Economy Locomotives

[Roadtrp]

Bachmann and Life Like are the two major manufacturers of inexpensive locomotives that I am aware of. Please list any others you know about.

[orsonroy]

You missed two: Life Like Proto 1000 and Athearn "Blue Box". You can pick up P1K F3's and C-liners for $20, and the same can be said for the good old Blue Box F units and Geeps. Both are powerful, inexpensive locos that will last a long time. Athearn engines are still the backbone of most engine fleets, and they're NOT the genesis stuff!

[Roadtrp]

I've added Athearn "Blue Box" to the poll -- I had included Proto 1000 as one of the premium locomotives. Although P1K prices might occasionally compete with the economy locos, there is no way Life Like or Bachmann Standard could compete with them, so I did not list them as an "economy locomotive".

[Fergmiester]

Mehano (IHC) makes a good Steam Engine providing you're not overly concerned with accuracy

[CP5415]

My locomotive fleet is a loaded with Athearn's.

Gordon

[AntonioFP45]

Athearn all the way, even with the growls! Nothing that an A-Line kit couldn't help.

If the old Lifelike and Bachmann locomotive lines are still being produced with the single 3 pole truck motor, then IMHO, they're not worth even considering.

[Fergmiester]

Someone want to tell me what IMHO stands for, please

[Anonymous]

Hi there,
I `d like to post a message here because I need some information about the American Market for Model Railroading. Does somebody know where I can find some market data?
I need the following information:
American Manufacturers by size (employees, sales)?
Most favorite brands on HO scale?
Overall market size in US for Model Railroads and auxiliaries?
Please Help!
Best wishes to all of you in this board
Michael (Germany)

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

Someone want to tell me what IMHO stands for, please

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)
Enjoy
Paul[8D][8D]

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Blue CF

Hi there,
I `d like to post a message here because I need some information about the American Market for Model Railroading. Does somebody know where I can find some market data?
I need the following information:
American Manufacturers by size (employees, sales)?
Most favorite brands on HO scale?
Overall market size in US for Model Railroads and auxiliaries?
Please Help!
Best wishes to all of you in this board
Michael (Germany)

Michael,

Basically every model railroad manufacturer in the American market is a privately-held corporation, and none of them give out their sales statistics. I suppose you could get some sort of statistics through the MRIA, but it'll be deliberately vague. Since tax records are public property, you could also get some sort of picture the hard way: contact the IRS through the Freedom of Information Act and ask for past tax files for every target company. That's a pretty long way to go though.

[BentnoseWillie]

For diesels, Athearn blue-box, hands down. I don't even consider Life-Like or Bachmann's regular lines.

For steam, I hear good things about recent offerings from Mehano (sold in North America by IHC).

[Anonymous]

Basically every model railroad manufacturer in the American market is a privately-held corporation, and none of them give out their sales statistics. I suppose you could get some sort of statistics through the MRIA, but it'll be deliberately vague. Since tax records are public property, you could also get some sort of picture the hard way: contact the IRS through the Freedom of Information Act and ask for past tax files for every target company. That's a pretty long way to go though.


Hi Ray,

yes this might be the hard and dusty road to success. I have also written an Email to the MRIA but have not receved an answer yet. Iwas pretty optimistic in the beginning since the same numers for Germany and Europe are freely available, although those companies are also privately held. I wait for more postings - maybe someone else has an idea. But thanks for your reply and support...
Michael

[dharmon]

In order:

1. Athearn
2. Athearn
3. Athearn

Blue Box motive power is the best bang for your buck hands down. Dependable, tough and easy to work with. The can be detailed to you hearts content, repowered, re-wheeled what ever or left alone. If there was a "most influencial MR product of the 20th century" I would have to say it was the blue box. Even at MSRP they are still pretty good price wise, but internet, ebay and swap meets will yield you some finds.

[Anonymous]

I agree because when I was looking for something to replace my ailing Bachmann and AHM locomotives the Athearn Blue Box was the choice. One hobby shop suggested the Bachmann standard but they had an Athearn GP38-2 for 5-6 bucks more. I'm not disappointed with the performance and robust details. (i.e. strong enought to stand up to the pink sky hook)

Actually I like the Athearn better than two GP30 P2K locomotives. The P2K are stuck on the bad order list until I get over the fact I have to tear down and relube brand new locomotives.

