I gave the Micro-Mark roof material a try. Cut a piece to length, set it in the hopper - this looks liek it will work just fine! Greatly simplifies the job of making the roof part.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Sorry, Randy, but I think this is going to come back to bite you later in the project.
I just went back and reviewed your original attempt and couldn't find your reason for changing course. In my opinion, you made the original styrene roof the hard way, wasting material and time, too.
Because all of the Accurail cars are identical in dimensions, you need measure only one to get the correct roof dimensions, providing that you were accurate when making the peaked ends. For those, measure, on the inside of the car, the distance from the point where the slope sheet meets the vertical part of the end to the point which would represent the top of the roof''s peak. From that measurement, subtract the thickness of the roof material, then cut a strip of styrene to that width, making the strip a little longer than six times the inside width of the car. Using dividers or calipers (dividers are easier, in this case) "walk-off" the dimension equal to the inside width of the car, scribing a line at each point where the strip will be cut, using a machinist's square and your X-Acto. Next, set the dividers to half the inside width of the car, and mark with another scribed line at the mid-point of each piece. Finally, set the dividers to the dimension representing the distance from the top of the slope sheet to the top of the Accurail car's end, then, with one leg of the divider over the bottom edge of the styrene strip, and the other leg resting atop the styrene at as close to 90° as possible, drag along the length of the strip, scribing a line as you go. This line represents the height of the car's eaves, and lowest part of the roof.Use the machinist's square and your X-Acto to cut the six end pieces from the strip, then use a suitable straightedge to cut from the halfway mark at the top of each end sheet, on an angle, down the the line scribed by the dividers. This should give you six identical ends, which can then be cemented into the cars with their bottom edges resting at the junction of slope sheet and the cars' interior ends.
To support the roof, cut three strips from heavy styrene sheet (.060" works well), making them just a bit narrower than the strip which you made on which the ends were laid-out. (Because of its thickness, these ridge pieces will need to sit a little lower so that their "shoulders" don't stick up above the slope of the ends.) Their length should be exactly the same as the inside length of the car with the peaked ends installed - a little too short is okay, while a little too long is no good, as the piece, once in place, must be absolutely straight. Cut 12 short lengths of strip styrene, .100"x.100" or .080"x.080" and cement them vertically on both sides of both ends of this ridge support where it meets the ends - if the ridge is a little short, cement with all pieces touching at one end, then cement the strip material touching the other end and both sides of the ridge material, leaving the gap between that end and the too-short ridge. Once the cement has hardened, it'll be plenty strong enough.
To make the roofs, measure the car's length, adding whatever is needed for an overhang on both ends, and width (measure along the slope of the ends, totalling both slopes plus both side overhangs, if required. Using a suitable square and straightedge, lay this out on your sheet styrene roof material (I use the X-Acto blade to make marks, rather than a pencil, then, to make the marks more visible, rub them with the tip of my finger - even in a clean shop, there's enough dirt around to highlight the marks. Before cutting out the three roof pieces, mark the centreline (ridge) of each piece by lightly scoring along its entire length with your X-Acto. Cut out the three complete roofs using the score-and-snap method, dressing the edges, if necessary, by sliding them lightly over some medium grit sandpaper, face-up, on your work surface. Next, depending on the thickness of the roof material, make several light passes along the centreline marked previously, then carefully bend along the scored line - this should yield a one-piece roof which may be cemented to the cars' sides, ends, and ridge supports.
The purpose of this long-winded treatise on using styrene is to emphasise the advantages of working in like materials. Your hatch construction, easily done in styrene, will be easy to secure to the new roof, as will be the roofwalk supports about which you were so concerned. If you're making "board" roofwalks, styrene is a logical and easy-to-work-with choice, as seen here:
Introducing the wood roof solves one problem, but doesn't address the concerns which you had about roofwalk supports, and introduces a whole set of new problems when it comes to attaching subsequent styrene parts to the wood.
These are your cars and your preferences of course, and I would never go so far as to say that you're doing it wrong, but I do think that you're making it more difficult than it needs to be.
