Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

A Question For The Resident Psychologist.

7299 views
44 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Westcentral Pennsylvania (Johnstown)
  • 1,496 posts
Posted by tgindy on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 5:03 PM

germanium

The real answer is that none of you know whether you're coming or going. In the UK, we drive on the left, which is of course the right side.

...the ramifications of driving on the left side of the road, in 1990 in Tasmania, proved you must believe & obey signs saying, "Kangaroo Crossing next 5K," and then you see waves of sheep crossing the road looking like a large moving darker-puddle in the distance...

...instead of driving on the right side of the road, where you must believe & obey signs in the states saying, "Deer Crossing next 3M," where there is no wallaby road kill at all.

Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Ogden UT
  • 1,055 posts
Posted by PA&ERR on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 3:41 PM

 

"Of course some folks do go both ways!"

-Scarecrow, Wizard of Oz.

-George

"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 3:01 PM

Beach Bill


There's a PhD dissertation paper in here somewhere.....

Bill

 

After some of the dissertations I have read over the years and seen defended. Sigh One on this subject could be shear brilliance indeed.Whistling

 

                                                                   Brent

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: North Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 995 posts
Posted by Beach Bill on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 2:31 PM

The brain of the model train builder (as well as that of the railfan) is pre-disposed to like certain things which have been associated with pleasure in the past.  We like the smell of creosote ties and the smell mix of hot oil, coal smoke, and steam around a steam locomotive.   One of the neatest things we've ever seen is a Shay locomotive in operation.  Now, since Shay locomotives have their cylinders and other moving parts on the right side of the boiler, that is most visible when the locomotive is travelling left-to-right in front of us.  Hence, counter-clockwise movement.   Our minds, clearly more observant, sensitive, and developed than those of mere mortals, just want to re-experience the pleasure of watching a Shay operating and this then transfers over to other forms of motive power as well.

There's a PhD dissertation paper in here somewhere.....

Bill

With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost. William Lloyd Garrison
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Joizey
  • 1,983 posts
Posted by SteamFreak on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 12:37 PM

MAbruce

jwhitten
Or maybe just a little Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia...

 

(Fear of big words)

Tongue  Laugh

 

Yeah, I came across that one too.  Sort of makes it hard for one to come to terms with their fear if they fear the very name of their phobia... Laugh

I thought it was a fear of articulate pachyderms. 

  • Member since
    November 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,720 posts
Posted by MAbruce on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 12:18 PM

jwhitten
Or maybe just a little Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia...

 

(Fear of big words)

Tongue  Laugh

 

Yeah, I came across that one too.  Sort of makes it hard for one to come to terms with their fear if they fear the very name of their phobia... Laugh

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 10:57 AM

BATMAN

You may have something here. I love the land of OZ.  If I couldn't live where I do, Australia  would be saddled with me.

I can't spend enough time way down there. It's too bad the plane ride is so brutally long from Vancouver or I'd be there every year for my vacation.

I'm sure glad there is an ocean between us or I might be tempted to take the train. I wonder how long that would take. Or how many issues of MRR magazine would I need to take with me for the trip.Smile

 

 

That's how I feel about England and France. Especially England. I love the place and I don't go over there anywhere near often enough. If I could figure out how I'd move there permanently. But my wife isn't interested in the idea (not that she's ever been to have a true opinion) and we'd be moving away from family-- including elder parents who are gonna need some shepherding, economically after this big recession/depression we've been in. I know my Mom would love to live in France-- not so sure about my Dad unless he can take all his cars... Even though I was born and raised in the good 'ole US of A, it just does something really nice to me when I'm over there-- like I'm coming home. Maybe I was a Scott in a previous life, eh?

Smile

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 10:40 AM

jwhitten

No worries Mate, the answer to your dilema is simple-- you were an Aussie in a former life, and now you're pining for the land down' under. Maybe if you sprinkled some great white sharks and man-eating crocodiles around it would all come back to you? Or maybe licked a toad or two and went walkabout for a while... whatever works.

 

Cheers!

 

Dr. John

 

 

You may have something here. I love the land of OZ.  If I couldn't live where I do, Australia  would be saddled with me.

I can't spend enough time way down there. It's too bad the plane ride is so brutally long from Vancouver or I'd be there every year for my vacation.

I'm sure glad there is an ocean between us or I might be tempted to take the train. I wonder how long that would take. Or how many issues of MRR magazine would I need to take with me for the trip.Smile

 

                                                                            Brent

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Glendora, CA
  • 1,423 posts
Posted by zgardner18 on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 1:03 AM

Here's the psychological reasoning:

You are probably right handed.  If so then if you were to draw and engine or a car you probably would draw the nose of the machine on the left side of the paper (facing left).  Therefore if the picture was 3D then the machine would be facing in the direction to move counter clockwise.

I am left handed in which I naturally draw my pictures with the nose on the right side.  So I naturally would run my trains clockwise.

Picture this: Grab your engine with your right hand and place it on the tracks infont of you.  If you are in the center of the loop then the train will go counter clockwise, yes?  Answer to your question!

