My dad dosen't think I can build a layout.

[Anonymous]

Dear Trains.com Bretheren,


I have a small 4x4 table that I am already bored with. After seeing my engines being run on the Grand StrandModel Railroad Club's layout, I realized that my small onwe would not do. So I study the measurments of my room today and went into the kitchen. My mom has always liked trains and she suggested measuring the blue rug that we have on top of our white carpet.

So I did and came up with the measurment of 8"10x6"5. So I improvised to 9x6.
My mom thought It was great and decided that she would like to help build it.
When my dad walked in from outside, I tiold him what I wanted the table to be. His reaction was not what I expected.

Instead of supprting me and being a good father, he just raised his voice and said "THAT IS UGE, YOU CAN'T DO THAT. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW." Then my mom cut in and said "Dear it is just 9x6 feet, that would fit in our unused 10x10 geust room. I think its a great idea".
Then My dad said, HES JUST 13, HE CAN'T DO IT. ITS SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE DONE THAT WILL ROT AWAY WHEN HE GETS BORED WITH IT LIKE HE DID WITH HIS SMALL ONE.[V][V][V][V]

Well I think he is wrong. That will leave an emotional scar behined with me for years. I don't think of my father liked I used to before that unnesscesary outburst. He just dosen't belive in me. He is not a train person and thinks that trains are dead boring and is trying his best to get me away from trains.[V][V][V][V]

I belive I can do it, so does the following people I asked. My mother, my grandmother, my aunt, my uncle, my sister, my great grandmother, my grandfather (Mom side) , my grandmother (Mom side), my aunt (Mom side), my uncle (Mom side), my grandfathers friend and my fellow train nut Mr, Richard and his wife, Mrs. Audrey. So lend your support, do you think I can do it.[V][V][V][V]


Signed,
Nicholas

[brothaslide]

Dear Nicholas,

First of all, don't post your parents names here on the board - they didn't give you permission to do that - you need to respect their privacy.

Secondly, If you want to build a layout so bad, earn the money to buy the materials needed (mowing lawns, paper route, etc.). If you show good faith this way, your father might be more supportive and might even give you a few bucks to help.

Finally, cut your father some slack - he might have had a bad day or be going through a difficult time. As a father I know I'm not perfect, and yes, we fathers do make mistakes. And I have "barked" at my daughters on occasion when I'm feeling some stress. It doesn't make it right but it does happen some times.

Go talk to your dad about it. Don't try to work around him through your mother and relatives, this will just really get him upset and it is not treating him with the proper respect - It will help you to get over that "emotional scar".

Good luck. . .

[Anonymous]

Nicholas,
I have a dad who although does not really enjoy trains, he helps me with benchwork and wiring, so I do not know how it feels, however just keep going and hope for the best. I have major frustation because I have very little space and less money for a layout. I think you could do it but kids our age are not going to make an award winner on the first try ( I am 12 ) just keep that in mind. really, unless you want spectacular sencery ( I do not suggest that ) it should be no different than the 4x4, just bigger. hope you get it solved.

[Anonymous]

Hmm how to respond:
I have heard the same thing on numerous projects I undertook.
I think my fathers real exscuse was "he is sucking my money out of my pocket on wasted ventures" My father didnt finally be quiet until I built my own horse drawn funeral carriage yes it rolled and had the fifth wheel curtains the whole nine yards I was doing a hunted house at the time to make everyone comfortable. But if you have your mom's consent I think you have half a chance.
also I would suggest a 4 x 8 layout there are tons of very interesting layouts done for that size of plywood. One other question what is it that your father would rather you do playstation, now there is a cheap brain sucking non creative hobby and look how cheap it is NOT! ZMight as well support you in your creative endeavor there are so many facets to fill your time with instead of being outo n the streets doing drugs or what not. My grandpa was theone who fueled my interest in trains not my dad. I would say ocme up with a compromise
of sorts. The only reason I would guess the other layout hasnt been touched is that you can only watxch them go around and around so long. Remeber unless the next layout is creative with industires and sidings it will just be a bigger circle of track that will get boring again. N scale you can get a lot of track in a small space HO is ok if you do 1800's era those are small locos and cars.
I have already started my 2 year old on his way to a train loving way of life. We have done two railfan trips this year to see the challenger 3985 and he helps and watches me work on my newest layout I love spending time with him and I know he does too. Of course it is still up to your parents but I would be excited to hear my son wanting to do a layout instead of stupid shoot em up games with death and destruction.

