Economy Locomotives

[Anonymous]

Roadtrip, Just got back from a GATS in Knoxville and was looking thru a Fall '91 issue of "Trains illustrated" I acquired and there's more info an the D&H's PAs and Sharks. The D&H acquired the PA1s from ATSF in 1967. There is a photo of one of the PAs running in D&H paint in 1969 on the Montreal-New York 'Laurentan' . Apparantly sometime shortly after this the New York-Montreal service was idled due to Amtrak gobligoop and financial woos at D&H. The PAs were utilized elsewhere on the D&H system however, and if memory serves me right, in freight service too. Not sure about this-just memory. . .In 1974 the Alco PA1s and D&H passenger equipment was refurbished as stated in my earlier post, and the PAs were upgraded from PA1s to PA4s. The Baldwin RF16s were acquired from the Monongahela Railway in 1974 and immediately repainted and pressed into freight service. Now the good part for your hypothetical acquisition of one of the D&H Sharks: the Sharks were retired in late 1977, along with the forced retirement of the D&H president, and the PAs followed suit in 1978. Without digging into this any deeper right now, I am certain that the PAs ended up in Mexico in 1978 and according to "Trains illustrated", the Sharks may have gone 'south of the border' in 1977; article, as is my memory, a little vague-intentionally? Business is 'conducted' a little differently at times in Mexico, so you've got all kinds of creative scenarios as to how you got one to Minnesota. . .

[Roadtrp]

Bill,

Great information!!

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Roadtrip, You may or may not know that the Delaware & Hudson RR purchased the last surviving pair of second hand RF16 Sharks in the early 70's (not sure of date) and ran them in freight service for a few years. I think they got them from the Monongahela RR which I (again) think was 'part of' NYC. Unlike other former owners of Sharks, the D&H kept them quite clean. As an aside, around the same time, the D&H purchased two pairs of traded in ex-ATSF Alco PAs and reinstated passenger service between Albany and Montreal; remember this was in the early years of Amtrak and almost all other roads had bailed-out of the passenger business by then, gladly turning it over to Amtrak. The D&H Alco PAs retained the ATSF's 'war bonnet' paint scheme on the sides-the stainless (natural metal) finish remained as it was on ATSF and what had been red on the forward part of the ATSF body sides and nose was now D&H blue. The striping on the side that separated the natural metal from the painted portion retained the yellow stripe from the ATSF and replaced the red part, again with D&H blue. There was a yellow D&H herald and a v'd stripe on the nose extending down the side to the leading edge of the cab door (halfway up the carbody). Now picture exactly the same paint treatment on an RF16 Shark and that is how the D&H repainted their Sharks! The PAs were joint - leased out to the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority/Boston & Maine RR for commuter service in the Boston area in the late 70s and I believe retired after that. I don't know what happened to the pair of Sharks (most of my reference material is still unpacked-I just moved intoa new house. If no one tells you anything else as to the fate of the Sharks, I guess it could be feasible that your RR rescued one from the scrap heap! I dare you to retain a semblence of the ATSF/D&H paint scheme: just substitute your rr's primary color for the D&H blue. Check out the ER unit-they may offer a D&H paint scheme. Model Power offered the HO version of their Shark in the absolutely incorrect ATSF paint scheme (ATSF never had any Sharks), and the paint work was awful. Athearn offered the PAs in the D&H scheme and it was very nicely done. Go for it!

[Roadtrp]

Bill,

I had no idea I would find anything -- I just thought it would be fun to do an internet search for Baldwin Shark models. I also found that E-R produces the Shark in N scale, which is very tempting for me... I love the looks of that loco. Sadly, none of the RR's being offered ever came near Minnesota. I'm also modeling the 80's-90's, and the appearance of a Shark would be a little difficult to explain.

Hey... I've got an idea. They offer a demo model Shark carrying the Baldwin Locomotive Works logo. My story could be that Baldwin sent a demo unit to Minnesota, and somehow it got forgotten about in a locomotive shed that was abandoned years ago. An enterprising railfan happened upon the old shed and found the Shark. He decided to restore the loco and start up an Excursion train!

