ENOUGH !!!

[Anonymous]

This forum is not worth my time.

I have outgrown it.

First, I want a forum that is a good resource for learning new things about this hobby. That resource is not here.

I don't need a "General UP Discussion" forum.

Second, I want a forum that makes me enjoy the hobby, not one that turns me off to the hobby like this one.

And thrid, I don't have either the time nor patience for the childish behavior and childi***hreads allowed to continue ad nauseam on this forum.

When (if) some of you grow up and realize you want to grow in the hobby, you might try some of the more advanced forums, such as the one on the Atlas website or some of the more MRR specific Yahoo ones.

If you do, I'll enjoy talking to you about this hobby there.

But I won't be back here.

Goodbye.

- Dr. George Bailey


(I know - that's three redundant posts to get my final message out, but I'm now OUT of here!)

[Anonymous]

Well we are sad to see you go. I agree about the recent decline of topics related to modelling. More and more posts seem to be about the business side of the hobby. There has been a lot of news dealing with this, but it seems these posts have been dragged on to long. Nothing new has been posted about this news it just seems to be rehashes of old complaints. Can we please get back to the topic at hand for a while. If something new comes up post it in an already made post. This is a great forum with a great group of people and it's a great place to learn new techniques and to bounce ideas off each other but we seem to be held back by rumors. Let's try not lose another person because we are still hung up on something we can not change.
Andrew
P.s. Let's please not turn this into another reason bergie has to come on. Let's be civilized and respect others opinions no name calling. If something makes you mad don't post sit on it and you'll find the mean word s your about to say will seem childish

[Anonymous]

I am currently deployed for the military and at times I am not able to "hear" all the news. If there can be a site to ask for news I would like to know. I would also like to here more about where to find stuff , how to build it, tricks hobbiests have learned etc. Its sad that some are sensitive and get bent out of line when simple questions are asked. Its those that have been modeling for many years that know the tricks of the trade.

[Anonymous]

snakeriver- For the most part we don't get bent out of shape for asking the same question over and over. There's so much information on this hobby, on this website alone. That sometimes it's hard to find what you are looking for. I remember your post about walthers not selling athearn anymore. It would have taken you hours to search through all the other pages of information to find your answer. Type in athearn or walthers into the search function of this forum and you would end up with to many posts to look through.

What gets me was when athearn was sold to horizion many posts were made aboutt the sale that could have been condensed into one. It is happening the same with up bashing. I come onto this forum learn more about the hobby and i find I have to weed through the UP bashing to get to the posts where I can either help someone or get a new idea. Today for example there are three posts on the front page dealing with up, a hwole month after this UP started liscening their logo. This has been going on for atleast a month if not more.This of course is just in my own opinion and is not wworth much but this is what I've seen happening. This is a great way to learn more about the hobby and I'm sure my layout wouldn't be where it is today but I hate to see other people leave because of this.
Andrew

[CP5415]

Everyone has opinions.
It's a part of life.
I have to agree with George though that there has been lot of redundant posts here, especially with UP & Horizon Hobbies.
It's really not worth the time to keep on & on about these two companies.
It sucks the life out of the hobby.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey

This forum is not worth my time.

I have outgrown it.

First, I want a forum that is a good resource for learning new things about this hobby. That resource is not here.

I don't need a "General UP Discussion" forum.

Second, I want a forum that makes me enjoy the hobby, not one that turns me off to the hobby like this one.

And thrid, I don't have either the time nor patience for the childish behavior and childi***hreads allowed to continue ad nauseam on this forum.

When (if) some of you grow up and realize you want to grow in the hobby, you might try some of the more advanced forums, such as the one on the Atlas website or some of the more MRR specific Yahoo ones.

If you do, I'll enjoy talking to you about this hobby there.

But I won't be back here.

Goodbye.

- Dr. George Bailey


(I know - that's three redundant posts to get my final message out, but I'm now OUT of here!)

Each to his own, hope you find what you're looking for.

[the-big-blow]

I said this before, I'm going to say this again some people take these forum things too seriously. God forbid if we laugh or joke about anything out here. Might hog the bandwidth....... And as "childish behavior & threads" I assure you that the Atlas forum is no stranger to that. And who determines what is childiish? While I may not agree with all the posts( quite too UP/Horizon excessive as of late) everyone has a right to his or her own opion. I've seen my fair share of certain people getting away with anything. Some people get all bent out of shape over little trivial matters. At least from my standpoint I enjoy the hobby, forums, fellowship. Yes I think I am a rare breed of modeler that can laugh something off. Some people wanted me to be banned because of my name. Accusing me of being someone else and a "troll" This is all in fun. Were just grown boys with our toys.

