maxman We should be asking him what sideframes he currently has, and offering options based on that information. I can't see putting $9 worth of trucks/wheelsets on a $5 car (or buying an F350 when a Ranger will suffice).
We should be asking him what sideframes he currently has, and offering options based on that information. I can't see putting $9 worth of trucks/wheelsets on a $5 car (or buying an F350 when a Ranger will suffice).
I also aked him what brand of trucks/rolling stock he was looking to upgrade, also with no response from him on that point. I think we have told him all we can or all he wants to know.
Maybe it was only a $5.00 car because it had $0.50 trucks and $0.05 couplers. With some better trucks and couplers now it might be a $15.00 car?
If this hobby is just about how cheap you can do something than fine, but for be, pulling long trains with no operational problems is part of my layout goal. So short cuts are not an option for me in those areas.
I put only genuine Kadee couplers on every piece of equipment, I put sprung metal trucks on most equipment, I have metal wheels on everything. I have over 400 freight cars so equiped. Some are just Athearn blue box kits, some Intermountain/Proto/Branchline high detail kits, some Kadee and similar RTR, some craftsman kits - but mechanically they are all treated equally or they do not run on my rails.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALObviously anyone should use whatever works for their needs and wants, I have explained why I use what I do, if you don't need it or think its too expensive, that's fine. My trains work great.
I'm happy that what you use works for you. And I'm happy with my own choices. But personal opinions aside, what we should be doing is going back to the subject of the original post. The OP started out asking where he could buy Athearn trucks in bulk. Suddenly it appears that he has concluded that Kadee sideframes with IM wheels is the way to go based on limited input.
maxman I know one guy who got rid of them because they didn't track well for him.
This would require more info to be of any bearing on this discussion. What kind of trucks? what kind of wheel sets, what kind of problems?
maxmanMy personal opinion is that the springs don't do much of anything anyway, as the cars are not heavy enough to compress them. And the "equalization" of the typical solid plastic truck seems to be adequate for most purposes. But whatever floats your boat.
True, the car weight does not generally compress them, but equalization is a different story. The car weight, even of a 2.5 oz Athearn hopper, is enough to keep all the wheels on the rails by virtue of the flex in a sprung/equalized truck.
If we accept your premise that car weights are not enough to compress truck springs, they they are surely not enough to flex a plastic truck sideframe - so there is NO equalization with a one piece rigid sideframe plastic truck.
And some will argue equalization is not needed.That is a better argument than saying plastic sideframes provide adequate equalzation.
Back in the 1950's and 60's, sprung trucks where considered a mark of quality in this hobby. Central Valley, Kadee, Lindburg, Walthers, and many others all made sprung trucks and a large precentage of models came with them, including Athearn Blue Box kits (the boxes where actually yellow back then).
Personally, I consider it a step down in quality now with rigid plastic sideframes as the standard, except of course for Kadee, who still has sprung trucks.
And, I prefer the added weight of metal trucks. My years of experiance has shown me they work better. I have very smooth track and pull very long trains with virtually no derailments - I credit my trackwork and free rolling sprung, equalized trucks.
Kadee has recently introduced a new truck that is not sprung, BUT it uses a two piece sideframe/bolster assembly to provide equalization even without being sprung. I suspect Sam at Kadee agrees with me, equalized is better.
Many trucks back in the day that where not sprung, where equalized by having a three piece design, two sideframes allowed to pivot where they attached to the bolster. Just look at any brass loco tender trucks. Again - equalized.
Obviously anyone should use whatever works for their needs and wants, I have explained why I use what I do, if you don't need it or think its too expensive, that's fine. My trains work great.
But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a pickup, a few guns, and some trains that I have been playing with for 40 years.
I have converted nearly all my cars (Accurail, Athearn, Walhers, etc.) to IM wheels. No problems. But, I use the truck reamer on all.
Am I the only one for whom this works?
Accurail sells their truck in bulk. http://www.accurail.com/accurail/parts.htm If I remember right the Intermountain wheels will be a little long for the Accurail trucks, but thats nothing a truck tuning tool won't fix. http://www.micromark.com/HO-TRUCK-TUNER,8241.html Every model railroader should own one.
John.
jpeters711As it looks, the mostly preferred combo is IM wheelsets/KD Trucks.
I'm not quite certain how you came to this conclusion based on the responses in this thread. I think only one individual, or maybe two, suggested this combination. Around my area, the use of sprung trucks, regardless of manufacturer, is rare. I know one guy who got rid of them because they didn't track well for him. My personal opinion is that the springs don't do much of anything anyway, as the cars are not heavy enough to compress them. And the "equalization" of the typical solid plastic truck seems to be adequate for most purposes. But whatever floats your boat.