That's not TOO unbelievable, is it?? [:P][(-D][:P]

[Anonymous]

Thanks for correcting my momentary brain fade re E-R Models; I (now) recall that they are a re-release of the Model Power 'Sharks' and that's a good thing. Bowser had some neat upgrade stuff awhile back for those modeling PRR's 'Sharks' - may be still available. The sideframes on the former MP 'Sharks' and possibly on E-R Models' are slightly incorrect-for economy they used the same side frames as they used on their Alco FAs which are similar; only a diehard Baldwin fan would notice however. Just weather the daylights-no pun intended -out of them since prototypes were often used in coal hauling drags and were filthy most of the time(except D&H which ran a couple of 2nd hand units and kept them shiny usually). . .Also, don't mu w/ other than Baldwin units since prototype couldn't if I remember correctly; please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bill mathewson

Model Power made a couple of decent low cost diesels a while back-very smooth running and powerful Alco FAs and Baldwin Sharks-and at a time when FAs weren't available from anyone except in brass, and Sharks still aren't.

You can find ANYTHING on the internet...

E-R Models has an HO Baldwin Shark. It is available directly from ER Models:
http://www.ermodels.com/productsbymanuf.htm?Category=TR_HO_040&PrevProduct=&NextProduct=040-4011-1&NBReset=4

Or from Lucky Irishman Discount Hobbies:
http://www.luckyirishmandiscounthobbies.com/Trainproducts8.html

I have no experience with either vendor, so I can't give any recommendation about their service.

[Anonymous]

Sticking to the HO side of the discussion, Athearn's 'blue box' engines can all be improved, at least older ones (since I am just returning to the hobby after about 10 years doing other stuff-just got a basement finally!), by improving the power pickup on top of the motor housing to the trucks- that long stamped flat steel? strip that clips on top of the motor. "Model Railroading" (not Model Railroader) magazine published a book re: Improving Athearn blah blah blah-can't remember exact title-it is a great source of simple, inexpensive mods to improve most all Athearn products. Only problem with their GP7/9? and SD7/9? was the body shell is too wide due to width of Athearn's motor; don't know about other later diesels since I'm stuck in the early 50's. Remember when that kind of thing went unnoticed? I believe the W althers' Alco FA units were once upon a time tooled by now defunct Train-Miniature- the first decent rival to Athearn 30 years ago but they never went beyond the FA units when they went out of business, Model Power made a couple of decent low cost diesels a while back-very smooth running and powerful Alco FAs and Baldwin Sharks-and at a time when FAs weren't available from anyone except in brass, and Sharks still aren't. Lets forget the forgettable TYCO/Mantua Sharks-they never even counted. As far as cost is concerned , a little judicious shopping at train shows and mail order shopping enables one to get earlier releases of Proto 1000 /2000 or Spectrum stuff at just a few $$ more than Athearn Blue Box. Frankly, Athearn had not kept pace with their competitors who have been able to offer a lot more accuracy, better paint /markings and performance for a little more money. I was shocked at the price for Athearn Genesis F units but also amazed at the differance in a side by side comparo with a Blue Box F unit. The lattter looked just fine until I saw their Genesis piece! Best bang for the buck, in my opinion, are the Proto 1000/2000 and Spectrum offerings

[Anonymous]

I like Atheans better that Bachamm better quality

[dharmon]

As thick as the plastic is on blue box shells, if they were made in N scale, there'd be no room for a motor. [:)]

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE


Let me call your attention to this shop.I have dealt with this company when I started my short but ill fated trip back into N scale.

http://www.buynscale.com/Locomotives.htm

Thanks for the link -- that is a great site! [:)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by t3488g
[br
Are we talking about N or HO?
Bigboy: Bachmann steam engines are god are they?[:p]lol

Sorry about that. I was too much a rookie to know that there would be a difference between a company's HO product and their N product. I figured quality would be similar in both scales. I really learned something today. I also did not know that Blue Box kits were available only in HO scale. Oh well... the thread has been informative anyway. [:I]

[BentnoseWillie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

You mean some people model in something other than 'N' scale?

Whodathunkit?

