UP bashing

[Anonymous]

Oh boy this will never end!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

It's time for everyone who has a problem with what Union Pacific is doing to protect their company logo GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!...

Gordon

My problem is not about protecting their current logos. They have every right to do that, and should. My problem is that they want to protect the trademarks of every railroad (counts vary - 500 to 1500) the UP borg has ever assimilated. Even railroads that haven't existed in over 100 years!

As I said yesterday in another thread, they can debate the C&NW as that's fairly recent, but trying to control the "Absorbed-in-1870 & Western"? That's another story. They even lost the D&RGW/SP marks in the first round, and that's almost as recent as the C&NW.

I think the MR crowd has a certain amount of tunnel vision. We forget that there are a lot of other products out there besides trains bearing UP logos that are critical of or detrimental to UP's image (the ubiquitous boy from 'Calvin & Hobbes'). Even if they aren't, UP must control them or it will lose control of its own logo. Again, I have no problem with current UP logos, just predecessors.

It's not just about model trains, although that is where the lawsuits seem to be aimed at the moment. It's the coffee mugs, t-shirts, window stickers, etc. too.

Jay
A voice of reason (hopefully)

[AntonioFP45]

AggroJones [#ditto][#ditto]

Joey,

No hard feelings guy but:

When you were UP9899 I checked your link. I suggested that you post the info on the work you did on your locomotives, layout, weathering, as well as your Mars Light project. You have some very nice photos; include them! Why don't you contribute so newbies can see examples of creative work? Good quality input is what keeps this forum popular. [8D]

(BNSF drools? You may be joking around but, honestly, this makes you look very childish. [V] One may conclude that you enjoy trying to "ruffle feathers" which again is of course, your choice. But this is why some posters have taken "jabs" at you, sometimes. In turn, you respond back harshly. Who benefits? Nobody!!) [B)]

Consider that some contributors like Noah, for example, are in their early teens but post very intelligent feedback. These are just suggestions as you are still free to express yourself, but just think about it. [;)]

Take care, guy [:)][:D][C):-)]

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AC44CTE

UP rules BNSF drools!

Joey, if you're going to boast UP why don't you at least say somthing intelligent and insightful, as opposed to "Go UP!", "UP dominance", "All other roads suck", etc.
[V] [V] [V]

[AntonioFP45]

AC44CTE (UP9899)

Joey,

A while back you mentioned the possibility of working for UP. How was your interview? Were you hired?

[Anonymous]

UP rules BNSF drools!

[Roadtrp]

I really don't understand all the trauma. I mean if you don't like 7-UP and you think they are overcharging for their product, go buy Sprite. God knows it all tastes the same anyway.

Oh... you're talking about UNION PACIFIC, not 7-UP? Well, same thing. Aren't there many other loco's out there that are pretty much exactly the same as the UP's? Just a different paint job? Don't they pull just as many cars? Have the same low speed operation?

So if you don't like what they're charging for the 7-UP locos, by the Sprite locos. God knows it all tastes the same anyway.

[:P][:P]

[Anonymous]

Unless your a UP butt kisser.

[Junctionfan]

I wish some folks if railroads must be bashed it was done with respectful critising and not foolishly. For example "UP rules and BNSF drools" is not my idea of intelligent critising. Also other railroads make real bone head moves. Honestly I would rather talk about what railroads should do and less of negative opinions when it comes down to the critising. My favourite subjects are modelling oddball cars or getting info on various infrastructure of the railroad. I am also interested in hypothetical opinions involving modeling and real life operation. That is my prime goal here.

[CBQ_Guy]

They asked for. Keep bashing away even if they don't get the message. They deserve it because they've started a precedent that will just keep getting worse!

The price of the hobby has been getting too high in my opinion to the point where the UP types now have noticed what we're paying for this overpriced stuff and think, "Hey, these guys have bottomless pockets. They'll pay ANY price to get what they want. Here's a chance for us to cash in on it, too!"

So now it starts, and little by little the other railroads will see it that way too and will also start lining up to charge us for "protecting" their logos, as well. And in the end the cost of this hobby we'll just keep going up and up. So maybe those us who just keep paying more and more for our toys are the ones who should be bashed.

You may not agree with this, but personally I don't care if you do or not because it's what "I" believe and it's the opinion I've come to, as is my right!

[Anonymous]

IF PEOPLE ARE SICK OF THE THREAD, WHY OPEN IT?

[Anonymous]

I like the UP from the time it was "the" UP. The time there was besides a MoPac, a Katy, a Western Pacific, a Rio Grande, and of course Southern Pacific darling. Nearly all the models of "that" UP I wanted, I have them. And if some manufacturer issues some "sex-bomb" model of that era, I shall get it (probably), and I do agree that the $5 extra bakchich will be peanuts compared to the price of that item.