By the way, if you are modeling the 1970's there were a lot of roller bearing trucks in use then. Any of the older cars on your railroad would probably still have the solid bearing truck. But any modern equipment would probably have a roller bearing style.
One thing that didn't come out in all the posts on this thread was the question concerning what manufacture trucks you are wanting to replace, and why you think you need to. Sometimes all you need to make a truck roll smoothly is to clean out the axle holes with one of those truck tuner tools. And there may be other wheel replacement options that might save you a few bucks rather than a wholesale replacement of evey truck on every car.
Just my opinion.
Wow! I missed the previous discussion on wheelset/trucks because I thought you could get plastic Athearn trucks in bulk. As it looks, the mostly preferred combo is IM wheelsets/KD Trucks. I just want to say thank you for this and the previous discussion. I had no idea about axle lengths before..now I feel like I have been violated. Sometimes knowing less is better. I am really happy though that I ordered the IM wheelsets..seems they are ..one of the top favorites..
By the way, I have been modeling for some years too..I love scenery most..but am an avid operator and host..and belong to a round-robin op group. When we have a problem, we remove the culprit from the tracks..until it stops giving us a problem. There is one MMR of several in the group that has algorithms for everything..I respect that for sure..but for most of us..we use our pickiest piece of rolling stock to test newly-laid track. Most derailments for us have been operater error!
So, I am gonna get some Kadee Bettendorf since I model 70's, with a bit of free lance.
Thanks again, I had no idea this question could spark so much discussion.
To the OP:
As previuosly stated, the IM wheelsets are too short for the athearn trucks, except for the 70-ton roller bering ones that were included with the Blue-Box 62' tank car. Bachmann's are also too short, but I haven't tried them with the 70-ton trucks. I've used P2K, Atlas and branchlines in the athearn trucks with good results.
As for bulk trucks, I don't know of any that can be bought in bulk. You might be able to buy some that aren't expensive. A truck tuner may help the trucks you are considering replacing.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
cacole I have replaced all Kadee trucks on my rolling stock because I have discovered other brands which I consider to be much better and free rolling, such as Atlas and Kato. We had problems on our HO scale club layout running DCC when some Kadee trucks somehow were derailed on a siding. They shorted the trsck, but not seriously enough to cause the Power Shield breakers to trip. Heat building caused the bottom of a reefer to melt before the problem was discovered. Kadee has not changed the design of their trucks for over 20 years, and other brands have bypassed their technology, IMHO.
I have replaced all Kadee trucks on my rolling stock because I have discovered other brands which I consider to be much better and free rolling, such as Atlas and Kato.
We had problems on our HO scale club layout running DCC when some Kadee trucks somehow were derailed on a siding. They shorted the trsck, but not seriously enough to cause the Power Shield breakers to trip. Heat building caused the bottom of a reefer to melt before the problem was discovered.
Kadee has not changed the design of their trucks for over 20 years, and other brands have bypassed their technology, IMHO.
Agreed, with the factory wheelsets they don't roll well at all. They need the Intermountain wheel sets to roll well.
maxmanI'm sorry, but I guess I have a problem spending between $6 and $9 for a pair of quality items, and then have to spend additional dollars to replace the wheelsets in them. Just seems wrong, somehow. There must be a better way.
I understand, it is expensive. Personally I want free rolling and sprung, and the added weight down low of metal, so I do it. Lots of other plastic trucks are nearly as free rolling, but this tracks and rolls the best in my opinion.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWell, if you really want very free rolling trucks and don't mind spending a few dollars, get Kadee sprung metal trucks and replace the wheel sets with those Intermountain ones you are already using.
I'm sorry, but I guess I have a problem spending between $6 and $9 for a pair of quality items, and then have to spend additional dollars to replace the wheelsets in them. Just seems wrong, somehow. There must be a better way.
Tks. I have Peco turnouts. I will buy a few Kadee trucks to test the IM/Kadee combination.
Seems the concesus is not to use Athearn trucks with IM wheels. OK. NP. I have not purchased the trucks yet. Other threads mention Kadee as being compatible with the IM wheels. Comments?
jpeters711 Anyone know where I can get Athearn trucks in bulk? I have upgraded most of my rolling stock by replacing the plastic wheels with Intermountain 33" metal wheels with good results. I have quite a few cars that need both the wheels and trucks replaced. I have been told the Intermountain wheels go well with the Athearn trucks but cannot find a source to buy in bulk. If not Athearn, than which trucks would be a good match for the Intermountain wheelsets I have already purchased. Thanks.
Anyone know where I can get Athearn trucks in bulk? I have upgraded most of my rolling stock by replacing the plastic wheels with Intermountain 33" metal wheels with good results. I have quite a few cars that need both the wheels and trucks replaced. I have been told the Intermountain wheels go well with the Athearn trucks but cannot find a source to buy in bulk. If not Athearn, than which trucks would be a good match for the Intermountain wheelsets I have already purchased. Thanks.