[Anonymous]

Also, although I can see you are upset, what you posted was disrespectful to your father. we may not like what our parents do sometimes, the 10 commandments say we are to honor our father and mother.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Oklahoma Train Nut

Also, although I can see you are upset, what you posted was disrespectful to your father. we may not like what our parents do sometimes, the 10 commandments say we are to honor our father and mother.

[#ditto]

Yelling doesn't get you anywhere...

[Hawks05]

if you put your mind to it you can do it.

my mom likes the idea of the railroad stuff, just not going to the LHS with me because i take so long. she starts talking to the guys about how her grandpa worked in one of the shops. my dad on the other hand doesn't want anything to do with it. he just thinks its a little kids thing. even though my friend who is 43 i think had a huge layout, and now the one in his new house is going to be even bigger.

just try and show your dad what you'll learn by building this. ask him to help with the construction even of the benchwork. my dad pretty much did most of my benchwork for me. i did some but not much. once that was up he said it was mine and i could do what i wanted.

[Big_Boy_4005]

OK Nicholas, you have this large project in mind, that's great. Butting heads with your dad directly is probably not the best way to reach your goal. You have a 4' x 4' table now, just slow down, and simply add another 2' x 4' to it. Don't worry about making things permanent, just keep adding and playing.

Show your dad that it is holding your interest, and that you are serious. Like the others said, earn some money and buy some things yourself, it will prove that you are sincere. Then add to the table again. See where this is going. Patience my boy, you are young. Rome wasn't built in a day.[swg]

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by unionpacific4018

Hmm how to respond:
I have heard the same thing on numerous projects I undertook.
I think my fathers real exscuse was "he is sucking my money out of my pocket on wasted ventures" My father didnt finally be quiet until I built my own horse drawn funeral carriage yes it rolled and had the fifth wheel curtains the whole nine yards I was doing a hunted house at the time to make everyone comfortable. But if you have your mom's consent I think you have half a chance.
also I would suggest a 4 x 8 layout there are tons of very interesting layouts done for that size of plywood. One other question what is it that your father would rather you do playstation, now there is a cheap brain sucking non creative hobby and look how cheap it is NOT! ZMight as well support you in your creative endeavor there are so many facets to fill your time with instead of being outo n the streets doing drugs or what not. My grandpa was theone who fueled my interest in trains not my dad. I would say ocme up with a compromise
of sorts. The only reason I would guess the other layout hasnt been touched is that you can only watxch them go around and around so long. Remeber unless the next layout is creative with industires and sidings it will just be a bigger circle of track that will get boring again. N scale you can get a lot of track in a small space HO is ok if you do 1800's era those are small locos and cars.
I have already started my 2 year old on his way to a train loving way of life. We have done two railfan trips this year to see the challenger 3985 and he helps and watches me work on my newest layout I love spending time with him and I know he does too. Of course it is still up to your parents but I would be excited to hear my son wanting to do a layout instead of stupid shoot em up games with death and destruction.

[#ditto] Semi,agree.
My dad always supported me,to the fact he got things for the railroad whether or not I wanted them,or not.
Dad,while he was still alive liked the trains,and after I grew up,moved away,he would ask me how the layout was going. I've been doing this for over 40 years.

[Fergmiester]

A good layout takes time and money and more time.

Instead of going hog wild from the get go think about expanding slowly. Any chance of expanding your 4x4 by 2 foot modules at a time? It will give you time to think ahead and not make costly mistakes. Many of us here have waited 20, 30 if not more, years to get what we want and the end result is still 10 years away.

Good things take time
Honest

Regards
Fergie

[Hawks05]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Rome wasn't built in a day.[swg]

i hate that saying, you're sounding like my dad now. only he has this thing with a old bull and young bull. i really hate things like that.

but its true.

