Washing mortor on to a brick wall

[selector]

Am I not doing what those who criticize do....say it 'like it is?"  Am I not to be as "honest" as they?  Why should there be rules for some, but not others here?  Why can you and Frank tell it like you see it, but when I do the same you cry foul?  When is a mere opinion not one?  The word hypocrisy comes to mind.  Should I be no better than you and Frank, and you and Frank be no better than hypocrites?  Which ought it to be?

Many regular users here have expressed their distaste for Frank's approach to "honesty".  Those of his persuasion delight in belittling the efforts of others, hoping or expecting that they are somehow aggrandizing themselves.  They just don't seem to understand that they have exactly the opposite effect.  And, since the culture we are attempting to establish here is one of encouragement and criticism in balance, and not the one without the other, that is how we will moderate...not as Frank would have us do...or you. 

[locked]

Let those who insist on behaving otherwise find other venues, as Frank has apparently done.  And if I know Joe Fugate, he won't tolerate belligerence and bullying any more than I.  Frank, I fear, will have to learn the same rules over there....and obey them.

-Crandell

[Geared Steam]

TA462

Crandell, calling a person a child or coming up with excuses as to why a person acts like a child is just as bad as questioning a person's modeling skills if you ask me.  And you call yourself a moderator???  You should have let this thread die instead of posting what you did, but hey I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job....... 

 

Indeed.....

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 I'm with Crandell on that one most likely the kid that had the big mouth in school but not the brass to back it up with resulting in him getting stuffed in to a locker on more then one occasion. Some tend to get way too opinionated or feel the need to lash out for who knows what reason towards fellow members when they give an opinion that doesn't coincide with their own so they feel the person is either being arrogant or ignorant. We all need to remember two things which most of us do. thankfully.

These are merely opinions based on our own personal experiences or that of people we know there is no right or wrong when it comes to opinions and all will agree that one of the great things this hobby has to offer is many ways of achieving the end result

Lastly what most of our mothers but apparently not all told us as kids if we have nothing nice to say say nothing at all. We can always disagree like gentlemen and still remain civil to each other.  

I know for a fact that a world class modeler friend of mine uses the exact same method as Jeffery does so  I guess he's in good company. I will say though that I am both impressed and proud of how many members defended Jeff's right to voice his method and to voice their disgust with the way Drill-line handled himself. Which by the way was not the first time he had done such to the same person. Who know maybe Jeffery reminded him of the guy in school who kept stuffing him inside the locker? Lets jsut put it all behind us.

[selector]

steinjr

What is it that makes "some children" be meaner and more quarrelsome than other children?

 

Ummm....uhhh..............a personality defect?  Bad parenting?  Being picked on as a kid?   Feelings of personal inadequacy?  Enjoying grinding down others less fortunate/skilled than you?

Okay....I give up.

-Crandell

[galaxy]

I have watched this thread grow with some offended interest.

I am surprised at the 'tudes some have here displayed. {Though it could be argued I also herewith display a 'tude}. The childishness on the part of some shows their true colors.Perhaps some must always remember the ancient apropriate phrase "'I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'", rather than the 'tude that "my way is right and the ONLY way". The OP said he knew the technique, so he didn't need a "refresher" on that...and said he wanted to use a particular paint already..just wanted to knwo how to modify it to his taste.

A thank you should, however, be said to all who offered their color choice and method.

NOW, to the Original Poster who asked:

I would like to know what to mix with some concrete paint to wash the mixture onto a brick wall, wipe the mixture off and leave mortor lines in the indentations between the brick.

I know the technique, I just don't know the proper mix.  I have never used it, but I have read about it in a couple of articles, I just have no clue what issue or how long ago.

Rod

Rod, I just used the model paint called "aged concrete" for the mortar lines look I wanted. It gave me the color I basically wanted without modification. However, To darken it a bit, though, I {probably as I'm not for sure on the remembering}  used a 1or2-5 mixture of "grimy black" to "aged concrete" and  {one or two drops "grimey black" to 5 drops "aged concrete"} to get a darker stain to represent more soot and dirtier mortar where I wanted it.  I used the opposite {1 aged to 5 grimy}  to get a darker soot where mostly "grime black" would be more appropriate over teh door of the old brick engine house.

Hope that helps you.

{OOPs unless you meant you have "concrete paint" as in "paint designed to paint {real} cement floors and walls" and NOT model or other paint called "concrete" because it is supposed to look like concrete when dry on models}

[HaroldA]

I have used a variety of techniques including washes, paint out of the jar, chalks and depending on the look I want they all work well.  What I wouldn't recommend is talcum powder.  I read about that somewhere and gave it a shot - it went everywhere and the model ended up smelling like a combination of a baby's bottom and dirty feet.  LOL!!  Bring on the dish soap......