[Anonymous]

This Forum won"t get any better, until all these UP bashers shut up , and start talking model Trains, if they are capable of doing that, somehow I have my doubts.


Mac

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hmmm, 58 posts in over 3 years as a member. I don't mean to minimize your contribution, mearly point out that with a forum such as this, you get out of it what you put into it.

If you have questions about the hobby, you ask them here, and you will get answers! If you have experience in the hobby, you offer suggestions to others who do have questions. Between questions, you have fun talking about current events and silly train related stuff. You also meet people and make friends!!![8D]

All of the reviled Union Pacific banter is simply current events, and like it or not it is a part of the hobby. I'll be the first to admit that it is ugly. It bothers people and they want to discuss it. That is one part of what we do here. Yes, it has perhaps gotten excessive, but theratening to quit over content is not the answer to the problem. If you don't like the topics being offered, write your own. Change the subject. Ignore the topics you don't like, but don't complain about them. That only perpetuates them.

[Anonymous]

I have to agree! This MR forum warrants very little attention. Lots of sniping and nipping and not much meat when it comes to modeling. Whether anyone has left 10 posts or 2000 doesn't mean much other than perhaps too much vacant time on your hands. Don M.

[Anonymous]

Hmm ... I think I'll add my 2 cents worth [2c]

I hope George does find an end to childish behaviour on the Atlas Forums, I somehow doubt it ...

Whilst I really object to the flame wars, people just bashing UP for the sake of it, and people going way off topic on some threads I do think that UP legal actions and the Horizon mergers are topics that need discussing they will have implications for the hobby, whether we like or whether we don't.

This is a big forum it draws people from all over the world and news travels at different rates. For example: It wasn't until I got my August MR about a week ago that I heard about UP suing Lionel and Athearn - I thought I'd come here to find out some more. It is not unreasonable to have topics on this issue ongoing over quite some time. If you've of George's frame of mind and you've already read enough on the issue it really isn't difficult to ignore the topics.

I don't think I'd want the moderation to get too tight, but a bit more intervention in the flame wars wouldn't go amiss.

[Anonymous]

I love this forum and I'll keep posting on this forum, because I love to hear what other people have to say! I don't come hear to bash U.P. or Horizon Hobbies I come to learn from other peoples ideas, that is what this forum is all about. Like Big_Boy _4005 said, "If you don't like the threads being offered, write your own. Change the subject. Ignore the topics you don't like, but don't complain about them. That only perpetuates them."

[AntonioFP45]

Hmmm,

Sorry guys, I may ruffle your feathers with my 2 cents, but I do think some of us have been a "tad spoiled or complacent" by this technology. Being in my 40s now, I've seen tremendous changes in this hobby. Please hear me out.

For me as a teen "RESOURCES" like this forum were NON-EXISTENT.
I remember many times working on a model, running into a problem, wishing I could find other modelers to talk to, or was just curious about a locomotive or paint scheme.

Let's see, in the late 70s I had to:
Walk several blocks from my house-rain or shine, hop on a city bus (which ran by every 1/2 hour), ride for 35 minutes to get to my LHS (Chester Holleys back then), and often spend HOURS rustling through magazines to find what I wanted to know if no one had the answer. And of course I felt guilty if I didn't buy "something". [V] Then I had to rush back to the bus stop, rain or shine, as the last bus ran at 6p.m and ride another 35 minutes to get home.

I also made frequent trips to the big Tampa Public Library. All the railroad related books there were on prototype railroading, of course. I had to be content with what I could find. [8)][8)]

Zoom forward to 2004.
In my home. I walk into a room, roll up a cushy chair, fiddle with a keyboard for a few minutes, and WHAMO!------
[1] I get nearly 100% of my model railroad & prototype railroading questions answered! [:D]
[2]Communicate with fellow modelers, not guys trying to sell me a product! [8D]
[3] Instant help with modeling problems. [:)]
[4] Find out the latest info on the hobby's advancements. [:p]
[5] No guilt, no obligation to buy anything! [;)]
[6] No long bus ride, no delays, No getting soaked in Florida's drenching rainstorms! [:p]
[7] In addition, I get to HELP newbies and modelers that also have questions as well as offer constructive criticisms and opinions. [:)][:D][8D][8)][^]

Guys, experiencing these two scenarios has been like having gone from a westernStage Coach to the TGV Bullet Train! So it's worth having to occasionally put up with UP & Athearn/Horizon complaining. This forum for me has been valuable, and enjoyable! Couldn't put a price tag on it! Of course, just like your house, car, and family members, it's going to have occasional problems here and there. I too have been flamed. Shake it off, deal with it, contribute and move forward!