Don't you start...[:P]

[mikebonellisr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

Mehano (IHC) makes a good Steam Engine providing you're not overly concerned with accuracy

It's a good place to start.Remove the cast-on detail and apply cary,cal scale or psc parts. You can end up with a decent looking model

[Budliner]

I go sucked in to the life like double header set 21607 gp-38 high nose w dummy
and that is my all time low loco but I love the sd-9 p2k
I say AHM is a good cheep unit

[Anonymous]

I'll restate the obvious: "Athearn Blue Box hands down."
------------------------------
CB&Q rules!!!![;)]
Wabash RR rules![;)]
EVERYWHERE WEST/WAY of the ZEPHYRS!!!![8D]

[Anonymous]

Bachmann and life like don't come close to Athearn. IMO (in my opinion) Bachmann is better than Life like, i have found that the end with the wheels that turn is higher than the other end. Also the cars don't go over switch tracks very well, but with a wheel change this problem is fixed.
On thing that anoys me with Bachmann and Life like is that at high speeds the light llights the body not just the head light and the windows.

As for steam, IHC makes farly cheap locos. I have a IHC 2-8-2 Mikado for $140(can), it worked fine until i stored it for a few months while we were developing our basement, and now it goes slow a makes grinding noises.

Are we talking about N or HO?
Bigboy: Bachmann steam engines are god are they?[:p]lol

[BRAKIE]

Ok,I also thought we was talking HO..The Life Like N scale units isn't all that bad..The LL GP20 is one fine unit that can take its rightful place next to a Atlas or Kato locomotive.

Let me call your attention to this shop.I have dealt with this company when I started my short but ill fated trip back into N scale.

http://www.buynscale.com/Locomotives.htm

[Anonymous]

Bachmann steamers are pretty god. My 0-6-0 is quieter than my Spectrum 4-8-2!!!

[CBQ_Guy]

I've found the most dependable, well running and economical locos, by far, are Dummy Units!!!

Sure helps the budget! Ours not the manufacturers. I guess they finally figured that out!

Too bad...[:(]

[Roadtrp]

You mean some people model in something other than 'N' scale?

Whodathunkit?

[:D]

[AggroJones]

Bachmann and LifeLife standard lines don't even count in the real model world. Athearn rules for economy.

[BentnoseWillie]

Eureka!

I never dreamed we were talking N scale, because we started talking about Athearn Blue-Box, which are HO products.

Life-Like does in fact make N scale diesels under the Life-Like name with decent drives, whereas that label in HO is a danger sign. Now it all makes sense...

[dharmon]

Ah ha! I belive that there was a confusion in scales here...the LL products that BW was describing are HO not N.

[Roadtrp]

BentnoseWillie,

I'm sure the locos are Life Like -- I bought them new. One in December, one in February. They may be Proto 1000 but not advertised as such, although I guess I would doubt that. They do FOR SURE have all metal wheels, and all wheels are driven. Here are the listings:

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lif/lif7641.htm

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lif/lif7841.htm

Those two listings don't specifically mention a flywheel, but this one for another Life Like standard product does:

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lif/lif7752.htm


I don't mind your skepticism... I am admittedly a rookie. But in this instance I'm quite certain of what I'm talking about.

[:)]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

Someone want to tell me what IMHO stands for, please

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)
Enjoy
Paul[8D][8D]

Thank You

I thought it was Inconsistant Mental Health Organization[:)]

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

Someone want to tell me what IMHO stands for, please

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)
Enjoy
Paul[8D][8D]

Thank You

[CP5415]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

One of the other nice things about the Athearn BBs is that because of part commonality, you can literally build a loco from pieces and parts...

I went to a swap meet this past weekend. At one table a gent sold me four blue boxes of GE pieces and parts...I'm not a big GE fan but..... the guy said 5 bucks and I asked for which box..he said all..I couldn't pass it up. Then at another table a gent had a small box of Athearn pieces and parts he sold me for a buck. When I got home.....I was able to put togehter 4 U30Cs (3 dummies + 1 with power trucks but no motor...which is okay, I just happened to have one), an FP45 frame with power trucks (no gears or motor, but I had a shell on hand and wanted a dummy anyway) and a SD40/45 frame and trucks (perfect for a RPP SD40 shell). And I got some parts left over that are forming ideas in my head already.