[Anonymous]

 Back to the issue - I have used several different techniques, from powdered pastels rubbed into the cracks and crevices to simple water colors washed onto the surface and wiped off with a cloth. The latter technique works satisfactorily, as sufficient paint stays in the cracks. There is one advantage to that method - you can just wash it off if you´re not happy with the results. You should wash & rinse the plastic parts thoroughly prior to applying the wash, though.

 

[steinjr]

TA462

Some people's standards are lower then others.  That's the only way I can explain why Driline got upset with you and why I disagree with your method after you posted it.  What's good enough for some isn't near good enough for others.

 Sigh. What is it that makes "some children" be meaner and more quarrelsome than other children? Some children (including some whose chronological age is way past the normal age when people become adults) apparently just can't live without acting like defiant children going "you can't make me play nice!"

 Jeffrey was just telling someone else what he (Jeffrey) did. Frank (Driline) could just have pointed out that he had tried that technique, and it didn't work for him. Nobody would have had much trouble with that,

 Instead Frank chose to go on to attack Jeffrey personally by talking about "noobies on this forum who like to jump in whenever they can even if they give incorrect advice". And it seems like you cannot live without going "some people's standards are lower" either.

 Maybe it is about time for "some people" to grow up and start acting more like mature adults rather than as quarrelsome children?

 Stein

 

[cedarwoodron]

There was a very good article during 2009-2010 in MR about mortar color/ brick color, etc. (fall/winter issues) that dealt with coloration and technique- it might be helpful, as would be Jeff Wilson's structure modeling how-to book (Kalmbach).

 One personal observation: Our family owns two 1900-built urban buildings in the upper midwest. The basement shows the original structural brickwork, now 110 years old, with the mortar the SAME color as the foundation bricks. The exterior mortar was considerably darker, due to decades of coal burning in the central business district by buildings using old steam heat plants which were coal- and later- oil-fired. We chemically washed the exterior brick, under specific guidelines, as the building is a National Historic Registered structure, and this revealed a slightly off-white mortar color, as the dirty overlay was removed.

Good luck- and remember, it's your railroad, so be your own boss!!!!!

Happy rails to you!!!! (with apologies to Roy Rogers)

Cedarwoodron

[jeffrey-wimberly]

TA462

You on the other hand are happy with your results and if that's good enough for you then great.  That's all that really matters, right????

That's it. Not all of us work to the same standard. I used to build super detailed models when I was much younger but I finally decided what was the point. I always ended up breaking the details off in one way or another so I quit doing it. Now I can't do it anymore for the simple reason that I lack the manual dexterity for it. So I no longer try but instead have settled for a lower standard. I'm happy with it and for me that's what counts. Others want to build super detailed models and that's their prerogative, and I'm in no position to pass judgement on them for it, nor would I. They can do me the same courtesy. I do the best I can with what little I have and with my microscopic income that's saying a lot.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

doctorwayne

There are many here just starting out, and seeking information to help them grow within this hobby, but I think that there are just as many here who already have the information, but have not made use of it.  You may or may not approve of Jeff's methods or his results, but he continues to learn by doing and continues to share his experience.  Isn't that one of the main purposes of this forum?

That's the premise I've already operated under. I help people any way I can and I also learn a lot. Anybody who thinks there's nothing more they can learn needs to find a new hobby because something is wrong. There's always more to learn. I didn't think I would ever go the DCC route until I tried it and now there's no way I'm going back to DC unless the computers all blow up in our faces. I didn't think I'd settle for assembly line already built structures bot owing to medical problems I did and I can now see they're not all that different from the kits I used to put together.

[doctorwayne]

TA462

Funny story and way off topic.  I just did the brakes on a buddy's daughter's Mazda Miata, we took it out for a drive just to be sure it was stopping the way it should.  A guy pulls up to us at a light driving a IROC that had a ton of motor work done to it, it sounded very quick.  I said to the driver, "dude nice car!!!"  He yelled back, "Your's is nice too, IF YOUR A GIRL", LOLOL.  I almost died I was laughing so hard, lol.  I told my buddy to get me home, quick.

 

I had a dog who could drive fast in a straight line, but he was useless on a twisting road.  Believe me, if you enjoy driving, you were in the better car by far. 

Jeff is right: he offered his method in response to the OP's request, with no claims of it being either the only way or the best way. 

jeffrey-wimberly

 I use 'FolkArt' Cabin Gray acrylic paint myself. I just smear some onto the wall with my finger making sure it gets into the mortar lines then wipe it off with a paper towel. Instant mortar lines.

