Thanks David.
I'm fortunate in that I'm in DCC as I wouldn't be too fond of higher starting voltages.
Ironically my 35 year old MRC Tech II DC power pack finally went "kaputzky!".
davidmbedardIf it's MTH ho and recent.....then it'll be ok for DCC.....dunno about MTH and DC.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Dave,
Just checking: Does this include the new HO IRT New York Subway cars?
Looking at their description for the Marklin (3 rail) HO Big Boy, MTH says it will not run on 2 rail. This is not a Protosound 3 issue, but a wiring pickup issue (they also have European NEM standard wheels). Usually 3 rail HO locomotives for the Marklin system do not have their wheels/drivers insulated from each other. You would need to swap for a set with one wheel/driver insulated on each axle and probably isolate the insulated wheel/drivers from the frame. Then rewire the locomotive for 2 rail pickup. Since MTH makes 2 rail versions, it's probably easier to just buy one of those.
Paul
I know this is WAY after the fact from when this was first talked about, but would you have any idea if the Protosound 3E+ will work on regular 2 rail HO? I bought one new on clearance and it acts like a short on my Digitrax DSC system. If I touch the DCC leads directly to the center third rail bar and one wheel, it will move, but no sound. MTH hasn't been very knowledgeable on the subject either and their manual doesn't specify if a 3 rail loco will work on 2 rail. If it's not compatible, I'll just end up gutting it and going with an aftermarket one hard wired and sell the board on ebay to someone that has need to replace a dead board. Thanks.
Hi Dave,
Sorry, I've been away from the forum for a while and missed your post. The "polarity" issue only applies to Protosound 2 decoders in O and G scales. All MTH HO engines are PS3 and are are not sensitive to signal polarity. Track power polarity is a separate issue that is the same as any 2-rail layout.
Sounds like you're well on your way with DCS and a DC power supply. Enjoy.
My hobby dealer was able to get me squared away. The specs for HO operation with DCS are in the locomotive manual, not the DCS manual. I connected a 16.5VDC power supply to the "Fixed One" input and it worked fine.
Thank you for your information, Dave. Based upon your feedback elsewhere, I've decided to order a DCS system. In preparation I download a copy of the manual, but after reading through it (no easy task :) I am confused about the power source for the TIU for HO operation. I cannot tell if the input to the fixed voltage can be AC or DS, and if DC is it polarity sensitive?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Hi rk_dave,
Welcome to the forum!
I think Randy's diagnosis is probably correct, you probably have a bad supercap. However, a bad super cap is usually a fail / no-fail item. From your description it sounds like your problem is more intermittent. It could be as simple as a loose connector between the decoder and supercap. Follow your plan of running the GP35 before doing anything else. If the GP35 is OK I'd suggest opening the FA and checking for a loose connection before sending it in.
Thank you for the suggestions, Randy. I have a GP-35 on order which is supposed to arrive this month - if it exhibits the same behavior I'll investigate the DCC system, and if not I'll send the FA-1 back to MTH for a look at the decoder.
I'm only using one hand held on the Digitrax, but I am using duplex. I try operating with the handheld hard wired to see if that might make a difference.
I have a set of FA's and I've run them for quite a long time on two different DCC systems, home and club, both Digitrax, with no problems at all. No lost address, no random shutdowns. There might be a problem with yours if it does this. On these I think there is a supercapcitor used to retain the decoder settings - older ones and O scale ones use batteries, or used to. If this doesn;t work properly, any configuration data could be lost when the power is turned off. Andif it actually does through the engine shutdown sequence while running - I don;t think that's supposed to even be triggerable while in motion, only when stopped. That COULD possibly happen if the loco is selected on more than one throttle, and they are sending conflicting commands. Make sure to properly dispatch each address after running a loco. You cna do an OpSw 36 reset to clear the memory on the command station just to be sure. See the back of your system manual for the procedure.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I just purchased one of the MTH FA-1's. I operated with Digitrax and for the most part the locomotive runs fine. However, the loco does have its quirks. after about 2-3 hours of operation, the locomotive forgets its address. The first time this happened, I was afraid there was a serious problem; however, a call to their tech support gave me a solution (select loco 55, pom, set cv 55 to 55 and the address resets to 3).
Now I expect this occasional reset. However, I was running yesterday and noticed that the sound would go through the engine shut down sequence. Lights, horn, speed control were all normal, and an F3 brought the engine sound back.
My question is are these little glitches a known issue when running the Protosound 3 on DCC? If so, will changing to DCS eliminate the problems?
Yep. I had 2 of my Aces updated with the new software. Now advanced consisting works!
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Any news in this topic? Is this update available? Is it possible to send models to MTH to load a new software?