After all, the Coca-Cola models that Athearn produces are not fee-free, neither are the John Deere models. And nobody protests for red and green but do for yellow, why?

This being said, I have seen an utmostly stupid topic down the list, trying to imply an "enronization" of UP. This is deeply idiot. What I envision is rather the following. UP now serves the West in a half-monopoly situation. With NS and/or CSX, it goes to the Atlantic coast. It will never expand North, may be will go South.

Meaning that UP is now in the way of being "trapped" within the boundaries of North America. So if further expansion there will be, that can be only on an other continent. And precisely, across the pond eastward, the European Commission in Brussels has asked that European states step back from maintaining railroads. They must privatize anyhow within I don't know for sure how many years, never mind.

What I believe can very well happen, is that UP may be tempted to buy one or more railroads in Europe. And probably the best nugget would be the French Railroads (SNCF). Why just SNCF? Because its network is at the crossroads of Europe. Geographically, all traffic or so to/from Spain/Portugal to Italy, UK, Germany, etc..., goes through France. It's SNCF that is co-owner of the Chunnel, through which goes all rail traffic, and some piggyback, between the UK and the continent.

Since the SNCF is counter-managed, the expectation in revenue from an made-efficient railroad is enormous.

But if SNCF's plant is -very- attractive, its social situation is a disaster. For that reason, the cost of purchasing the SNCF would be one of the lowest in Europe. No doubt for me that a Company like UP could propose a deal like "- OK, I purchase it. But I fire everybody and hire back tomorrow whomever suits me. And you French government, do me a favor, you make me benefit of the Disney amendment of the French social laws. That authorized Disneyland Paris to be a non-union company. Which is absolutely against the French social laws.

With a non-union railroad to manage, I certainly believe that UP has -LOTS- of money to make. The day I hear they do something like that, I purchase UP stocks.

But that's only my opinion.

[darth9x9]

The situation with UP is what it is. Nothing will come of anything on the forums. Let's sit back and watch who is next. First UP, second CSX, who is next?

[grandpopswalt]

Those of us who feel strongly that the UP's action is just plain wrong, not illegal, but wrong, owe it to ourselves and our fellow modelers to continue to protest this action. Not only to jawbone on these forums but more importantly to protest to the public at large.

Someone (any volunteers?) should compose a form letter that exposes the UP's pettiness. The letter could then be downloaded and signed by any of us who has a strong feeling on this subject and forwarded to as many newspapers, nationwide, as possible. The court of public opinion is sometimes more powerful than the judicial system (which would almost certainly side with the UP).

Again, this is not about legality but about ethics. Also about the precident that it sets if the UP goes ahead with their plans.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy
What's an extra $5 if you're already paying close to $200.00?

Hmmm.... if NS did this tommarow I'd be paying around $300 a year for stuff (not all MR) that I would wind up paying for, about three or four are engines, thats 20 plus book, photos, ect. , I'd wind up paying $30 or $40 more, might not sound like a lot to most of you but I can hardly afford this hobby, also, $5 adds up over time, you might wind up paying hundreds, maybe thousands extra over time.

Well said Mark. This is exactly why this is such an important issue to people in this hobby. None of us need higher prices to satisfy corporate greed. I know that there are those that take the railroad's side, because it is their logo after all. But, remember that this whole thing only came up after the laws were changed. Prior to that UP hadn't even considered doing this.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy
What's an extra $5 if you're already paying close to $200.00?

Hmmm.... if NS did this tommarow I'd be paying around $300 a year for stuff (not all MR) that I would wind up paying for, about three or four are engines, thats 20 plus book, photos, ect. , I'd wind up paying $30 or $40 more, might not sound like a lot to most of you but I can hardly afford this hobby, also, $5 adds up over time, you might wind up paying hundreds, maybe thousands extra over time.

[Anonymous]

Too bad the smiley list doesn't have a face that doesn't cry like a baby.
If you kmow what I mean?
BNSF railfan.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marcmr

Yeah, I agree with George. Isn't there a business forum on Yahoo! or something this can be discussed? I don't model the UP, but NS uses UP and CSX power on its line sometimes, so I might buy a UP locomotive or two in the future. But, you know what, I buy the expensive Atlas and Kato locomotives, and an extra 5 bucks really doesnt mean a lot to me when I already pay 75-110 bucks. But, I use forums to learn things and see other peoples things, not discuss proper business practices. See ya!

Matt

[#ditto] What's an extra $5 if you're already paying close to $200.00? And yes, the bashing has to stop![:(!]

[Anonymous]

I stopped back here briefly to vote after getting an email that there is a poll about the ridiculous UP threads. Seems like most people get it but there are a few that still don't or can't understand the objections.

This has NOTHING to do with the issue some people have with UP. I realize that for some this has proven to be the defining issue of their lives. Others simply have strong feelings about it. No question they deserve to make their voice heard & this forum is the proper place to speak out.