Wayne
I certainly appreciate the suggestions, but I'm also thinkign the styrene to wood isn;t goign to be a huge deal. The roofwalk issue I think is easier - this wood roof stock is sold, so once I lay out the locations fo rthe roofwalk supports, I can make a notch for each support, allowing it to sit flat across the peak. For the roof walk, that would eb the only wood to styrene bond, the longitudinal strips would be styrene to the styrene supports. The hatches also, since they are two pieces of styrene, one slightly smaller thant he other. One bonds to wood, the other bonds to the other styrene piece.
Since I essentially have one of each right now, I can try both ways and see how it works. The styrene fabrication method definitely needs to be done more liek you describe, not like the article, as that was much more difficult than it needed to be. It also could use the extra center support, and the roof should probably be .030 instead of .020 - the .020 split along the center score line when folded down despire the score being barely visible.
I was initially concerned about the overhang on the ends - or lack thereof with the wood material. However, reviewing the photos in a book on the prototype (indeed, there is a book where the sole focus is on the various classes of covered hoppers owned by the Reading) shows that the prototype cars actually did not overhang on the ends and were set in by the width of the bulb of the end sheet.
As for working with various materials, by now I have certainly assembled many more styrene kits, but when it comes to cutting and shaping parts from plain materials, I've actually done more with wood, goign back to my model rocket days. With some sanding sealer and sandpaper of various grits, I can make that wood roof feel like a piece of plastic - people were often convinced that many of my rockets used the pre-made plastic fins that were then becoming popular rather than made by cutting a pattern from sheet wood., so as far as appearance goes, I don;t think I'll have any trouble making the wood roof look like the sheet steel prototype.
It's probably best for you to go with the wood roof, as you're familiar working with wood. I used to work in wood, too, but abandoned it after I discovered styrene. I find styrene models, especially fine details, stand-up better than wood, especially over time, and I've never had a styrene model fall apart with age - perhaps those old wood glues weren't as good as current ones, or perhaps my techniques weren't so good. I gave away my stash of milled sheet stock and most of the strip material, too: a lot of the latter was structural shapes which I had purchased to build a blast furnace, as I was unaware of any similar shapes in plastic at that time. All that survives of that project (I ran out of both space and money) is a bunch of these roof trusses:
...and this crane:
I did re-deck some Athearn flatcars with stripwood....
...and built some lumber loads...
...then hacked-up what was left as used blocking and dunnage in empty gondolas...
Here's a shot of the blast furnace, built using blueprints of the real one. Most of the structure is wood:
Clearly there is a place for both. In fact now I'm wonderign if maybe I should use all wood, except for the hatches, as the prototype used wood running boards, the only metal aprt involved were the grabs and the end supports - and instead of the end supports being the more typical bracket sort, they use what appears to be a solid piece of sheet metal, perhaps with the ends bent up to make it stronger.
ANd I thought this looked like an easy project when I started...
2 steps forward, one step back. Recommended matchign paint color is Scalecoat or Floquil D&H Gray. ANd guess what isn;t available in spray cans? Oh, Scalecoat I which woudl melt the palstic is available in a spray, but Scalecoat II, nope. No FLouil of Polly Scale either. Bottle only.
Sorry, I do not yet own an airbrush, nor do I have a place to set up a spray booth in my apartment. Uggg. Talk about the Charlie Brown syndrome....
Randy, I use Scalecoat (and Floquil) on plastic without issue, although it is applied with an airbrush. Otherwise, use the PollyScale and apply it with a brush - it levels nicely and is easy to use. If you're not going to prime the plastic surface, make sure to wash it before painting - water-based paints aren't compatible with mould release agents or skin oils.I don't know if the colour would be correct for your cars, but you could try automotive grey primer, available in spray cans. If the colour's not right, it would still be a good base on which to apply the PollyScale.
I intend to primer it, since the base car is molded in black, the styrene bits are white, and the wood is, well, wood color.