Tony,
I have the software you need and already updated one of my locomotives to make sure everything is working. Send me an e-mail (davehikel@hotmail.com) and I'll send you what you need.
Hi Hamltnblue,
MTH is expanding the DCC support in Protosound 3 locomotives.
Advanced consisting and custom speed mapping are included in this update along with function mapping.
If you'd like to see what all has been added and how to access it (once your locomotive has been updated) you can download the revised SD70 owners manual HERE.
Individual sound volumes were still left out of this update. I can't say why. As far as I know there's no technical reason it couldn't be included in a future update. However, if you have the necessary DCS hardware to update the locomotive firmware you also have the ability to adjust the individual sound volumes in DCS. Sound volume changes made in DCS are retained in DCC mode.
Because then there would be no reason to buy a DCS system!
And that's not really cynical, it's probably pretty close to the truth.
Is there a reason why MTH won't expand the dcc compatability on their loco's? It has been asked for numerous times for the ability to adjust the individual sound volumes, as well as consisting and speed matching options.
Springfield PA
Hi Dave thanks for the update and help with this is much appreciated
Cheers Tony
Hi Tony,
I confirmed with MTH R&D that you will need the new loader software. Apparently it was posted on the website briefly, but a bug was found and it was pulled down. I'll be testing the bug fix later today. If it works I'll set you up with the correct loader software.
Hi Dave Just confirming that I have A DCS revL system With V4.20 Intsalled Also Computer Is XP Using the usb Connection with v2.20 loader ,Seems strange the Other two srec Files Load Ok But the Middle One Does not ,also the sound file has a problem that it registers as an Ho sound file And will not load into The ps3.0 system in the loco so I gather there is a few issues to be worked through as yet but it will be worth the wait , i have printed off the new manual from the site and the increase in Dcc Capability is a major step foward
Thanks Again
Tony
twhite Dave: I'm certainly not going to bash MTH, I own their Daylight passenger set and it's just beautiful--well detailed and very smooth rolling. It's simply the best passenger car set that I own. However, as a strictly DC operator, I sure wouldn't object if MTH decided to at least throw us a bone with some other locomotive offerings--I'd pick up their AC-6 Cab Forward in a New York Minute if it were offered strictly DC--sound or not--but as is, the starting voltage for even decent operation in DC seems to be so far in the last quarter quadrant of the standard power pack that even at 'full bore', the locomotive barely creeps down the track. At least that's what I found at my LHS when the owner demonstrated it for me. As I said, if MTH could also offer DC only for a lot of us, he just might see more 'turnover' in his locos. That AC-6 is an extremely handsome loco, but it would be useless on my layout. Just my thoughts. Tom
Dave:
I'm certainly not going to bash MTH, I own their Daylight passenger set and it's just beautiful--well detailed and very smooth rolling. It's simply the best passenger car set that I own.
However, as a strictly DC operator, I sure wouldn't object if MTH decided to at least throw us a bone with some other locomotive offerings--I'd pick up their AC-6 Cab Forward in a New York Minute if it were offered strictly DC--sound or not--but as is, the starting voltage for even decent operation in DC seems to be so far in the last quarter quadrant of the standard power pack that even at 'full bore', the locomotive barely creeps down the track. At least that's what I found at my LHS when the owner demonstrated it for me.
As I said, if MTH could also offer DC only for a lot of us, he just might see more 'turnover' in his locos. That AC-6 is an extremely handsome loco, but it would be useless on my layout.
Just my thoughts.
Tom
Hi Tom,
I know there are a lot of folks like yourself who are sticking with DC for one reason or another. I can certainly sympathize with your situation. When a really good model of a prototype you want comes out it sucks when it's power train is not configured the way you want it.
The best long term advice I can offer is keep asking for DC versions. When I talk to the guys at MTH they're pretty upfront about their intentions. They want to make stuff that people are willing buy, whatever it is. If enough people ask for something often enough they'll make it. Obviously enough people have been asking for DC versions that they're giving it a try. Whether they do more DC versions in the future will depend on sales.
I don't have any inside knowledge of MTH's sales but we can get some hint of how the sales of DC models are going off their website. MTH has a product locator feature for finding dealers who have a particular item in stock. If MTH still has them in-stock in Maryland that shows up on the product locator. If you look through the DC and Protosound 3 versions of the models that have been offered both ways over a period of time we can see some mixed results. The PS3 versions of the SD70's have obviously sold well. They've had multiple production runs of the PS3 versions and most of the item numbers are no longer in-stock. The sales of the DC/DCC ready versions of the SD70's don't appear to have been as strong. Far more of the DC versions are still in stock and have been in stock for months. On the other hand, the DC versions of the UP Turbines seem to be selling out faster than the PS3 versions. We don't know how many of each version have actually been manufactured, so we shouldn't read too much into this data. But it is interesting to see that the DC versions are having at least some level of success in the market.