However, the objections to "UP bashing" here are generally aimed at those who feel the need to begin a new topic after new topic rather than following the accepted and normal forum behavior in which one continues the conversation in an existing thread rather than everyone starting their own thread. Little to nothing new is offered in each of these newly posted threads, except for those who have posted polls comparing the management of UP with Saddam Hussein, or speculating they will be hauled off in handcuffs because of some alleged criminal activities. (I'd be careful making charges like that which could result in lawyers showing up at your door..)

This need of some to start a new thread everytime UP triggers a synapse in their mind is what I termed childish and I stand by that. It is as silly as starting a daily ground-foam topic. I appreciate that there are children on the boards, but there is no need to act childish.

I personally could care less about UP or if there is a Never-ending UP Thread. I came here for the modelling info, and yes, we all know we can ignore the daily UP threads. But flooding the forums with nearly identical threads serves no purpose except to annoy, which I suppose is the intent. Either that or some simply don't understand the concept of "threads."

Wayne

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

Nightcrawler:

CP has an on going steam program. Remember 2816?
While she's not as big as 844 or 3985, she is a corporate steam locomotive & extremely active, especially this year.
CP has also donated a large quantity of locomotives & rollingstock to museums as well.

Gordon

Gordon

Yes Gordon, it's hard to forget 2816 after last weekend. At least CP isn't as childish as UP about the licensing.[swg]



By the way, UP has every LEGAL right to do what they are doing. The question is, is it RIGHT, ethicly and morally. I say no.[V]

The logo is only worth what people are willing to pay, and from what we have seen here, there are a lot of people who are NOT willing to pay more. The most sickening part of UP's claim is on the fallen flags. They should have no rights there. The courts will decide!!!! In the meantime they should focus on delivering freight, and quit crashing trains, and leave their fans in peace. Those suggestions would all be good for business.[B)][:0][}:)][;)]

[Anonymous]

Lets put all the UP gripers and supporters in 1 single thread. That way they would have a place to gripe or toot UP's horn, without bothering the rest of the country. (Yes UP fans, there are parts of America that UP is not directly "building") I'd be interested to see how long it takes to overtake the "coffeeshop" thread!!![(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]

[CP5415]

Nightcrawler:

CP has an on going steam program. Remember 2816?
While she's not as big as 844 or 3985, she is a corporate steam locomotive & extremely active, especially this year.
CP has also donated a large quantity of locomotives & rollingstock to museums as well.

Gordon

Gordon

[Anonymous]

The topic of Union Pacific has now gotten stale to me. To the point I have decided to restrain my urge to fire up the airbrush until the factory paint falls off my Union Pacific models. When I do they will be repainted GN, BN, or BNSF depending on what railroad owned what. I have taken a close look at my modeling options lately and might go with the Milwuakee Road as my interchange road.

James.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Hi everyone ! Not all real railroads are like the UP ! I am a member of the GREAT NORTHEN RAILWAY HISTORICAL SOCIETY and the Burlington Northern RR donated a historically significant SD 45 engine to us several years ago and DM&IR RR helped us to maintain and store it untill we found a permanent home. THIS SHOWS EXCELLENT PUBLIC RELATIONS THAT THE UP COULD LEARN FROM IF THEY WERE INTERESTED

what about the dozens and dozens of locomotives, freight cars, and cabooses that the Union Pacific has donated to museums??????? what about the ongoing UP steam program??

i dont see any other railroads doing that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NightCrawler

personally, i am sick of reading thread after thread bashing the Union pacific Railroad from people who have no facts, but like to pretend they do. many many members have been chased off this forum due to the constand childish whining. logo licensing hapens all the time, but since someone is stil acting like a 5 year old because the UP "took" their favorite railroad, they just cant let it go.

[#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto]

[sigh]

[tomwatkins]

Yes, I think enough is enough. Right now there are 6 posts on the first page of the "Model Railroader" forum about the UP and it's corporate behavior. The hard truth is that it's their logo and they can do with it as they will. Flaming, for or against, isn't likely to change anyone's opinion. Nor is it likely to help anyone become a better model railroader . It's a hobby, and it's supposed to something we do for fun.
Tom Watkins

[Anonymous]

If a thread doesn't interest me, I just don't click on it, simple as that.

[CP5415]

It's time for everyone who has a problem with what Union Pacific is doing to protect their company logo GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!
Why continue to drag on about something that should have been over months ago!
If you don't like what UP went & did, SWITCH TO A DIFFERENT RAILROAD TO MODEL!!!
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO "HOW DOES THIS WORK?" & "WHAT DOES ONE DO TO FIX THIS?"

Gordon

[simon1966]

It is not exactly difficult to NOT click on a topic that is of no interest. Unlike the Yahoo groups type e-mail forums when the messages come to you regardless of interest.