Peace out and enjoy, Amigos!

[dave9999]

Antonio,
As always, well said.

BTW Soundtraxx has updated the Tsunami page on their site. Still no release
date, but a positive sign(?). Dave

[garr]

When I am scanning thru the radio dail and come upon a station playing heavy metal, rap, or any other music not to my liking, I simply scan to the next station looking for something I do like. I do not call the rap or heavy metal stations demanding that they change their format to my liking.

When I scan thru the posts on the MR Forum, or any other forum for that matter, and come upon a topic of no interest to me, I simply skip to the next topic hoping I will find something of interest to me. A ratio of 2 to 3 interesting posts out 10 is normally what I find.

Should I complain and threaten to leave because 70 to 80% is of no interest to me. Or should I realize the world is full of lot more people not sharing my interests and tastes(thank God) and they have just as much right to post and discuss topics as I do. The total number of topics posted daily is not limited, so the topics of no interest to me are not keeping the ones of interest to me from being posted. Actually this diversity is what makes the forum interesting.

Now which of these actions is childish and which is mature?

Jay

P.S. Antonio, I couldn't agree more with what you stated in your post above.

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks for the "heads-up" Dave.

Dr. Bailey, hope things go well for you.

[Anonymous]

George is a major contributor on other forums and like a lot of others here is just passing thru .
He has tons of hands on experience, knowledge & wisdom.

When posts start to get smelly, like dog crab on grass, I step around it and move on to Trainorders
or Trainboard.

[Eriediamond]

George, hate to see you go. I do hope you read this before that happens though. First, let me say that I agree with you on the UP thing and that although it is not a big concern to me what UP does, it may be for others. For the next part, please bear with me as I'm not really good with words. I participate on this forum for several reasons, among them to give answers and advice to those that want it and to get help when I need it. However, I'm here also because of the kind and generous people that are here from all kinds of back ground and experience. I may not agree at all times with some of the posts or subjects posted, but then there are those that feel the same about some of what I post. I kind of compare this forum to a club meeting where some days it may take the whole meeting to take care of business and other days we take care of business in just a few minutes. I also have spent time on the Atlas forum and see no real difference there then here. If you find us dull or nonmodel railroaders, or not up to your standards, then I wish you luck with no hard feelings from me. We all have our seperate feelings on things and hope you find what your looking for in other places. Wishing you well, Ken

[Eriediamond]

George, hate to see you go. I do hope you read this before that happens though. First, let me say that I agree with you on the UP thing and that although it is not a big concern to me what UP does, it may be for others. For the next part, please bear with me as I'm not really good with words. I participate on this forum for several reasons, among them to give answers and advice to those that want it and to get help when I need it. However, I'm here also because of the kind and generous people that are here from all kinds of back ground and experience. I may not agree at all times with some of the posts or subjects posted, but then there are those that feel the same about some of what I post. I kind of compare this forum to a club meeting where some days it may take the whole meeting to take care of business and other days we take care of business in just a few minutes. I also have spent time on the Atlas forum and see no real difference there then here. If you find us dull or nonmodel railroaders, or not up to your standards, then I wish you luck with no hard feelings from me. We all have our seperate feelings on things and hope you find what your looking for in other places. Wishing you well, Ken

[Anonymous]

I don't know George. I am fairly new. I don't understand the childish rantings to let us know he is leaving, though. If you don't like a topic, don't read it. If someone thinks they are TOO GOOD for this FREE PUBLIC FORUM, by all means look elsewhere. I don't read many of the topics as they don't pertain to me or interest me. I do have to admit that I get all of my questions answered, either by direct response to my posts or by searching the archives. I have been on forums for Ford trucks, and they are the same. If you want to start paying for a forum, then I think you have a right to complain about it's content. Until that day, I don't think anyone has a right, other than the moderators, to tell us what we should or should not discuss, as long as it pertains to trains and the hobby.

MR. Tim McLaughlan[:D]

[Noah Hofrichter]

Antonio, I'm very glad for this forum, because I don't have to do what you had to do. I don't think there are many true model railroaders for miles around here, and so this is my only option for help. I've learned more things from here then I ever would have otherwise. I was inspired to begin scratchbuilding, something that i may have never tried other wise but something that I now love to do. I've learned a billion (exaggeration) thing because of this site.

