advice from kids my age

[Anonymous]

I am open and thankful for any advice or comments on the topic, but I would really like to hear some ideas form kids somewhat near my age, 12 yrs. old. here is the senario: say you have a 10x14 ft. bedroom, any you would like to have a small model railroad ( in HO scale ). you have to share space with twin bed, a small desk, a night stand, and a book shelf. you have to have accesse to your closet door, and a window that takes up most of one of the 10ft walls. you would like to have a layout with good ( and realistic ) operation, with a continuse run ( you could live without the continuse loop if you absoulutley must ), but you would like to have a decent amount of space and not to crowded for other activities ( such as dancing to you favorite song on the radio [:D][:D][:D], I listen to oldies ( 50's 60's and 70's ) ). here is the question: what kind of layout would you build ? Thanks !

[Anonymous]

I'll have a trackplan in a few days. Sounds like your an MKT and RI fan so I'll try to find a place where they meet to base the plan on. Should I add anything else?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Actually Alex, it sounds like you really need the help and advice of the older crowd, as they have more experience designing layouts. Beside, we were your age once too.

Will your parents let you build a layout in your room, or are you just wishing and dreaming?

It sounds like you have room to have a cool layout, if you plan it correctly. Where is the door to the room, and the closet door?

The place to start a plan is with a scale drawing of the space, and all of the permenant features of the room. Then we can figure out what will fit. You may have room for curves to make a loop, or you may not.

Can you post a diagram of the space?

[AggroJones]

I don't want to intrude, but I am a grown man in the same predicament. Except my room is 9' x 11', not including the 2' x 7' closet space.

I'd go with around the wall with a duckunder at the door.

I've been working on a possible layout plan that would work in my available room space. The general idea is to send the layout around the walls, pass the window, and into the closet. All other things in the room are arranged under the layout, leaving most of the room center open. This maximizes total mainline distance and free space in the room. The benchwork would be pretty high, so the duck under at the entrance is easier.

I don't have a closet in the traditional sense, so I couldn't tell you how to handle that. Whatever is in your closet, can it be removed? Or at least lowered so the layout can run above it?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Aggro, do you have to sleep in that room too, or is it a spare room? I'm not a big fan of duck unders, especially when it comes to the main entry to the space. Removable bridges are better for that kind of design.

Because Alex has a closet that he will probably have to keep, a full "around the room" may not be an option for him. I'm thinking of something like a loop in one corner of the room and a wye coming off it with a long tail for yard and industries on a shelf.

[AggroJones]

Yes. I eat, sleep, and everything else in that room. Bed, TV, everrything. Plus a whole bunch of storage containers.

[Anonymous]

You may want to consider a layout that will move up and down on a pully system.

Because it sounds like you use your room a lot it seems that you might consider something that will allow you too be a little more flexible.

When you don't wanna work on your train you can just send the layout up to the celing.

Keep in mind that a layout like this will limit the size of your layout.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Yeah Aggro, as much as you want to maximize your layout, you still need room to move around in there. I suppose if you choose the correct height, and keep the track near the door to a minimum, you could get away with it, but it will be a squeeze. I still say don't have a duck under to enter the room, you'll get tired of that very quickly.

Stack the containers, lower the bed and keep the shelf over it narrow, so you don't whack your head. You could build out from the walls about 2' all the way around, maybe even 3' in a couple of spots. Just remember, you're an adult.

As for Alex, his parents may have some say as to what is OK and what isn't in his room.

[Anonymous]

dougal, the only other specification is that the terrian be western oklahoma. aggro, due to lack of carpentry skills and doors that swing into the room, I cannot build and around the walls layouts, but great suggestion ! here is a diagram of the room ( not to scale ! ) :

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- 2ft - WINDOW - 2FT -
- -
- 10ft -
- -
- -
- -
- -
- 11.5 ft -
- -
- 14ft -
- -
- -
- -
- -
- -
- -

-
closet door 32" in. -

-
------------------------------------------- door 38" in ---------------------------------

[FThunder11]

DON'T DO IT. My room is the same and I endend up taking it all apart and moving it to my basement. I advise you to not do it. If that is your only space though, then do what you can to keep siblings and pets out. My brother always ruined it, but now that mine is in the basement he doesn't touch it.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm, sounds like you have a problem. Well, will a 4x8 work? Or maybe a folded dogbone layout? You could do a shelf layout, it'd just be 4 feet wide to acomodate the continuous (yes, that's how you spell it) run. 4x.......say, 8 or 7 (or 6 or 5). Well, that's all the advice I can give.

