I had a problem with a black gunk building up on my track. I cleaned the rails and all the wheels on my loco's and rolling stock but after a while it would come back. This went on for a long time.
I had read about plastic wheels causing things like this because the attracted grime, but, I'll admit I was a doubter. Finally I figured what the heck. I was getting desperate. I went out a bought Proto metal wheel sets to replace all the plastic ones on my rolling stock. And guess what? That ended the mysterious black gunk!
So if there are still doubters out there as to the there is a difference between plastic or metal wheel sets and track cleanliness hear me well.
Doubt no more. Plastic wheel sets are pure evil! Mine are now used for flatcar loads and scrap scenes!
And they all railroaded on happily ever after.
Having heard both pro and con on the subject, I will say that after converting to metal wheelsets, I have far less 'gunk' buildup on the track (aside from the usual Sacramento Valley Pollen ), and my cars seem to roll much freer--which means my locos don't have to work as hard.
So as a matter of course, when I get a new freight car, I change out the wheels if they're plastic. I actually think they run much smoother and a lot cleaner--especially for someone with a California Basement (Garage) layout at the mercy of 'the elements'.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I'd rather have metal wheel sets just because of the sound. Metal wheels clacking on metal track sounds more realistic than silent plastic wheels.
I had the same epiphany! I've since converted every item of rolling stock to metal wheels and the track stays cleaner, the engines run more smoothly, and the sound is, well, clickity-clack!
My wheels of choice are Jay Bee. They're a bit pricy, but they are more likely to come in proper gauge and centered on their axles.
chicochip
MILW-RODR ..Metal wheels clacking on metal track sounds more realistic than silent plastic wheels.
..Metal wheels clacking on metal track sounds more realistic than silent plastic wheels.
I currently do not have metal wheels on any rolling stock, but am considering trying a few sets. I can believe that they roll smoother and keep the track cleaner, but I'm wondering about the noise. Don't know about the "clacking" sound changing between mosly flex track, a few pieces of sectional track and turnouts - does it sound a little weird?
I find the metal wheels to be a lot noisier than the plastic ones, and it's not, in my opinion, a particularly "realistic" noise, either.
Many newer cars come with metal wheels, but the majority of my rolling stock has plastic wheels. I don't change them out unless there's a problem with them, such as out-of-round or not perpendicular to the axle, or not concentric on the axle. Some of the older Walthers cars were notorious for this. I usually replace the offending wheelsets with more plastic ones, too, since I have quite a few spares on hand - given to me by a friend who does prefer the metal ones.
As for the plastic wheels causing the dirt, I seriously doubt it - I haven't had to clean track in over 15 years. The plastic wheels may spread the dirt around more, though - I've seen some pretty appalling conditions in some layout rooms. Some room preparation before building the layout works wonders, although, if your layout shares a room with other activities, you're probably doomed to clean track regularly.
Wayne
I was moving a short train of about five different boxcars to do a WPF image shoot just a few days ago. I noticed two boxcars wobbling, almost vibrating, as they rolled along, side by each as the Newfoundlanders would say. I lifted both cars and found that they were the only two with plastic wheels and the only two with gunk on their tires. Cleaned 'em up and they ran smoothly. I expect I'll be noticing their hitching step in the next few weeks.
-Crandell
On a side note: although I have made no scientific study, it is my belief that metal wheels burnish the rails a tiny bit each time that they pass. Hundreds of wheels per day do appear to make a difference in rail smoothness and lack of crud buildup. I have also "gleemed" parts of the layout but notice only minor differences in gunk between gleemed and non-gleemed areas. (little in either, slightly more black film on the non-gleemed areas.)
On the noise, with 25 car trains it was a bit loud at first but I quickly got used to it and I prefer the whirr and clack to the non-sounds of plastic. Real trains are of course noisy. Don't let potential noise scare you.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
Last month I switched out my entire fleet to metal wheelsets. I was prompted by a great article in the NMRA magazine - Scale Rails.
They ranked the metal wheelsets:
1) Intermountain Wheel Sets - Good to Very Good
2) Lifelike Wheel Sets - OK to Good
3) Kadee Wheel Sets - Poor to Good
I haven't noticed any gunk on the rails, but maybe it is too soon to tell for sure. What I have noticed is I get fewer derailments. I've only had one unexplained derailment since I switched. The metal wheelsets are heavier and have a low center of gravity, right over the area of action.
Marty
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Replaced all my plastic and I know the cars roll easier --you can tell just by pulling a string by hand
And they do sound better IMHO
51% share holder in the ME&O ( Wife owns the other 49% )
ME&O
I'm with Doc Wayne here. I think the environment has more to do with getting black gunk than anything else. If you are getting a lot of gunk on the rails though, plastic wheels will probably pick it up faster.