I too just skip over 90 percent of the posts on this site. I've only been in one UP bashing thing, and I didn't even bother to post in it. It's not that hard to find the good stuff, you just have to look for them and weed them out. I only stopped at this forum because I thought it was model related, but I was wrong.

Noah

[krump]

Zoom forward to 2004.
In my home. I walk into a room, roll up a cushy chair, fiddle with a keyboard for a few minutes, and WHAMO!------
[1] I get nearly 100% of my model railroad & prototype railroading questions answered!
[2]Communicate with fellow modelers, not guys trying to sell me a product!
[3] Instant help with modeling problems.
[4] Find out the latest info on the hobby's advancements.
[5] No guilt, no obligation to buy anything!
[6] No long bus ride, no delays, No getting soaked in Florida's drenching rainstorms!
[7] In addition, I get to HELP newbies and modelers that also have questions as well as offer constructive criticisms and opinions.


Exactly why I'm here!!!
Probably saves us all time and money in the long run. Better modelling with less mistakes (ie $) means more fun at the hobby.
(I expecially liked the WHAMO!!! part of this earlier post)
cheers

[areibel]

I don't think you understand WHY he said what he did. He's just tired of having to go through all the spam posts to get to the good stuff. I can come onto this board and see the same subject lines on the first page all the time. NES, Coffe break, yet another poll, etc.. Yet ask a good question and it winds up on page two or three because all the BS posts keep pushing it down, so it might get an answer, it might not.
And the number of posts is directly proportional to the knowledge of the poster? Try "Quality not Quantity", not all of us are here to get more stars. I was interested to read the thread on using CAD, look at how long the many of the posters had been on the list and how many posts they had- many were less than 20 and they've been on here a lot longer than most.
No I'm not trying to quash any teen enthusiasm, it's just the way it is. Most unmoderated boards are like this, and some are much worse (try rec.models.railroad sometime). But I do wish Bergie would do a little more to keep the S?N ratio down a little.

[MudHen_462]

Antonio,
Once again, my friend, you have hit the nail squarely upon the head. I like so many others are not happy with the UP; MTH-Lionel; UP-Lionel; etc. issues that seem to do nothing but "rocking the boat", but in true USA fashion , if we really don't like something we can "vote" with all of our future purchases. I think that all of these litagations will result in bringing more harm than good to the initiating parties, so lets just wait and see.... and in the meantime we can get back to running our respective railroads.

HIGH GREENS and CLEAR TRACKS to you all,

Bob / IronGoat

[philnrunt]

George-
Last week, without knowing the facts, you were carrying on about Antonio and myself trying to get someone expelled from the Forum, when no such thing was said, and carrying on about the 1st Amendment rights of the poster, and this week you are ranting about banning people (one is the same that you defended last week) who make unpopular posts ( that seem to get lots of replys) and screaming that you are going to quit!
Whats up, Doc? Try to keep it in perspective. No reason to get crazed.
Doctor, heal thyself!
Otherwise, buh-bye .

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey

First, I want a forum that is a good resource for learning new things about this hobby. That resource is not here.

This is a sad fact. There is no guarantee of solid on-topic content on any forum that is not heavily moderated. I’m a part of a couple of more heavily moderated forums, and while the tone is far more civil, the traffic tends to be on the light side. My point is that there is a trade off that occurs and it’s always hard to achieve a healthy balance.

Keep looking until you find the one you like.

QUOTE: I don't need a "General UP Discussion" forum.

True, this subject has been beaten into new levels of absurdity. There is no shortage of those who want to trash something, but it’s up to the rest of us to realize that the fastest way to kill these topics is not to post to them. Unfortunately, too many here can’t seem to keep their fingers off the keyboard!

This also has me wondering if perhaps several have multiple ID’s and use them to keep a topic going. Hey, it may sound crazy, but it does happen.

QUOTE: Second, I want a forum that makes me enjoy the hobby, not one that turns me off to the hobby like this one.

Any forum (or club) can do that if you let it. I think you have to keep a perspective on these forums and the hobby.

1. It’s only a hobby, which is defined as something one does for enjoyment in their spare time.

2. This is a forum, which has no guarantee that the information is remotely factual. In fact, I find it’s mostly opinion and conjecture. It's more entertainment than anything else.

QUOTE: And third, I don't have either the time nor patience for the childish behavior and childi***hreads allowed to continue ad nauseam on this forum.