I find it refreshing that Jeff continues to offer his suggestions despite the unneeded negative remarks.  I also find it odd that no one seems to notice that he's one of the few modellers here who's not paralysed by fear of failure.  There are many here just starting out, and seeking information to help them grow within this hobby, but I think that there are just as many here who already have the information, but have not made use of it.  You may or may not approve of Jeff's methods or his results, but he continues to learn by doing and continues to share his experience.  Isn't that one of the main purposes of this forum?

 

Wayne 

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

TA462

So that's where all the "big dogs" went when they left this site.  Driline was just being honest with Jeffrey, I've tried that technique and got very poor results.  To each his own but I find it hard to believe you can get a good result by Jeffrey's way of doing it.   Post counts don't mean anything, Jeffrey's post count is very high because he use to answer to every post there was.  Let's be honest here, how many of his posts have any helpful hints that people can use.  There are a few others with very high post counts that really don't mean anything, it doesn't make them a better modeler, it just means they have more free time then most.  There are some very good modelers on this site that have very few posts.  That's just my 2 cent's........

I've never said that my ways of doing things are any better than those used by others, I only say that they work for me and are what I use. If somebody else wants to try it and it works for them then they're welcome to it. If it doesn't work then they can go on until they find something that does and if they don't want to use it or don't want to try it then I don't mind that either. But one thing I don't do is go around openly criticizing the work of others nor do I pick fights with them about it and nor do I say that somebody MUST try this or do this. What works for me may not work for someone else for whatever reason.

[galsluvtrains2]

You can also paint with oil based paints and then when it dries add water based thinner (in the desired mortar color). Wipe away the access top layer so it seeps in the cracks. This will give the desired apperance of mortor and it will not take off your paint and you don't have to spend a lot of time painting between cracks. For more details, look in the Model Railroader Magazine. May 2010 issue article: "Enhancing Brick Structures." Page 66. (I know, I know... I sound like a MRR advertising commercial).

[cwclark]

Dave-the-Train

Motley

I have a feeling Driline won't be back, I found this over at MRH. here

I was really saddened by Driline's "contributions" to this thread.  It seemed more like the mud slinging that some forums allow on this side of the pond... So I clicked on his id to see what soort of contributions (if any) [Joined on Tue, Jul 04 2006 - Posts 2,270] he had made.  He appeared to have been around a few years but I had not noticed him before.

[On the other hand I have noticed Jeffrey's frequent help - Joined on Tue, Jun 22 2004 - Posts 13,923 and Nick's - Joined on Mon, Jun 20 2005 Posts 3,406 .  Thanks guys!  ]

Anyhow; I found this... "The user you have selected to view or contact has been deactivated by the administrator".  I guess that solves that one. 

   That's just too bad.  (Was that a Sportster in his pic? ..aka...a Harley Davidson for girls?)

   Well if you promise to not beat me up, I like to spray paint my brick buildings white and then take paint thinner and a cloth to remove the paint from the raised brick. Once the model is assembled, i'll use pastel chalks and fill in the weathering....works for me....chuck

[doctorwayne]

You might also try airbrushing for the moss effect - thin the colour severely (about 90% thinner) and build it up gradually - as they say, stop just before you've applied too much. 

A couple of things to remember when painting brick structures.  In older times, most brick was made locally, with whatever clay was readily available.  If you're modelling older buildings (pre-railroad) there's a good chance that most will be the same colour of brick.  That said, you'd be surprised by how much the mortar colour can affect the final appearance.  If you have a test wall, paint it your favourite brick colour, then try different colours for the mortar.  This can be a good way to introduce some subtle variety without making the contrasts too severe. 

When cheap rail transportation became available, a well-to-do company might import a different type of brick to face the street side of their latest construction, while using the local variety for the more utilitarian parts of the structure.  This is especially noticeable when an older building amongst others of the same era is torn down, revealing walls originally not intended to be seen.

Wayne

[m horton]

Ivy on brick is easy, just use fine ground foam and elmers or tacky glue. Make a line or several branches on side of stucture wall with glue, sprinkle on foam, let it dry, blow off excess.

Is that green mess or moss stains your asking?  I believe dry brushing green colors would simulate stains/moss. mh.

[Dave-the-Train]

nbrodar

Colored pencils work too:

Nick

Now this (and the next quote) is the sort of thing I like to see... because, apart from extremely new modern brickwork (which often looks chemically sanitised to me), this is the sort of over-all subtle variation I see around the real track.

farrellaa

Forgot to add photos of some of the brick mortar I did this way.

I especially like the variation of light and dark tones.

All I need now is guidance on how to do the green mess where water drips and ivy...

I'd like to thank Dr Wayne as well for (yet again) providing a great variety of examples.

[Dave-the-Train]

Motley

I have a feeling Driline won't be back, I found this over at MRH. here

I was really saddened by Driline's "contributions" to this thread.  It seemed more like the mud slinging that some forums allow on this side of the pond... So I clicked on his id to see what soort of contributions (if any) [Joined on Tue, Jul 04 2006 - Posts 2,270] he had made.  He appeared to have been around a few years but I had not noticed him before.