Well, if you really want very free rolling trucks and don't mind spending a few dollars, get Kadee sprung metal trucks and replace the wheel sets with those Intermountain ones you are already using.
You did not say what brand or brands of rolling stock these are for, but the Kadee self centering trucks are easily adapted to most brands.
There will be those who may post on here and tell you the Intermountain wheel sets will not work in the Kadee trucks because of all this axle length stuff. I refer you and them to the following thread from 6-7 months ago. Warning - it is a lot of reading.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/156052.aspx?PageIndex=4
They may say it does not work, but 400 freight cars says it does.
I have tested many different truck/wheelset combos, dispite the critics, it works very well, better than anything else I have found.
Yes, Athearn trucks do take various sized axles depending on the type of truck. And there are variations from different production runs over the years.
Personally, I would recommend against the REBOXX semi scale wheels if you use commercial turnouts, especially Atlas. This is another area of disagreement, but I prefer NMRA standards and do like the way semi scale wheels drop into even PERFECT NMRA standard frogs.
The Kadee/Intermountain combo has resulted in a 40% increase in the pulling power of most of my locos do to less rolling resistance. I have somewere near 400 freight cars with this setup.
Or, if you wait until I convert another batch of cars, I sell the Athearn and similar trucks I remove on ebay.
wholemanThank you for the clarification. I didn't know that that Athearn had different axles length for different trucks. The reason that I have used .970" is because that is the only that the particular hobby booth at a train show had in stock and he said they should work. The cars that have them have close to 50 hours of service and have performed flawlessly.
Thank you for the clarification. I didn't know that that Athearn had different axles length for different trucks. The reason that I have used .970" is because that is the only that the particular hobby booth at a train show had in stock and he said they should work. The cars that have them have close to 50 hours of service and have performed flawlessly.
The trucks will roll and operate fairly well, but the side-to-side slop can lead to coupling problems and derailments, as well as looking not-so-good. Better to get the straight dope from the manufacturer and skip any potential problems. That's the big issue with a one-size-fits-all manufacturing philosophy. I have a ton of Kadee and P2K wheelsets I need to get rid of, now that I've replaced all of the trucks and wheels in my roster, but I'm not at all sorry about the project. I don't have derailments, and have great-looking trucks and wheels.
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
wholeman Thank you for the clarification. I didn't know that that Athearn had different axles length for different trucks. The reason that I have used .970" is because that is the only that the particular hobby booth at a train show had in stock and he said they should work. The cars that have them have close to 50 hours of service and have performed flawlessly.
In case you're interested, here is a link to the Reboxx application chart for 33 inch wheels:
http://www.reboxx.com/Documents/Wheelsets/33%20Application%20Chart.pdf
Here is the link to their other application charts: http://www.reboxx.com/wheelsets.htm
Regards
I don't know if they have any bulk packages of trucks, but Athearn has an extensive listing of parts on their web site.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Parts/Default.aspx
Will
wholemanCan't help you with locating bulk trucks. Intermountain wheels will not work with Athearn trucks. The axle length is too long. You will have to use Reboxx wheels with Athearn trucks. I have done this. The Reboxx wheels are semi-scale. If your trackwork isn't real smooth, then semi-scale wheels may not work. You will need an axle length of .970" with 33" inch wheels. I have done this with good results. Hope this helps.
Can't help you with locating bulk trucks. Intermountain wheels will not work with Athearn trucks. The axle length is too long. You will have to use Reboxx wheels with Athearn trucks. I have done this. The Reboxx wheels are semi-scale. If your trackwork isn't real smooth, then semi-scale wheels may not work. You will need an axle length of .970" with 33" inch wheels. I have done this with good results.
Hope this helps.
As one who has swapped more than 100 cars' worth of trucks and wheelsets, all with Reboxx wheels, I have to take issue with this. To replace the Athearn wheels in their Bettendorf friction-bearing trucks, the axle length should be 1.030" (per the Reboxx spec sheet.) The Intermountain wheelsets have an axle length of 1.006", and are thus too short for the Athearn trucks. The only Athearn trucks which use that short of an axle length are the Roller-Bearing 70-ton RTR trucks. And for those trucks, Reboxx recommends the 0.990" axles.
If your track is at all decent, you will have no problems with the semi-scale wheels. The only area that may give you a problem will be #8 or larger turnouts. These can be fixed easily with a small bit of styrene in the frog of the turnout.
If your track is rough, and you don't want to rip it up and re-lay it, you might want to consider switching to sprung trucks. They ride over rough trackwork without noticing, hardly.