I'd think the varying shades of base color would make the finish uneven if I didn;t primer it first. Guess I need to see how close the various primers - also various military greys - are to the D&H grey. The only color picture I have of one of these cars is more rust than anything, one of the last 9 left in service in 1971 - they were built in 1937, the base open hopper, 1919. By that time it looks like a fairly generic primer gray color, but with only one photo - not terribly reliable. They B&W builder's photos in the other book make them look lighter than normal primer colors, which sort of jives witht he author of the MR article I'm using, he made a mix of primer gray with a couple of dropf of reefer yellow, although the color photo heading the MR article looks a but too yellow to me - be he based his color off seeing the actual cars in service in the 50's.
I guess in the end, nothing is truly wrong, besides which I almost HAVE to weather these cars with spilled cement, which will hide a lot of sin.
Virtual modeling - talking out things liek this, is why I love these forums. I mentioned my project at the club the other day, and barely got an acknowledgement. But, most of them prefer modern equipment, steam locos and my first generation diesels are foreign bodies to them. Hopefully I will have at least one ready to show at the next show in July. Don't want to rush anything, but there definitely is something to this "I made it myself" thing.
The primer I have in mind is quite light - perhaps not D&H grey as seen on their diesels, but not much darker. The reefer below was airbrushed with Floquil primer, very similar to the auto stuff of which I'm thinking:
If you use a grey primer, regardless of how light or dark it may be, the PollyScale paint should cover it very nicely, even applied by brush.
rrinker Virtual modeling - talking out things like this, is why I love these forums. I mentioned my project at the club the other day, and barely got an acknowledgement. But, most of them prefer modern equipment, steam locos and my first generation diesels are foreign bodies to them. ..
Virtual modeling - talking out things like this, is why I love these forums. I mentioned my project at the club the other day, and barely got an acknowledgement. But, most of them prefer modern equipment, steam locos and my first generation diesels are foreign bodies to them. ..
Perhaps the lack of response is not related so much to the era which you're modelling, but to the fact that you're actually "modelling": building something rather than settling for something off the shelf or, in the case of those hoppers, settling for nothing, as there's nothing otherwise available.
rrinker .....there definitely is something to this "I made it myself" thing.
.....there definitely is something to this "I made it myself" thing.
Yeah, I kinda think so too.
Randy and Wayne!
Interesting discussion!
Thank you both.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
rrinker I guess in the end, nothing is truly wrong, besides which I almost HAVE to weather these cars with spilled cement, which will hide a lot of sin. --Randy
Gidday Randy,
Don't know if you are already aware of, or If you can access them but the March 2009 Model Railroader has an article by Mont Switzer, "Weather a Cement Hopper", and the November 1995 MR has an article by Alan N Haughton, "Modelling a Maine Central Covered Hopper". The latter refers to kitbashing an MDC hopper for heavy duty lime and cement service including weathering.
rrinker Virtual modeling - talking out things liek this, is why I love these forums.
Virtual modeling - talking out things liek this, is why I love these forums.
I thoroughly enjoy threads such as this, so much GOOD information to digest, and hopefully put into practice one day soon.
However if I may be so bold to make a critical observation, while I realise that you are a prolific writer of relevant posts, I wish that you had kept this thread together from day one, dastardly doings by ferocious pups and all, it would have been easier for a Undiplomatic Technological Luddite such as myself to keep track of.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
"JaBear" .....However if I may be so bold to make a critical observation, while I realise that you are a prolific writer of relevant posts, I wish that you had kept this thread together from day one, dastardly doings by ferocious pups and all, it would have been easier for a Undiplomatic Technological Luddite such as myself to keep track of.
.....However if I may be so bold to make a critical observation, while I realise that you are a prolific writer of relevant posts, I wish that you had kept this thread together from day one, dastardly doings by ferocious pups and all, it would have been easier for a Undiplomatic Technological Luddite such as myself to keep track of.
Here's a link to the original post...
...and one to the first update thread...
...and another to the discovery of Micro Mark roof stock
I think that's all of the related ones....so far, at least.