[Anonymous]

I cannot have a 4x8, but I have not given up on the dog bone idea.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Don't get wrapped up in the prototype Alex and Mark. Defining the space comes before what goes into it. You can make the railroad look like whatever you want once you know what the benchwork will look like.

I'm afraid the room drawing didn't quite turn out. Is it a perfect rectangle 10 x 14? If so, just start on one wall, and go around the whole room describing and giving the dimensions. Call the walls north, south, east and west.

[Anonymous]

Sometime in the late 80's MR Published a nice 2 by 10 trackplan. I'll try to find it and give you the date.

[Anonymous]

Maybe a shelf layout or a switching layout would be adequate. I know exactly what you are talking about. I have the same problem with my parents. If only they were crazy about them too..........
Andrew

[Big_Boy_4005]

There are a few shelf layouts in "101 Track Plans". This a classic title from Kalmbach, which has been around longer than most of you guys have been alive, even Aggro. I think they updated the cover a few years ago, and of course the price keeps going up, but it still sells after all of these years. TRACK PLANS ARE TIMELESS!!!!! They are also adaptable![swg]

Guess what, I went down to the basement and found my 3 copies of 101 Track Plans. Cover prices of $2.00, $2.50 and $3.00. I knew it was old, but it was in it's third printing the year I was born, 1961!!!! It was first published in 1956!!!

Plans 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 51, 55, 68* and 72* would all fit, though 68 and 72 would need to be modified. Some of these are small enough that they could be combined or added to to make something really cool.

[Anonymous]

Big Boy 4005, are any of those plan adaptable for an oklahoma prairie theme ?

[Big_Boy_4005]

I don't see why not. Most of them are yard and industrial though. Wide open spaces usually only have a single track running through them. That's nice if your goal is to model the scenery, but in a limited space, I would think that you would prefer to squeeze in some track for the purpose of moving some cars around. Yards and industries have the activity and make great small layouts. Ask Jetrock if you can find him, he likes switching along city streets.

Plan 72 however may be just the ticket. It is 30" wide down most of it's length with a small bulge in the middle, where it widens to 48". That bulge has a small loop with tight curves, but it does allow you to turn a train on and let it go. This plan would need a little modification, because it is a little too long, 18' total. But one end could easily be clipped off without losing much of the fun.

Also, if Mark comes up with a magazine date for a plan, I have every MR back to 1950. I can look at them and make you a copy.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Alex, does your room look something like this?



I figured it out by seeing how you drew it in your other post. I used the quote button and was able to see the spacing that was lost by the forum when you posted it.

How far is the entry door from the lower right corner?
Will the furniture fit the way I have it shown?
Do you like it so far?

[Anonymous]

Big Boy, might work ( I'll go upstairs here in a minute and lay it out with some E-Z track ). the space from the corner to the door is a little over 2 ft. Thanks !!

[Big_Boy_4005]

You're welcome Alex. If we get the furniture settled, we can start thinking about the actual track plan.[swg]

The simple dogbone might work well in that space, we'll see. Another idea is to take a small rectangular layout from the book, and put it on the window end of the long wall, then add a shelf to it, running down toward the door. Continuous running and switching, it doesn't get much better than that in a small space.[swg]

[Anonymous]

I like the dog bone plan, however I am concerned that it will limit me due to 18 radi curves, no room for sufficint staging, and little room for industries. I will draw it out on paper one more time along with a shelf layout I have designed then I will compare them. does anyone lnow how to post a drawing ? could anyone tell me ? Thanks !

[Big_Boy_4005]

You need to get the image up to the web first. Do you have any online storage available? If not, you can attach it to an email, and I'll just look at it or if you want I can put it up here for you.

I'll be around for a little while yet, but we are going out to dinner in a couple of hours.

[Big_Boy_4005]

How about something like this Alex?

[Anonymous]

From that plan you could also connect the spur off of the left curve with the right curve, and have a passing siding.

BTW Oklahoma Train Nut, I too am getting close to designing and building a starter layout, and it is going to include a interchange with the Rock Island.
So I will be one of the few m-rr'ers with the Rock as a road on my layout.

[Anonymous]

what kind of layout are you building, cjm89 ? 4005, would that layout support these locos : trainmaster, SD7, light mikado. thse are the largest things I plan to run on my layout. would they negociate the 18 radi curves and the #4 turnouts ? thanks !