[Kiwi Down Under]

Nicholas
Show them you can do it, but try something different and who knows, your dad just might end up doing it with you. You say "dosen't think I can build a layout." but in reality are you intending to build it, or just put it together...
I can see where your dads coming from, unless its a challange for you, your bound to loose interest. How about trying something different, and start by making it yourself instead of just buying it...
Have a look at my web site www.gscalechuffchuff.com and you may find by building the carrages etc first instead of just assembling something means a lot more.

Besides you dont need much money to begin with, just some cardboard and some pva glue. Once you get the carrage bodies done talk your dad into buying the alloy for the undercarage. Does not take much. Next the wheels and by the time you have got this far whats the bet your dad will want to see if it goes on the tracks. Thats the time to say dad pay up or help me build them...next is a loc and so on---- but dont expect everthing overnight.
Try for the largest size you can, G scale if possible, better still, an outside train. Does not have to be much to start off with, Even if its a single end to end track along a fence , it will grow.
Convince your mom how good it will look in the garden first, less room for the weeds, this ways theres no mess inside, etc.

Have a go,
Tony

[Anonymous]

Nicholas,
To paraphrase the age old addage, " I think you can, I think you can,,,".[:D]

Better still, with careful and selective language, if you can get your Dad to help out, you may find that even HE can get sucked into the hobby. What I mean by that is as you take steps in construction, ask your Dad HIS opinion on things. Examples? "Dad, I'm thinking of going with a 42 inch layout height, what do you think?" or if Dad knows a little about electronics. " Dad, I'm thinking about 14 guage feeder wires for the track, what do you think?". Just remember one thing. If you commit to it, do it. Don't start anything you cannot finish. Showing yourself and Dad that you can keep after a project long after the inital novelty of it wears off will pay major benefits later in life.[^]

[Anonymous]

You really need to edit your post NOW, Nicholas by removing ALL your family names. You are opening yourself up to big trouble, either from your family whose privacy you are compromising or from dangerous types who you have told who you are, how old you are and where you live. You could find yourself suffering more than "emotional scars" if some mentally deranged type decides you could be a possible victim.

The internet is not a safe place. Moderators should step in for your own safety.

Fix this NOW and act more responsibly in the future. It's the first step in gaining respect at home.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek

You really need to edit your post NOW, Nicholas by removing ALL your family names. You are opening yourself up to big trouble, either from your family whose privacy you are compromising or from dangerous types who you have told who you are, how old you are and where you live. You could find yourself suffering more than "emotional scars" if some mentally deranged type decides you could be a possible victim.

The internet is not a safe place. Moderators should step in for your own safety.

Fix this NOW and act more responsibly in the future. It's the first step in gaining respect at home.

Wayne

[#ditto] I wouldn't post your parents or any family members names here. As for your layout, I'm sorry to hear your Dad doesn't support your enthusiasm. Though my dad isn't a real train person, he takes an intrest in kit building, and, since he is a GM car dealer, always asks me if that's an EMD unit when we see a train. [:)]

[cwclark]

We know you can do it but you must also realize that you are only 13 and that you are your father's son and that going toe to toe with him is not very respectful...you have your whole life ahead of you and one day you can have that dream layout you've always wanted...it takes time ....do you know that you will be 18 in just 5 years and 5 years goes by quicker than you know...have you ever thought that your dad (who pays the bills by the way) might want that room for his own thing someday?...give it time...one day you will be in a house that you own and can make your own decisions by then...until then just be satisfied with the 4 x 4 layout...as much as i love trains, i didn't even get that when i was your age and if i ever confronted my dad like the way you did and if he ever found out about the things you say about him if i said them about my dad, he would'a back handed me into next tuesday...Let it run the course..you will be on your own someday and can build a layout to meet your wildest dreams, but for now, Dad is still the boss and until you are of age and can be your own boss i'd advise you to do as your parent's say for you to do....One day you will get to do it on your own terms!.....Chuck[:D]

[Hawks05]

cwclark you are right, 5 years do go by fast. seems like yesterday i was in 8th grade, now i'm going to be a senior and i turn 18 in 2 weeks to the day.

i have a small layout for now because in a year i'll be going to college and living in a dorm so i won't be able to have a layout. if these last 5 years have gone by this fast i can only imagine what the next 5 will be like and then i'll hopefully have my own place.

remember it doesn't have to be the biggest layout now because in a few years you'll be out of the house and won't have a layout unless you keep going home.

start small then when you're on your own build that huge layout you've dreamed about.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: "ITS SOMETHING THAT WILL ROT AWAY WHEN HE GETS BORED WITH IT LIKE HE DID WITH HIS SMALL ONE.

