Saturday at the club where we clean the track then spray on the channel turner cleaner and we are good to go for 6 more months..I am yet to clean my HO industrial switching layout after cleaning and spraying on the channel turner cleaner with no side affects that one would expect from not cleaning track..
As I stated some time back on the Atlas forum I fully believe most modelers worry more about cleaning track then they do running trains thanks to the magazine experts that think they have all the correct answers on how things work..No,the best teacher is experience.Find what works best for you and stay with it..Be not afraid to go against the gain of the so called experts or every new idea that comes along in some magazine..Your hobby life will be less complicated.