DT

[Roadtrp]

Blue Box is kicking booty, as I expected when I added it to the poll. It really isn't a fair comparison though, because you are comparing kits to RTR. If you purchase Athearn RTR, the prices are similar to Proto 2000, so you really aren't in the economy class anymore.

FYI... Life Like presently uses 5-pole motors. I don't know the situation with Bachmann.

I have two Life Like locomotives; an F40PH and a GP38-2. I've been pleased with both of them, and am a little surprised that they are so poorly thought of.

[AntonioFP45]

Roadtrp,

Regarding today's "economy" LifeLikes: Are the motors truck mounted or are they chassis mounted with flywheels?

Thanks.......[swg]

[BentnoseWillie]

QUOTE: Blue Box is kicking booty, as I expected when I added it to the poll. It really isn't a fair comparison though, because you are comparing kits to RTR. If you purchase Athearn RTR, the prices are similar to Proto 2000, so you really aren't in the economy class anymore.

Yes and no - the Athearn "kit" doesn't take very long to assemble. Maybe an hour to add the horn, handrails, and truck details, and install couplers. They're not a kit in the truest sense, more a RTR engine with some parts left for you to add. I got my first Athearn at age 14, and never looked back.

Unless the Life-Like GP38-2 and F40PH have changed a lot, you'd quickly be spoiled for them by an Athearn.

[jjbmish]

Athearn is the best. I have been running these engines for over 25 years and after 10 years in a box they still run great. A little noisy but thats not a problem, unless the cats get to interested. But that's a different thread LOL
John

[Anonymous]

I voted Athearn, as I have a fleet of these locos and have never had any "duds". I would also suggest Walthers Trainline - they do a FA and GP9M that I am aware of as being reasonably cheap, They seem to run well too from what I've seen of them. I'm considering buying one of the FAs when I next go "train shopping".

[Roadtrp]

Antonio,

I've never opened the locomotives, but the features listed for the locomotives at an internet site I've used include:
"Machined brass flywheel.
5-pole skewed armature."
[:)]

[BentnoseWillie]

Roadtrp - I doubt that your F40 and GP38-2 have those features. I'm pretty sure that Life-Like haven't done the GP38-2 or the F40 that way, unless you got a first-run Proto 2000 GP38-2 that got to a dealer before they were recalled for rework to correct some serious detail errors.

I'm guessing that if you removed the shell from your engines, you'd find a vertically-mounted "pancake" motor on the front truck, and an idler rear truck. You can tell without removing the shell by looking at the wheels - the models with flywheels and the 5-pole motor have all metal wheels.

[Roadtrp]

I think there may be a big difference between new Life Like product and older stuff that everyone seems to base their opinion on. I'm very certain the engines have those features -- all wheels on my locomotives are metal and all wheels are driven. Again, as listed on the site:

"All-wheel drive, all-wheel electrical pickup.
Blackened metal wheels on detailed black trucks."

[BentnoseWillie]

Roadtrp - Life Like has more than one line of locomotives. The Proto 1000 and Proto 2000 series do have flywheels and good motors - they're also twice as much money as an Athearn blue-box model. The trainset models have, as far as I know, the same old pancake-motor drive they've had for decades.

Life Like's listing on their site for regular-line locomotives makes no mention of a flywheel drive, which is why I think you may be looking at their description of Proto 1000/Proto 2000 locomotives. Furthermore, Life Like have not made an F40PH in the premium Proto 1000 or Proto 2000 lines, only in the "trainset" line with the pancake motor and a plastic frame. They also pulled the Proto 2000 GP38-2 off the shelf very quickly late in 2003 to correct a major error in teh tooling.

It is possible that your F40PH is actually the Bachmann Spectrum one (which had the type drive you describe), and the 38-2 is one of those very few Proto 2000 models that reached store shelves and were subsequently sold off cheap. That would explain the confusion here, though those models are in a higher price range than the basic Athearn line. If you bought that GP28-2 before last fall, it's either the regular trainset-grade Life Like model, or an Athearn.

[dharmon]

One of the other nice things about the Athearn BBs is that because of part commonality, you can literally build a loco from pieces and parts...