1. Most Fathers jump at the chance to involve teenager's in a positive 'learning' experience. He obviously thinks this would be a waste of time.

2. He may know something WE don't.

3. Building a layout (not including rolling stock) costs money - requires tools, and materials. Can you pay for it - or even half ?

4. If YOU prove him wrong, what have you really accomplished? (think about it).
5.If HE proves himself right, then what has he accomplished?
I think there is a 'tug-of-war' going on and you will NOT be successfull unless it can become a JOINT venture. It will only succeed if it becomes a two-man project.

FIRST off, you need a plan. Atlas and Model Railroader offer beginner's plans for a 4 X 8 layout.
SECOND, you need to contribute financially, to show you are serious.
THIRD, you "NEED" his help to do it, and would welcome his participation and input. -Be convincing if you hope to accompli***his. He might buy into it.

If this cannot be accomplished, show up regularly around the Model Railroad Club, and volunteer to do 'work', so they know you're serious. You might eventually aquire the skills you need for later on.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomotive10

Dear Trains.com Bretheren,

I have a small 4x4 table that I am already bored with...

Instead of supprting me and being a good father, he just raised his voice and said "THAT IS HUGE, YOU CAN'T DO THAT. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW."
...
Then My dad said, HES JUST 13, HE CAN'T DO IT. ITS SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE DONE THAT WILL ROT AWAY WHEN HE GETS BORED WITH IT LIKE HE DID WITH HIS SMALL ONE.[V][V][V][V]

Perhaps you need to learn how to "operate" that small layout. The WISE Division had someone do a presentation on that last year. The same town has two names, depending on which way you come at it. With track warrants and such, it became possible for 2 people to operate a small (4X8) layout that wasn't much more than an oval with a few turnouts.

As far as not knowing how, this sounds like a <drum roll> learning experience. Let's see what you can learn: carpentry (rough and finish), electricity, electronics, history, kit building with its myriad of skills required, plastic fabrication, metal fab (if you eventually get into brassbashing or scratchbuilding), etc. etc.

And truth be told, you probably will get bored with it in a few years when "girls" becomes your next hobby. Been there, done that. You'll come back to it eventually, if you ever leave it completely. Not all boys do.

Methinks dad had a bad day. Rather than butting heads (NEVER productive), ask him why he thinks you can't do it. Let him answer that himself. Don't pressure for an answer right away. Let him think about it. There are probably other issues here and he's going for the simplistic approach that always worked before when you were younger.

Another idea is to build the layout around the walls in 2 foot (or narrower) by 4 foot sections. That way it's movable if that ever becomes an issue. Ntrak standards might not be a bad idea, because then you can have your own layout, and still take pieces of it to the Ntrak club (should you decide to join one).

Whether you need it or not, find a way to make dad needed. And the others are right. It beats video or computer games for a "hobby".

[Anonymous]

First of all, My dad was off and had had a very relaxing day, secondly I should have told him 4x8 instead of my original sign. I was mad so I put my parents name son their, to make my mother the good guy like she was and to make my dad the bad guy.

You were right Oklahoma Train Nut, I was not being the christian I am. Recently I told my dad another size 4x8. And he thought it was brilliant and agrred to help me. I will put in a 2x4 stud off one in to put my much wanted passenger terminal and add another to build a loop.

We decided to use DCC, after seeing waht It coulld do on the club layout. He wants to have a yard like the one on the club layout, 4x8. I have decided to model the chigago area because a number of railroads ran in chigago, to much to name now. Well, it all worked out, my dad is happy and quite frankly so am I.

Nicholas

[Anonymous]

I am glad that you and your dad are going to work on a layout together. A 4x8 foot layout with DCC sounds like a better beginner layout than a 9x6 foot layout. And with the DCC you can always expand from your 4x8 layout.

Good Luck with the layout.[:)]

[FThunder11]

I'M WITH YOU 100% NICHOLAS!!!

