Union Pacific Sues Athearn

[genelbradleyjr]

I was interested in hearing what everybody thought The Union Pacific Railroad filing a lawsuit or injunction against Athearn and I believe one other mfg. that they were not licensed to use the Union Pacific Name or likeness. Any comments guys?

[the-big-blow]

BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR.

[Anonymous]

UP is fully within its rights to sue Athearn and Lionel for trademark infringement on their current and recent past trademarks (17 years I believe?), although I'll admit some of their allegation (as published on page 10 (?) of the August MR) are patently ridiculous except to the most ignorant.

Regarding trademarks of fallen flags absorbed by the UP Borg (You WILL be assimilated!), I don't think they really have a leg to stand on with roads they absorbed decades ago. I think the D&RGW/SP decision of some months back lends some credence to that, although I expect UP appealed that decision (whiners). There might be room to debate on more recent acquisitions, such as the C&NW (1994/5), but roads they absorbed in the 1800s and prior to, say, 1950 or 60 ought to be fair game as their trademarks should long since have expired. I don't think heralds hanging around on a few ancient boxcars that they haven't bothered to repaint constitutes keeping a trademark "active". Obviously the UP lawyers feel differently.

The thing that made me laugh is that according to MRs quotes, it leads me to believe they're actually trying to trademark a shade of paint. Wouldn't the paint company own that? If the locomotive's paint fades (as it will), does that mean the paint color is no longer protected? (You gotta think like a lawyer here).

Some of UP's assertions are totally ridiculous, more than likely thrown in as "throw-aways" for negotiating.

[Junctionfan]

does other railroads require a licence to use their trademarks?

[cwclark]

The way i see it, they are a bunch of greedy pigs gobbling up anything in their path...Don't they realize that modelers (especially UP modelers) are a source of free advertising for them? What are they going to do now?...Go for the modelers that model their railroads and sue them also?...I have modeled SP for years and I was in the process of upgrading to a lot of UP stuff after the takeover of SP... I kind'a like their paint schemes and all, but now...I'm not so sure..I really don't think I want to model a railroad that is so greedy that they have to pick on the little (and the big) guys dedicated to this hobby....Chuck

[Don Gibson]

Union Pacific to collect moneys needs to know how many UP units Athearn sold.
I gather Athearn is not volunteering that info. Next step?

If you were Athearn would you pay 3% of an assembled RTR or Genesis and pass along the cost - adding distributor and dealer markups (approx.9%) to the retail selling price?That gets them off the hook and passes the UP surcharge on to us.
UP gets $3 of every hundred, and we get $9 (of which $6 goes to the distributor and delaer) as cost of inventorying and doing business.

Frankly, I hope Athearn doesn't cave - but they don't have the resourses to fight UP. A
Nice compromise might be If they sold UP shells and chassis' separately. UP's 'take' would be drastically cut, and our UP 'premium' would be negligable.
That's an easy out - however Athearn's goal has always been to 'undersell' the market to get us to buy their product.

In the the final analysis, it's what we will pay to get what we want.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by genelbradleyjr

I was interested in hearing what everybody thought The Union Pacific Railroad filing a lawsuit or injunction against Athearn and I believe one other mfg. that they were not licensed to use the Union Pacific Name or likeness. Any comments guys?

I suggest you either use the search function or scroll down over the first several pages. This has been discussed to death to the annoyance of nearly everyone I've talked to except for a few of the more childish members who have a need to spew "my train can beat up your train" nonsense.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: does other railroads require a licence to use their trademarks?

as far as i know, Amtrak and CSX do.

[Anonymous]

UP has a right to licens there name, and the courts will decide on Fallen Flags, hopefully there allowed to licens SP/SSW, D&RGW, CN&W, Ect...

[jsoderq]

Not to beat the dead horse but- The LAW states that the trademark must be continously protected.( UP Fails) 2nd - UP licensing agreement states that if you stop production, they OWN the tooling. How stupid is that!.
CSX licensing is free to individuals see website. Amtrak has always licensed without suing anybody. They require approved samples, and when I worked in the industry, they asked for royalties on high dollar (train sets) sold in places like TOYRUS

[CBQ_Guy]

Yeah, I've got some comments for U.P., unfortunately I won't state them since I don't want to get bounced off the Forum for using "bad words"! This is just the beginning...stock up now before it gets much worse and even more expensive to participate in this hobby. Thank you very much U.P...NOT!!!

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jay_c

Regarding trademarks of fallen flags absorbed by the UP Borg (You WILL be assimilated!), I don't think they really have a leg to stand on with roads they absorbed decades ago. I think the D&RGW/SP decision of some months back lends some credence to that, although I expect UP appealed that decision (whiners).

UP has found a way around that. They have a least one center-flow hopper with both of DRGW's logos on it (DRGW 15564). I have photographed it (04/20/04). I will try to post the photo as soon as possible, if I can. From time to time I send pictures to http://www.railgoat.railfan.net so it might be there eventually. I have also seen a picture of a similar Cotton Belt center-flow.

[Anonymous]

found this interesting piece sitting in Tye, Texas.

[Anonymous]

I think UP is looking to get every penney , no matter how they do it.
[:(!]

[Anonymous]

good for UP then.

[AntonioFP45]

Based on media info so far, looks like UP is fighting an UPHILL BATTLE.

[1] Public relations-wise they've received a lot of negative flack regarding the way they're going about this, even though they're within their rights. The media continues to poke fun at UP.

[2] There are countless UP bashers in the form of angry Amtrak passengers whose trains seem to be deliberately delayed inspite of written agreements between Amtrak & UP. Appears that Uncle Sam is getting involved.

[3] This year UP has moved more carloads than ever, and yet, there are many shippers complaining about delays and poor service (though UP is addressing this).

[4] UP is still struggling with recruiting, hiring, and retaining "high quality" employees. Many people applying for positions have "questionable" backgrounds. Interviewing and extensive background checking is an expensive process.

So Union Pacific has several ongoing battles to deal with in addition to the model railroading "Trademark" clash. UP will survive though as it is an essential part of our economy. Merger or breakup in the future? Possibilities always exist.

Looks like if UP lawyers wins this trademark case, it won't be big financially. Appeals would drag this out.. Had UP taken the low profile approach that CSX is taking, threads like this wouldn't even be posted.

In the long term:
Like any American corporation, leadership changes eventually. I like to think that in a few years the leadership will have undergone some major changes and progress and today's top management team, inspite of record profits, will have become a bad memory.

All we can do is watch this play out.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AC44CTE

good for UP then.

[:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: UP has found a way around that. They have a least one center-flow hopper with both of DRGW's logos on it (DRGW 15564).

But I would argue (were I a lawyer) that keeping a logo on one piece of rolling stock does not necessarily keep the trademark "alive". I would look for a gap in the existence of that mark. The entity to which that trademark originally belonged has been assimilated and no longer exists. One would have to read the contract between the roads to see what the disposition on marks was.

This point will be the subject of much wrangling, if it hasn't been in prior cases already.