[On the other hand I have noticed Jeffrey's frequent help - Joined on Tue, Jun 22 2004 - Posts 13,923 and Nick's - Joined on Mon, Jun 20 2005 Posts 3,406 .  Thanks guys!  ]

Anyhow; I found this... "The user you have selected to view or contact has been deactivated by the administrator".  I guess that solves that one. 

[AntonioFP45]

Dr. Wayne,

I certainly Iearned something new here.  This structure's brick coloring so much resembles many of the 1930-40s era brick business buildings that still survive in Florida and the southeastern areas of Georgia.  It never occured to me to try a color like "Reefer Orange" for an effect such as this (and I've been weathering for years).  I'm going to give it a try!  Thanks  

Jeffrey, I've always enjoyed your posts (and still like those clouds you did for your layout!)

High Greens

[Motley]

I have a feeling Driline won't be back, I found this over at MRH. here

[Motley]

I guess Drilline's way is the only way, it must be the best. Wow... come on now....

I was offended for Jeffrey, by your comments Drilline, this has no place on these forums.

Jeffrey your modeling skills, experience, and always willing to help newbies are very much appreciated. Don't let this bother you.

[chutton01]

nbrodar

Yard office...

Nick

Aha, I thought the building style looked a little incongruous with the tower addition. Your prototype has the plain, simple look of many service buildings starting from, well, the late 1930s I think - no lintels about the windows, no stonework/roof parapets etc. No real adornments, plain railroad service style (and actually the style of municipal and government service buildings from the 1940s till...well today even). It was kinda bugging me, as the 'minimalist' style slanted glass tower and the 'ornate' brick building don't fit well.
However, I do like how you ran the rolled roofing up onto the interior sides of the walls, very prototypically common.

[selector]

Just a personal observation here...a bit off topic, but addressing Driline's first post to this thread.  It seems he has derieded this forum because he feels it is populated by dilettantes who like to encourage each other and who talk about more frivolous things associated with the hobby...no depth.  Then, when a thread like this starts, and different experiences are shared, with the depth that obviously accomplished modelers have imparted by their posts, his contribution was sneering disdain and more derision.

I would like those who helped to educate Driline by supporting Jeff to know that this forum is stronger and better by your presence.  Personally, I am happy that you are here and willing to contribute instead of taking away.

-Crandell

[nbrodar]

wjstix

FWIW regarding mortar, I find it works better to do the opposite...that is, I spray the flat walls with a light gray to simulate the mortar, then use an art marker to color the raised bricks. "English Red" seems to be very good brick color. Then you can use a small brush to color some other bricks different shades of red, gray or brown if you want some contrast. It also allows you to leave the gray on trim areas like above and below the windows.  

 

I use this technique as well...

Art Markers:

Colored pencils work too:

Nick

[chutton01]

doctorwayne

As noted, there are lots of ways to accomplish this task, and anyone wishing to do so might try all of the techniques suggested in order to avoid having all of your brick structures look the same.  As shown, there are good results to be had from all of these methods

Perhaps the OP can buy a set of modular brick wall panels like DPM or Walthers offers - perhaps 6 or so. Then, try out the different mortar methods given, plus whatever other ones you may read on the web or in magazines/reference books. Compare and contrast, and then for methods that yield results you like, strip off the paint from the other wall panels and redo them with your favored methods, tweaking a the methods a bit to see if you get results you like better - make notes of what seems to work for you, plus you get practice in finishing buildings. Preferably get wall panels w/ windows/doors/quoins so you can see how the mortar methods works with such details - for example, does the mortar build up around these extrusions?
When done, strip the paint off all the wall panels and use them to build a background building flat (or whatever) using your new-found skills.

[nbrodar]

chutton01

nbrodar

I just have to ask, what is this structure going to be - some sort of yard tower? Small airport control tower? To me the mortar lines look fine, but the green window roof addition looks incongruous with that style of brick building (if you have Prototype photos post 'em - it would be interesting to see)

 

Yard office...

Nick

[DJO]

Driline

jeffrey-wimberly

Looks good to me.

I've seen pictures of your layout numerous times. You should be the poster boy for "Looks good to me". Thanks, but....no thanks.

driline this is so bad in taste. callin a him a poster boy?  theres much better ways to tell a man you dont agree with his way. why be so nasty? were sopposed to be havin fun.  

[doctorwayne]

As noted, there are lots of ways to accomplish this task, and anyone wishing to do so might try all of the techniques suggested in order to avoid having all of your brick structures look the same.  As shown, there are good results to be had from all of these methods.

Wayne