[AlcoRS11Nut]

Fantastic! I have a 4x8 layout (for the last 15 years) and with the track plan I have (I got it out of one of the Atlas books, I think it is called the "yard master" or something to that effect) there is room for expansion.[:D] But don't think of that yet, just get the basics down first. With DCC I'm sure you will have a blast, I am thinking of switching to DCC as soon as I can get the money[:(].

"You can do it Nicky..."
-Little Nicky
(sorry, I just had to say that)

[Anonymous]

Great, loco10 !!!! I wish I had your space. I also have a hard time respecting my parents too. keep us posted !

[Anonymous]

I to am building my first true layout. I am about your age so don’t think that you are too young to build a model railroad. I on the other hand am building a 9ft 11in x 9ft 2in layout!
If I may I would like to give you a few pointers. You should get a good idea of what you need in your layout. I think you said a Chicago area layout. Try and find pictures of small buildings in Chicago. When you have the pictures look at different hobby stores and web sites to find buildings that look right for the layout. I would recommend you make a spread sheet with the hobby store or web site you saw the item, the item number, a brief description of the item, quantity, and finally price. I would recommend the first URL below to get some ideas of what you need.

Also

You may want to look at woodland scenics for some good trees, foliage, bushes, and so on. See the last two links. But remember not to go to fast. Any good layout can take years to fund and build.

http://www.internettrains.com
http://www.internettrains.com/scenery-woodland-scenics.html
http://www.woodlandscenics.com/

[nfmisso]

I strongly advise against RCC, because at the present time there is only one supplier, and it is a proprietary system - like Apple Computers. There will be a niche for it, but it will always be more expensive.

In addition, you mentioned that the club you went to has DCC, I would suggest that you go with the same brand - if you can - so that you have a pool of support for when you have questions.

[Anonymous]

Who ever mentioned RCC[?]

After reading what "nfmisso" said I must agree.


I never liked Apple computers. (See last psost)
Had one and the screen would turn green. Looked kinda like night vision![#offtopic]

[Roadtrp]

locomotive10,

I'm glad it seems to be working out with your dad.

I'd like to tell you a couple of things from my experience; if that's OK (I'm a 52-year-old dad with two adult children).

1) Dad's aren't any more perfect than you are. We try to do our best, but we are still human and make mistakes. It's not like God hits us with the 'perfect stick' when we become parents. We still struggle with some of the same things you struggle with. You like to be cut a little slack when you make a mistake. Please cut us dads a little slack when we make one.

2) This is something I was really bad with when I was younger. I was so concerned about keeping my children from experiencing failure that I was reluctant to let them try new and different things. Sometimes in our effort to make things as 'perfect' as possible for our kids, we end up screwing things up. As I've gotten older, I've realized (both for my kids AND MYSELF), that you need to be willing to take the chance of failing if you are ever going to be really successful. This realization doesn't always come to us as soon as it should. But try to understand that your Dad may just be trying to protect you when he says things like he said to you.

Try your best to love your dad and get along with him. I know it can be hard. I didn't get along with my dad. But now that I've had kids of my own, I've been able to understand why things can be hard for parents. I really wish I had gotten along with him better. Its been a big empty spot in my life.

[Anonymous]

Actually Model Railroading has just taught you it's first unexpected lesson. You learned that it many cases it's timing and method of how you approach someone that determines success. I think your excitement lead you to surprise your Dad. You also didn't think that he might not be as excited as you about a new layout.

It seems both you and your Dad calmed down and worked things out. I think next time you'll take a better (and more sucessfull) tact with your Dad.

Good luck with your new layout Nicholas. Also enjoy your time with Dad.

I speak as someone who is both a son and a Dad.

Also when you fail or encounter difficulty the best thing is look at what you learned not what the ****** you were thinking.

DT

[Wdlgln005]

Model Railroading can teach so many unexpected things.

Planning & preparation will be a big part of expanding your layout. Take a good look at your 4x4. What part did you like? What went wrong? Can anything be salvaged? Could a track link in some way the new space with the old?

It's the process of going through these questions that will become important. Then you can asses your skills, and take the time to learn how to do them. THere ought to be something that you are good at. Have fun and try to be thankful for the time that you and your family will spend together.