So in all, 5 soon to be six locos for 6 bucks. With a little work and a few more parts, any one of or all can be powered or l can have one or two powered chassis and swap the shells or whatever.

The thing about it is, Athearns are like clay. They are simple and give you material to work with. Its not that I'm trying to be cheap, but for me the challenge of building/rebuilding and detailling, painting these cast offs is much more enjoyable than opening a box and putting it on the rails. It may be a function of when I started modelling that it was how it was done. Every MR and RMC in the late 70s early 80s it seemed, had an article on kitbashing a SD45-2 or tunnel motor from Athearn parts, because they weren't available except in brass. Before RPP or P2K or Kato, If you wanted it, you built it and that meant a blue box frame and extra shells.

Like many short lines, my RR uses second/third hand power.....as it seems that is closer to reality with my modelling too.

Excellent score!!!!!
I wish I could find stuff like that!!

Gordon

[dharmon]

One of the other nice things about the Athearn BBs is that because of part commonality, you can literally build a loco from pieces and parts...

I went to a swap meet this past weekend. At one table a gent sold me four blue boxes of GE pieces and parts...I'm not a big GE fan but..... the guy said 5 bucks and I asked for which box..he said all..I couldn't pass it up. Then at another table a gent had a small box of Athearn pieces and parts he sold me for a buck. When I got home.....I was able to put togehter 4 U30Cs (3 dummies + 1 with power trucks but no motor...which is okay, I just happened to have one), an FP45 frame with power trucks (no gears or motor, but I had a shell on hand and wanted a dummy anyway) and a SD40/45 frame and trucks (perfect for a RPP SD40 shell). And I got some parts left over that are forming ideas in my head already.

So in all, 5 soon to be six locos for 6 bucks. With a little work and a few more parts, any one of or all can be powered or l can have one or two powered chassis and swap the shells or whatever.

The thing about it is, Athearns are like clay. They are simple and give you material to work with. Its not that I'm trying to be cheap, but for me the challenge of building/rebuilding and detailling, painting these cast offs is much more enjoyable than opening a box and putting it on the rails. It may be a function of when I started modelling that it was how it was done. Every MR and RMC in the late 70s early 80s it seemed, had an article on kitbashing a SD45-2 or tunnel motor from Athearn parts, because they weren't available except in brass. Before RPP or P2K or Kato, If you wanted it, you built it and that meant a blue box frame and extra shells.

Like many short lines, my RR uses second/third hand power.....as it seems that is closer to reality with my modelling too.

[BentnoseWillie]

Roadtrp - Life Like has more than one line of locomotives. The Proto 1000 and Proto 2000 series do have flywheels and good motors - they're also twice as much money as an Athearn blue-box model. The trainset models have, as far as I know, the same old pancake-motor drive they've had for decades.

Life Like's listing on their site for regular-line locomotives makes no mention of a flywheel drive, which is why I think you may be looking at their description of Proto 1000/Proto 2000 locomotives. Furthermore, Life Like have not made an F40PH in the premium Proto 1000 or Proto 2000 lines, only in the "trainset" line with the pancake motor and a plastic frame. They also pulled the Proto 2000 GP38-2 off the shelf very quickly late in 2003 to correct a major error in teh tooling.

It is possible that your F40PH is actually the Bachmann Spectrum one (which had the type drive you describe), and the 38-2 is one of those very few Proto 2000 models that reached store shelves and were subsequently sold off cheap. That would explain the confusion here, though those models are in a higher price range than the basic Athearn line. If you bought that GP28-2 before last fall, it's either the regular trainset-grade Life Like model, or an Athearn.

[Roadtrp]

I think there may be a big difference between new Life Like product and older stuff that everyone seems to base their opinion on. I'm very certain the engines have those features -- all wheels on my locomotives are metal and all wheels are driven. Again, as listed on the site:

"All-wheel drive, all-wheel electrical pickup.
Blackened metal wheels on detailed black trucks."