My train room is dustfree (w/sheetrocked ceiling) and dry, I have over 400 cars on the tracks, 65-70% have plastic wheels. I used to use Whal's Clipper Oil on the track (20 years) and cleaned the track once a year, a few years ago I switched to CRC 2-26 electronic cleaner and I've only cleaned the track three times in 2 1/2 years, about the same performance as the Wahl's Clipper Oil.
One thing I think helped me early on, was to change out the Athearn BB sintered iron wheels for NS from NWSL & JayBe. They are notorious for arcing (a major cause of black gunk especially with higher humidity). I also polish any pre-blackened wheels with a wire wheel in a dremel so that stuff is not left behind on the rails as it wears off the wheels.
If changing all your wheels and putting all that money in the pockets of the manufacturers floats your boat, by all means go for it.
Jay
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I have changed out around 250 wheel sets to PK 2000 wheels. At one time I was 20% metal wheels and rest plastic. I am now 90% metal wheels, and I still get the Black Gunk?
On my A-Line I have a 60 car train that I have not changed for 2 weeks, all metal wheels. On the B-Line I have a 25 car train that still have some plastic wheels, I think 5 with out looking. I have not cleaned the B-Line for two weeks, A-Line on the other hand every two days.
I think the gunk is caused by arcing from the engines wheels to the track. If the trains rolls easier there is less power draw, so less arcing. Less level your rails are, poorer contact and more arcing.
Reason I have came up with this idea is from my tracking cleaning cars. My bench has mainly left hand turns, 6 of them and only 2 right hand turns. My cleaning cars get 4 times more gunk on the right side than the left. As engines turn left weight shifts and right wheels don't make as good as contact, so there is more arcing.
I am going to guess Doc has been doing this for some time and has better (heaver ) engines, better track laying skills, better train room and maybe is DC. DC engines don't use the same voltage all the time like a DCC system. Heaver engines will have better wheel to rail contact so less arcing.
My 2 cents worth.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Well, Have been running HO cars since 1956, and when the metal wheels started appearing, I started converting. I have a little over 1400 freight cars on the railroad now, all have metal wheels. When a new car comes to the layout, two things happen: 1: any plastic wheels are replaced, 2: Kadee couplers replace all the foreign couplers. I have had excellent operations and seldom have to clean any track, except for a little dust at times.
Bob
Pretty good detective work, Ken. All of my locos (and many of the cars, too) have had weight added, and you're right: I am running DC. I took reasonable care while laying the track, although it's just Atlas code 83, with Atlas turnouts, so not much to screw-up. The room is finished (except for the un-painted concrete floor) and is a dedicated layout room. I never sweep the floor - if it needs cleaning, I use a shop vac - no dust raised and no abrasion on the floor to loosen dust, either.
Sounds like the best affirmative test you could do, plastic: dirt----metal: no dirt. can't get much simpler than that. The only problen I have is cost, OK to do a few cars, but to do a huge pile, and some of you have a LOT of cars, the cost must be phenomenal. Why would car manufacturers not include metal wheels with their product?
------------
Climb down off your soap box a mintue and look at the big picture..There is more at work then the "evils" of plastic wheels.
Let's start with human dandruff,human skin,pet hair,pet skin,electrical residue,dust,bug droppings,dust mites etc.
So,your metal wheels will also pick up this crud--just look at your locomotive wheels..
I use both plastic and metal wheels and notice both picks up this crud equally well.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I use metal wheels as well and like the sound and roll resistance.
One thing to consider is the method of cleaning track. Some chemicals can eat away at plastic wheels and cause more problems than they help. If using plastic wheels I'd recommend only using alcohol and then making sure the track is completely dry before running over them. Also if using a track cleaning car make sure there are no plastic wheeled cars riding with it, including the cleaning car.
Springfield PA
Like modelmaker51 I use non-residue tuner cleaner; I soak a piece of sponge and run it across the tracks and it gets it done. I still give my track an occasional treatment of Brite Boy! I have discovered that although it is awfully hard to clean wheels if you keep your track clean your wheels will stay clean. I have also made several profound discoveries in my life chief of which is that if you close the freezer door your ice stays frozen!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
First, some facts:
Based on the above, I have very rarely had to spot-wipe a limited area to eliminate locomotive 'stutter' or flickering passenger car lights. The usual culprit was construction debris or airborne dust, not wheel gunk.
Cars inspected after six months and probably a full-scale mile of running get their wheels cleaned. Gunk on the treads ranges from a little on the metal wheels to a little more on the plastic wheels - not enough to warrant a wholesale change to metal.
My conclusion is that, with a solid maintenance program in place, having a majority of metal wheels is probably sufficient to hold the problems at bay.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hi!