Gidday, Thanks Wayne, when it comes to computers etc, while I acknowledge they're generally useful pieces of kit, I need to personally operate on the KISS principle else I get easily
Cheers,the Bear.
Yeah, Wayne colelcted them all. This section moves so fast that I lost track of them - the original one was more than 6 pages in by the time I got around to updating. And there seems ot be a lag in updating the search - I couldn't find my own post!
As if it isn;t obvious, I work kind of slowly - my actualy layout, I haven't made any progress on in a year (ok, I did paint some track..). There's a connector track to the staging to install, and a passing siding, and one industrial spur, plus the cement complex - benchwork and all - to build yet. I get sidetracked on other projects and divide time between them, or I get a new 'toy' and run it rather than work on the layout - downside of getting the layotu at least somewhat operational. In addition to the hopper project, I've been working on updating my roster of cars I take to shows by painting the trucks and couplers. I have a few more to finish up there, plus this week I should get a package containing 6 more kits to build to go with the show train, which will need resistor wheels. Then I have to take all of them and clean the wheels and verify the resistors are working before packing for the week-long show starting July 2. ANd maybe get one of these hoppers done to show off.
Wayne - I don;t think it was that they aren;t interested in actualy modeling, one of the other members present was the main scenery guy who does really excellent work, and another guy who's primary interest is structure models, he was showing off his scratchbuild cocoa bean silos for the Hershey chocolate plant module, as well as his absolutely amazing rework of the CMR lift bridge from a single track model of a B&O prototype (stick) into a WORKING two track model of a Reading bridge. With appropriate pilings protecting the bridge piers, and working navigation and warning lights. Truly impressive. He had just the bridge itself at the Timonium show in February and the representitve from CMR was floored when he saw it. They never designed the kit to actually operate. So - we definitely have peopel who are craftsman, more skilled than myself. It wa more a visual thing, since I didn;t have anythig to actually show yet.
And I do have Mont's article as well. That's all modern stuff. Colors do matter though, and the weathering ideas are quite useful. If these work out maybe I'll attempt the second class of cement hoppers, also dating from the 30's - the way THOSE were made was to cut up early quad open hoppers, shorten the frames and sides, and add a roof. On my own there, no one's written an article on doing that, that I am aware of.
rrinker ,......If these work out maybe I'll attempt the second class of cement hoppers, also dating from the 30's - the way THOSE were made was to cut up early quad open hoppers, shorten the frames and sides, and add a roof. On my own there, no one's written an article on doing that, that I am aware of. --Randy
,......If these work out maybe I'll attempt the second class of cement hoppers, also dating from the 30's - the way THOSE were made was to cut up early quad open hoppers, shorten the frames and sides, and add a roof. On my own there, no one's written an article on doing that, that I am aware of.
If you have a photo or two of the prototype, it shouldn't be too difficult, although it will depend on what commercially-available models either match the original (pre-conversion) prototype or match, in major categories, the post-conversion carbody, which you could then detail or modify to resemble the converted car.Quite a few years ago, I shortened a couple of Athearn four bay hoppers and quite a few similar Tyco versions of the same car and lettered them for one of my freelance roads. At that time, I wasn't aware of any prototype four-bay cars of this style and thought them to be fanciful creations of the model industry. They're a little shorter than would be prototypical, but their hopper configuration is more prototypical (deeper) than that of the MDC triples which were available at that time. The very nice Ulrich all-metal cars were beyond my budget. Not counting paint and lettering, shortening the Athearn/Tyco car is probably a 15 minute job:
Accurail offers a very nice offset-side triple, and Bowser has several variations of Pennsy rib-sided quads.
Quick look at the photos in the hopper book make it seem like the Bowser H21 quad woudl make a reasonable starting point. The basic shape and side rib pattern are close if not exact. Eh, a project for some other time, after I complete some of the ones I alreayd have started.
One of the guys in the club kitbashed a different open hopper by combining two stock kits. As a joke he took the remaining two ends and cemented them together making a single truck car - every once in a while it magically appears on a train going around the layout.