Unfortunately, even with a lot of campaigning, you're probably in for a long wait for a second production run of the AC-6's. One option I might suggest is taking a look at the DCS Remote Commander. The DCSRC is a stripped down wireless remote control system that MTH started shipping with their starter sets last Christmas. It allows you access to a limited number of the command mode sound features on a conventional DC layout, much like a QSI Quantum Engineer or MRC Black Box. However, there is one BIG difference. The DCSRC allows you to control Protosound 3 engines in scale miles per hour, just like full command mode. You can connect the DCSRC to the output of any DC power supply that runs your layout (or a selected block) and run any PS3 engine. Even if your DC power supply can only maintain 12 volts at full throttle that's enough for the DCSRC to run the engine at prototypical speeds. I realize that buying a DCSRC would effectively add another $40 to an already expensive locomotive, but if the AC-6 is something you'd really like to have it might be worth a look next time you're at your LHS.
Thee just i no way to make working realistic sound and have it work on DC exactly like any other DC loco witht he motor connected to the track pickups with no sound chips and so forth. Outside of non-smooth DC as the power source anyway. Real locos make sounds sitting still, so the sound loco on DC needs some amount of voltage to get noises before the motor turns. Since this is typically a bit over 5 volts, and because most DC controls concentrate the fine part of the control range in the lower part (MRC 'taper-wound rheostat', anyone?), you end up with a very short tange from stop to ludicrous speed. DC and sound just don;t mix well, and any option to correct that may cause incompatibilities with older plain DC non-sound locos. Perhaps an on-board battery for JUST the sound system, so the loco can make sounds at the slightest crack of the throttle. Otherwise, if sound is important, consider DCC. If sound doesn't matter, then DC works just fine.
The best option would be a straight DC version like they've done for some other models, no fancy electronics between the track power pickups and the motor. Compatibility with other makes of DC locos should be good.
I sent an e-mail to Dave KrebiehlMTH's, VP of R&D, asking for clarification, but I think I know what's going on. I suspect MTH's webmaster has jumped the gun and posted software (the .srec files) that the current DCS Loader program can't handle.
You'll notice when you unzip the files you get one text file, one ".mth" file, and three ".srec" files. The ".mth" file contains the locomotive's sounds and speed table. I believe the ".srec" files include the necessary code changes to support the expanded DCC support. However, the current version of the DCS Loader software (V2.20) cannot edit the memory range necessary to install the software. That's why you're having problems. I would suggest you stop trying to load the code until I get confirmation of this from Dave K. If the new DCS Loader software isn't ready for release I'll see if I can take care of you with a beta copy.
Just for clarification, please confirm that you own a DCS system and that you are trying to perform the software updates with V2.20 of the DCS Loader program. It might also be useful to know what type of computer, operating system, and serial port you are using.
hi Dave what i downloaded was the protosound 3 update this link is for the heritage sp ho scale but it appears to be the same .srec Files as the rest
http://www.mthtrains.com/sites/default/files/download/soundfiles/h10x_sd70ace62bns110304af4x.zip
I will Have to make another call tommorrow to MTH one file of the tree refuses to open
cheers Tony (dx8007)
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Hi DX8007,
I'm curious what exactly you downloaded. Can you give a link to the download? Once I know what you have I can try to help.
Dave
I have downloaded the newly relaeased PS3.0 files from the website but one of the .srec files will not load ,the other two Load OK But you have to load them in the correct order otherwise the loco stops working ,I have spoken to one of the technicians at MTH about the issue he told me to try a few different things but to no avail so I will Have to ring him again on Monday to see if it can be sorted my guess is something has gone wrong with ( mth_hod_fpga_version_B4-hdr .srec) file while being compressed as a zip file
Arras88 Hi Dave,It might be obvious that they improve CV29 as well. However, it is better to ask :) As a beta tester could you check if it is possible to switch direction by adding one to the value for CV29. It is impossible to change a direction now.
Hi Dave,It might be obvious that they improve CV29 as well. However, it is better to ask :) As a beta tester could you check if it is possible to switch direction by adding one to the value for CV29. It is impossible to change a direction now.
Hi Arras88,
I'm not curtain if they have added the direction bit to CV 29 or not. I will definitely ask. I won't expect a reply for a could days because of the holiday. I suspect they may well have added the direction bit because of some changes that are coming in the way DCS functions. I'll post the answer here when I find out.
They probably didn't add the direction bit because the decoders are always in an MTH loco and they install them. So there isn't a problem with direction because of a backwards mounted decoder. For advanced consist you would tell the loco which direction it is facing through those CV's