I bought a large lot of Intermountain 33 and some 36 inch wheelsets about a year ago, and all rolling stock used on the layout has been converted. The gunk buildup is pretty much gone, the cars roll more freely, and the ol clicketyclack is more pronounced. Before the transition, I thought the plastic wheelsets were part of the problem, but did not know for sure. Now I am convinced.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
BRAKIE I use both plastic and metal wheels and notice both picks up this crud equally well.
Jeez, I wonder why that is?
If you haven't figured this one out you have no place to tell someone to get of the soapbox. Now get off of your soapbox.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
tatansSounds like the best affirmative test you could do, plastic: dirt----metal: no dirt. can't get much simpler than that. The only problen I have is cost,
Oh by the way the club also spent several thousand dollars putting in a new drop ceiling, new dry wall on the walls, sealing the floor, putting filters in the air system, etc. None of which helped the clean track issue. Well, I shouldn't say that. I am certain they all helped the issue. Let me say, none of which solved the issue. I started a program to gleam the rails but after weeks of just polishing the rail I calculated at the current rate I was achieving that it would take about a year to finish, so I gave up as there is just too much there to do.
BRAKIELet's start with human dandruff,human skin,pet hair,pet skin,electrical residue,dust,bug droppings,dust mites etc.
How do you recommend getting rid of this stuff? Some are easy: shampoo, shoot the pets, etc., but what about the rest?
- Harry
Texas ZephertatansSounds like the best affirmative test you could do, plastic: dirt----metal: no dirt. can't get much simpler than that. The only problen I have is cost, No, the other problem is there is still some other variable. Our club spent several thousand dollars, converted to 100% metal wheels just for this issue. Didn't work. We still get the gunk, and now we have all that tinny noise to deal with. Which is not realistic in any stretch of the imagination. So I am still a doubter until I can do a really scientific study where I can control all the variables. Oh by the way the club also spent several thousand dollars putting in a new drop ceiling, new dry wall on the walls, sealing the floor, putting filters in the air system, etc. None of which helped the clean track issue. Well, I shouldn't say that. I am certain they all helped the issue. Let me say, none of which solved the issue. I started a program to gleam the rails but after weeks of just polishing the rail I calculated at the current rate I was achieving that it would take about a year to finish, so I gave up as there is just too much there to do.
Something to be said for smaller layouts
HarryHotspur BRAKIE Let's start with human dandruff,human skin,pet hair,pet skin,electrical residue,dust,bug droppings,dust mites etc. How do you recommend getting rid of this stuff? Some are easy: shampoo, shoot the pets, etc., but what about the rest?
BRAKIE Let's start with human dandruff,human skin,pet hair,pet skin,electrical residue,dust,bug droppings,dust mites etc.
Harry,Not much we can do..Our skin flakes in micro particles,dust is a unbeatable foe.Bug droppings..What can I say but,bugs are a way of life from ants to spiders regardless how clean we keep our homes.These critters loves our basements,attics and garages.
I even seen mice dropping on the track at a HO club-the varmint built a rather nice nest in a tunnel during our layout rebuilding project-actually only the open areas (about 90%of the layout) got rebuilt/re scenic.
Geared Steam BRAKIE I use both plastic and metal wheels and notice both picks up this crud equally well. Jeez, I wonder why that is? If you haven't figured this one out you have no place to tell someone to get of the soapbox. Now get off of your soapbox.
Sorry..I didn't mean to talk over your head..I see you have very little knowledge of the real problem.
Chartiers MILW-RODR ..Metal wheels clacking on metal track sounds more realistic than silent plastic wheels. I currently do not have metal wheels on any rolling stock, but am considering trying a few sets. I can believe that they roll smoother and keep the track cleaner, but I'm wondering about the noise. Don't know about the "clacking" sound changing between mosly flex track, a few pieces of sectional track and turnouts - does it sound a little weird?
I use proto wheels, which fit very well into the trucks of Athearn blue box and older MDC Roundhouse kits. Not sure every manufacturer's wheel sets fit as precisely into the trucks of all makers of rolling stock. Some have a little too much slack and others cause the trucks to have to be reamed a bit.
They are noisier than plastic. I hear more than the clack. I can hear them as they roll on the non jointed part of flex track. Its not exactly prototypical but not annoying either. Even if you like dead silent locos and rolling stock, I think the benefits of easier rolling cars, cleaner track, and a bit better tracking since metal is heavier than than plastic, outweigh the noise.
- Douglas
Undoubtedly each situation is different. Metal wheels solved my problem.
I use Intermountain wheels mostly for their rolling qualities. Some cars come with metal wheels with plastic axles and roll as if someone forgot to release the handbrake, so they get changed.
In the eight years i had my layout, I only cleaned the track once, using a bright boy. The only times I've experienced erratic running due to dirty track is after a long period of inactivity, and running a 30 car train a few laps seems to clear things up.
Since eliminating plastic wheels, I've had no gunk buildup problems'
Dave
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