[Anonymous]

yeah i think all of those locos will work

[Big_Boy_4005]

Almost all HO locos should negotiate an 18' radius curve, It is basicly the minimum standard used by the manufacturers. For your purposes18" is about the most you should consider using. You will start to have reach issues in the corners if you go to 22" because the table top will have to move out to 4'. That will also start to be a problem behind the door. Even the 42" may be too much behind the door, but the corner could be clipped. The door still may not open all of the way, and if we can't fit it, we may have to make some changes.

Cmj, I didn't make that connection on purpose, but yes, that could be done. I wanted that front section to be a bit of a switching puzzle, and making that connection would make life too easy.[swg]

I just looked back at the dimension of the wall behind the door. 2 feet there is a killer, which way does the door swing, toward the short side or toward the closet. If the hinges are on the left as you enter, meaning that the door swings toward the closet, we are in much better shape.

[Anonymous]

If you build a switching layout as suggested by others, you could run it around at least two of the walls and run it as a point to point, with a possible short, hidden staging area so that the train has somewhere to go : " beyond the layout ". You'll most likely get bored if you just run your trains around in circles.

The British have been using what they call a "fiddle yard" for years, which are removable 'trays' with tracks on them that are used to collect and disperse rolling stock and even complete (short) trains. You would need a means to temporarily support these 'trays' when using them, but that should be easy to design. (if you decide to explore this idea, email me and I'll draw up some simple plans for attaching the "fiddle yards") I believe MR has had at least one article re: "fiddle yards" , but it was years ago. Another benefit of this approach is that you have a convenient way to store some of your rolling stock, when it's not on the layout. Just shove them under your bed stored in the 'trays' ,and make the 'trays' stackable.

A couple of other ideas come to mind. You could use a wye in a corner of the room at the end of the shelf layout, and especially in the corner between the long shelves that go down adjacent walls in the room.. Use the wye to turn an engine and a caboose, leaving the rest of the train on an adjacent sidings to be reconnected after the engine is turned and the caboose moved to the opposite end of the consist. Ditto w/ a short passenger train. The leg of the wye that sticks out into the room and in the way of other activities (like your dancing !) is sorta like what a three-legged man would look like, and how one of his legs would always be in the way. Suggest that you make that 'third leg' removable or hinged downward when not running trains.

Also, John Allen's "Time Saver" switching puzzle lends itself for incorporation in a shelf type layout, and it ads both realistic and challenging operational possibilities. If you're not familiar with the "Time Saver", let us know and we'll point you in the right direction to read up on it. It could be worked into a typical agricultural / industrial setting w/ a grain mill, farm and feed supplier, packing plant, even livestock pen(s),oil / fuel dealer, or oil -field tooling supply house (as an example how you can adapt most any switching layout to most any locale and era, and in this case, Oklahoma.

There was an interesting urban layout that I'll search for - it was in one of Kalmbach's how to do it books from half a century ago - and it certainly could be adapted to an Oklahoma setting, just one a bit more conjested than the last one I described. It had a partially hidden fairly steep short section of track that started out on a lower level near one end of the point to point layout and ducked under a rail girder bridge(or sub a trestle), and behind the lower level of the layout emerging behind and above that lower level at the opposit end of the layout. It was in essence, a switch back in the streets, which added more trackage than was possible if it had all been on one level, as well as it created an operational complexity, slowing down the trains, implying a longer run.
If I can locate it, I'll get a copy to you.

Lastly, you should consider modeling an era when 36 - 40 foot freight cars were the norm, as well as short commuter coaches, or even just a gas electric for an entire passenger train. If you use short steam engines, esp tank engines, you can forget about needing to turn them unless you want to. Also, the GE 44 Tonner, box cabs, and other short switchers needn't be turned unless you wanted to. Just provide a run arounf track for them at each end ot the layout. If you decide to model a more modern railroad in the future, you can downgrade your older, shorter equipment to MOW status, and you could have a tourist line to use your old prototype diesels, steam and passenger cars. Run short trains of short equipment on steeper grades in conjested areas and your layout will seem bigger than it is. If you don't always have the same rolling stock in sight, your layout will imply that it is actually a working enterprise and not just a display. That's another area where the "fiddle yard" proves so useful.

I wouldn't necessarily 'pigeon-hole' yourself into a particular prototype railroad at this early juncture, for you can always integrate this switching layout into a larger layout in the future. If you can get a copy of Linn Westcott's book about John Allen and his G & D layout, you'll get much inspiration and ideas for your layout, and you'll see how he integrated a small approx 4 x 7 foot layout into one of the most complete and wonderfully developed model railroads ever.
BILL.

[Anonymous]

What do you mean "Get bored running your trains in circles"!? Continuous run is the best!!!!