Sounds logical?  Heck, I'm just making this up as I go.  I really don't have a clue but it sure sounds good to me.

--Zak Gardner

My Layout Blog:  http://mrl369dude.blogspot.com

http://zgardner18.rrpicturearchives.net

VIEW SLIDE SHOW: CLICK ON PHOTO BELOW

 

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • 595 posts
Posted by mreagant on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 9:10 PM

BATMAN

mreagant

Think about it.  If you're modeling a  historical American prototype road, the odds are that it was built east-to-west (yes, yes, I know there are exceptions) because that is the way this country was settled.  On any standard map east to west is right to left which, on an around-the-wall layout, would lead to construction  from east to west and if operations follow construction the empire would operate initially so that the result would lead to ............counter-clockwise train operation.

Once up and going the obvious operation would be in both directions lest excess of motive power sit idle at one terminus, resulting in revenue loss.  Zero sum game!

See, didn't need a psychologist, just a logician and historian.  Oh, and bean counter.

 

 

 

 "THAT"S IT" 

 I am constantly thinking about the huge push to get the CPR built across Canada. East to West. The story is a great one. It is the main reason I am into model railroading.

Thank you Dr. Mreagant. Just send your bill to the Government of British Columbia health care system. One visit and I'm cured!  To the train room!Smile

 

                                                                                  Brent

Glad I could be of assistance.  My book on this subject, "How the Location of the North Pole Changed the History of the World...and Model Railroading" is due out this Summer.  Signed copies will be available.

Mike 

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 8:24 PM

 

MAbruce

Hum,.. could be a touch of Sinistrophobia (Fear of things to the left or left-handed).

Be thankful you don't have Siderodromophobia (Fear of trains, railroads, or train travel).  No, that's a real phobia!

 

Or maybe just a little Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia...

 

 

 

(Fear of big words)

Tongue  Laugh

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 2:46 PM

mreagant

Think about it.  If you're modeling a  historical American prototype road, the odds are that it was built east-to-west (yes, yes, I know there are exceptions) because that is the way this country was settled.  On any standard map east to west is right to left which, on an around-the-wall layout, would lead to construction  from east to west and if operations follow construction the empire would operate initially so that the result would lead to ............counter-clockwise train operation.

Once up and going the obvious operation would be in both directions lest excess of motive power sit idle at one terminus, resulting in revenue loss.  Zero sum game!

See, didn't need a psychologist, just a logician and historian.  Oh, and bean counter.

 

 

 

 "THAT"S IT" 

 I am constantly thinking about the huge push to get the CPR built across Canada. East to West. The story is a great one. It is the main reason I am into model railroading.

Thank you Dr. Mreagant. Just send your bill to the Government of British Columbia health care system. One visit and I'm cured!  To the train room!Smile

 

                                                                                  Brent

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

  • Member since
    November 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,720 posts
Posted by MAbruce on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 2:09 PM

BATMAN

 Today I was running trains on the layout and to be a little different I thought I would run them in the opposite direction than I usually do. I ran them clockwise. For some reason, as always, it kinda bugged me to run them in the opposite direction than I usually do. I got to thinking back to all the layouts I have had in my life and I remembered that with every one of them I mostly ran the trains anticlockwise. Even with the larger layout I have now, where I sit in the middle of the room and they run all around me, essentially they still run anticlockwise. I am the kind of person that hates routine and loves change but for some reason this ones got me.Confused My question is why does my brain care what direction my trains travel in and do you always run your trains in the same direction? Are you a clockwise or anticlockwise kinda guy???

 

 

Hum,.. could be a touch of Sinistrophobia (Fear of things to the left or left-handed).

Be thankful you don't have Siderodromophobia (Fear of trains, railroads, or train travel).  No, that's a real phobia!

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Indy
  • 997 posts
Posted by mononguy63 on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:45 PM

Obviously, trains on a closed loop run counter-clockwise because the closest real-world parallel since the early 20th century was the Indianapolis 500, where the cars turrned (and still do) to the left, in a counter-clockwise direction. Though the cars here at Indy are travelling south on the front straight when they cross the start/finish line, which always seemed counter-intuitive to me.

As for my layout, I have both a simple loop and folded dogbone, so when I run two trains for railfanning, they're simultaneously coming and going even when I run them in opposite directions! Dunce

Suddenly I have a headache...

Jim

"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley

I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious.  -Stephen Wright

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Hampshire, England
  • 290 posts
Posted by germanium on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:17 PM

The real answer is that none of you know whether you're coming or going. In the UK, we drive on the left, which is of course the right side. Big Smile

Dennis

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • 1,168 posts
Posted by dgwinup on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 11:36 AM

jwhitten

That's a good thought except for I always sat *inside* the loop! Big Smile

John

That could explain some of the problems a few of us have!  LOL

Or maybe some people are just left "outside" the loop.  ROFL

I crack me up............

Darrell, quiet...for now
  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Saskatchewan
  • 2,201 posts
Posted by last mountain & eastern hogger on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 10:10 AM

SteamFreak

 In the northern hemisphere it's clockwise. Down Under trains prefer running counter-clockwise. Wink

 

Whistling  

How novel,  a train layout in a toilet.............. LOL.