Maybe because there are literally a lot of kids on this forum? Not that it’s a bad thing, because they are in the hobby too and want to learn. But you have to give them a little slack because they are kids and we expect them to act like adults.

Now adults acting like children is another story. Not much anyone can do about that, except maybe just ignore them.

QUOTE: When (if) some of you grow up and realize you want to grow in the hobby, you might try some of the more advanced forums, such as the one on the Atlas website or some of the more MRR specific Yahoo ones.

Your choice. If this place makes you that crazy, then you ought to get out. I personally don’t take it too seriously (like this hobby). I think that there are other far more important things in life to get worked up about.

Overall I would agree that this place can get childish and the topics tend to drone on about the most inane issues. But what do you expect? It’s a forum! You just can't take it that seriously!

I will have to say that one of most silly (and even funny) replies on this thread has to be this:

QUOTE: Hmmm, 58 posts in over 3 years as a member. I don't mean to minimize your contribution, mearly point out that with a forum such as this, you get out of it what you put into it.

A classic reply from someone with a very high post count. [(-D] [(-D] Thanks for a good Monday morning laugh. [^]

Dr. George Bailey, I wish you well in seeking out a forum you will like.

[Anonymous]

Almost 40 years ago, the science fiction author Theodore Sturgeon began a speech to a science fiction convention with the words: "90% of science fiction is crud!" There was a loud gasp from the audience, then Sturgeon continued "But that's normal, because 90% of everything is crud." This last phrase has become known as "Sturgeon's Law."

I've only been here for a few days. I've been wandering around, looking (or lurking, if you prefer) at what the forum has to offer to me as a model railroader. Guess what? I've found that Sturgeon's Law is applicable to this forum. I have little or no interest about 90% of the topics. Since Sturgeon informs us that this is normal, and my experience is that Sturgeon was, if anything, optimistic, then I have no problem with this forum.

I guess, unlike George, I'll be staying here for a while.

[bcammack]

I'm sorry you are too important to be bothered by us. Perhaps you should start a new Yahoo group and moderate it yourself. It might be lonely, but you'll have the sort of forum you desire.

Good luck

[AntonioFP45]

Well worded YNCS! And in case you weren't told; WELCOME ABOARD!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hmmm,

Sorry guys, I may ruffle your feathers with my 2 cents, but I do think some of us have been a "tad spoiled or complacent" by this technology. Being in my 40s now, I've seen tremendous changes in this hobby. Please hear me out.

For me as a teen "RESOURCES" like this forum were NON-EXISTENT.
I remember many times working on a model, running into a problem, wishing I could find other modelers to talk to, or was just curious about a locomotive or paint scheme.

Let's see, in the late 70s I had to:
Walk several blocks from my house-rain or shine, hop on a city bus (which ran by every 1/2 hour), ride for 35 minutes to get to my LHS (Chester Holleys back then), and often spend HOURS rustling through magazines to find what I wanted to know if no one had the answer. And of course I felt guilty if I didn't buy "something". [V] Then I had to rush back to the bus stop, rain or shine, as the last bus ran at 6p.m and ride another 35 minutes to get home.

I also made frequent trips to the big Tampa Public Library. All the railroad related books there were on prototype railroading, of course. I had to be content with what I could find. [8)][8)]

Zoom forward to 2004.
In my home. I walk into a room, roll up a cushy chair, fiddle with a keyboard for a few minutes, and WHAMO!------
[1] I get nearly 100% of my model railroad & prototype railroading questions answered! [:D]
[2]Communicate with fellow modelers, not guys trying to sell me a product! [8D]
[3] Instant help with modeling problems. [:)]
[4] Find out the latest info on the hobby's advancements. [:p]
[5] No guilt, no obligation to buy anything! [;)]
[6] No long bus ride, no delays, No getting soaked in Florida's drenching rainstorms! [:p]
[7] In addition, I get to HELP newbies and modelers that also have questions as well as offer constructive criticisms and opinions. [:)][:D][8D][8)][^]

Guys, experiencing these two scenarios has been like having gone from a westernStage Coach to the TGV Bullet Train! So it's worth having to occasionally put up with UP & Athearn/Horizon complaining. This forum for me has been valuable, and enjoyable! Couldn't put a price tag on it! Of course, just like your house, car, and family members, it's going to have occasional problems here and there. I too have been flamed. Shake it off, deal with it, contribute and move forward!

Peace out and enjoy, Amigos!

Well said, Antonio. Even though I wasn't around in the 70s, I still feel like I'm a little spoiled. Heck, I have a question, I post it, I get an answer. It's almost to easy.