The LM&E runs both directions, We are an equal direction service provider.  No discrimination here.

Johnboy out.

from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North.. 

We have met the enemy,  and he is us............ (Pogo)

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 8:30 AM

wjstix

I suspect is has something to do with the fact that when running an oval of track on a train that way, the engineer's side of the cab is closest to you when the train is closest to you. I wonder if in say Hornby ads in the UK you'd find trains running clockwise??

 

 

That's a good thought except for I always sat *inside* the loop! Big Smile

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 8:03 AM

I would bet if you went thru pictures in ads and such of boys operating a Lionel train set, the vast majority of the time they're operating counter-clockwise. I suspect is has something to do with the fact that when running an oval of track on a train that way, the engineer's side of the cab is closest to you when the train is closest to you. I wonder if in say Hornby ads in the UK you'd find trains running clockwise??

I know the Lionel layout I had as a teen was normally run counter-clockwise, although I did have to sometimes change direction because of one spur track that was a facing point, and the layout didn't have a run-around track. The layout was a twice-around, but with a cutoff so you could just run around the outside loop.

But my last layouts over the last 20 years or so have all been some variation of a point-to-loop so trains go both directions.

Stix
Moderator
  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: London ON
  • 10,392 posts
Posted by blownout cylinder on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 7:57 AM

wjstix

 

You plead the 5th, right?Wink

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...

http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 7:54 AM

 

Stix
  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Shalimar. Florida
  • 2,622 posts
Posted by Packer on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 7:27 AM

Frued has nothing on this....

Vincent

Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....

2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • 6,099 posts
Posted by Phoebe Vet on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 7:00 AM

I'm bi-directional.  I hope the neighbors don't find out.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 6:30 AM

BATMAN
My question is why does my brain care what direction my trains travel in and do you always run your trains in the same direction? Are you a clockwise or anticlockwise kinda guy???

 

 

No worries Mate, the answer to your dilema is simple-- you were an Aussie in a former life, and now you're pining for the land down' under. Maybe if you sprinkled some great white sharks and man-eating crocodiles around it would all come back to you? Or maybe licked a toad or two and went walkabout for a while... whatever works.

 

Cheers!

 

Dr. John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 2:32 AM

My trains run either up or down, depending on what the timetable and that particular schedule is supposed to be doing.  While my basic track layout is a folded dogbone, one side is hidden in the netherworld (the 99+% of Japan I don't model) and trains run both ways on visible track.

Of course, nothing simply orbits unless I'm just running a couple of trains to entertain mundane visitors.  Normal operation calls for a train to leave staging, do its thing on the visible portion of the railroad and proceed to the other end - another (different) staging area.  Trains with locomotives get turned end for end in the Netherworld, so catenary motors will reappear at the tunnel portal that has (virtual) overhead wire, while steam locos stay where the tunnels are shorter and the wire hasn't been hung yet.  Diesels can run through - some do, some don't.  (My main station is an engine change point.)

What's with, "Up and down?"  Up is toward Tokyo, no matter how circuitous the route might be.  Down is away from Tokyo.  On my road, steam locos proceeding down have to climb a major grade - go figure!

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - to the prototype's published schedules)

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • 2,751 posts
Posted by Allegheny2-6-6-6 on Monday, March 1, 2010 11:47 PM

 I'm happy as long as my trains are running in a horizontal position and not a vertical plunge towards the deck. I think maybe you need to install a reversing loop.

Just my 2 cents worth, I spent the rest on trains. If you choked a Smurf what color would he turn?
  • Member since
    November 2008
  • 1,205 posts
Posted by grizlump9 on Monday, March 1, 2010 10:12 PM

 vell, you zee, dis ist a problem dat hass existed zince railroads were first invented.  it hass caused much consternazion amongst de orichinal railroad designers und enchineerz.   avter mutch conziderazion dey dezided dat dey shouldt build der railroads point to point und not in a zirkle.  dey make more money dat vay too.

und dat ist dat.

sigmund grizlump

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • 595 posts
Posted by mreagant on Monday, March 1, 2010 9:37 PM

Think about it.  If you're modeling a  historical American prototype road, the odds are that it was built east-to-west (yes, yes, I know there are exceptions) because that is the way this country was settled.  On any standard map east to west is right to left which, on an around-the-wall layout, would lead to construction  from east to west and if operations follow construction the empire would operate initially so that the result would lead to ............counter-clockwise train operation.

Once up and going the obvious operation would be in both directions lest excess of motive power sit idle at one terminus, resulting in revenue loss.  Zero sum game!

See, didn't need a psychologist, just a logician and historian.  Oh, and bean counter.

 

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 779 posts
Posted by Dallas Model Works on Monday, March 1, 2010 8:39 PM

My previous layout was a folded dogbone with a couple of cross-overs so trains ultimately ran both ways.

The current layout is incomplete so it's effectively point-to-point right now, but once it's all around the room, they'll still go in both directions -- gotta get the MTYs home somehow!

 

Craig

DMW

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!