I went to a swap meet this past weekend. At one table a gent sold me four blue boxes of GE pieces and parts...I'm not a big GE fan but..... the guy said 5 bucks and I asked for which box..he said all..I couldn't pass it up. Then at another table a gent had a small box of Athearn pieces and parts he sold me for a buck. When I got home.....I was able to put togehter 4 U30Cs (3 dummies + 1 with power trucks but no motor...which is okay, I just happened to have one), an FP45 frame with power trucks (no gears or motor, but I had a shell on hand and wanted a dummy anyway) and a SD40/45 frame and trucks (perfect for a RPP SD40 shell). And I got some parts left over that are forming ideas in my head already.

So in all, 5 soon to be six locos for 6 bucks. With a little work and a few more parts, any one of or all can be powered or l can have one or two powered chassis and swap the shells or whatever.

The thing about it is, Athearns are like clay. They are simple and give you material to work with. Its not that I'm trying to be cheap, but for me the challenge of building/rebuilding and detailling, painting these cast offs is much more enjoyable than opening a box and putting it on the rails. It may be a function of when I started modelling that it was how it was done. Every MR and RMC in the late 70s early 80s it seemed, had an article on kitbashing a SD45-2 or tunnel motor from Athearn parts, because they weren't available except in brass. Before RPP or P2K or Kato, If you wanted it, you built it and that meant a blue box frame and extra shells.

Like many short lines, my RR uses second/third hand power.....as it seems that is closer to reality with my modelling too.

[CP5415]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

One of the other nice things about the Athearn BBs is that because of part commonality, you can literally build a loco from pieces and parts...

I went to a swap meet this past weekend. At one table a gent sold me four blue boxes of GE pieces and parts...I'm not a big GE fan but..... the guy said 5 bucks and I asked for which box..he said all..I couldn't pass it up. Then at another table a gent had a small box of Athearn pieces and parts he sold me for a buck. When I got home.....I was able to put togehter 4 U30Cs (3 dummies + 1 with power trucks but no motor...which is okay, I just happened to have one), an FP45 frame with power trucks (no gears or motor, but I had a shell on hand and wanted a dummy anyway) and a SD40/45 frame and trucks (perfect for a RPP SD40 shell). And I got some parts left over that are forming ideas in my head already.

So in all, 5 soon to be six locos for 6 bucks. With a little work and a few more parts, any one of or all can be powered or l can have one or two powered chassis and swap the shells or whatever.

The thing about it is, Athearns are like clay. They are simple and give you material to work with. Its not that I'm trying to be cheap, but for me the challenge of building/rebuilding and detailling, painting these cast offs is much more enjoyable than opening a box and putting it on the rails. It may be a function of when I started modelling that it was how it was done. Every MR and RMC in the late 70s early 80s it seemed, had an article on kitbashing a SD45-2 or tunnel motor from Athearn parts, because they weren't available except in brass. Before RPP or P2K or Kato, If you wanted it, you built it and that meant a blue box frame and extra shells.

Like many short lines, my RR uses second/third hand power.....as it seems that is closer to reality with my modelling too.

Excellent score!!!!!
I wish I could find stuff like that!!

Gordon

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

Someone want to tell me what IMHO stands for, please

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)
Enjoy
Paul[8D][8D]

Thank You

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

Someone want to tell me what IMHO stands for, please

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)
Enjoy
Paul[8D][8D]

Thank You

I thought it was Inconsistant Mental Health Organization[:)]

[Roadtrp]

BentnoseWillie,

I'm sure the locos are Life Like -- I bought them new. One in December, one in February. They may be Proto 1000 but not advertised as such, although I guess I would doubt that. They do FOR SURE have all metal wheels, and all wheels are driven. Here are the listings:

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lif/lif7641.htm

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lif/lif7841.htm

Those two listings don't specifically mention a flywheel, but this one for another Life Like standard product does:

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lif/lif7752.htm


I don't mind your skepticism... I am admittedly a rookie. But in this instance I'm quite certain of what I'm talking about.

[:)]

[dharmon]

Ah ha! I belive that there was a confusion in scales here...the LL products that BW was describing are HO not N.

[BentnoseWillie]

Eureka!

I never dreamed we were talking N scale, because we started talking about Athearn Blue-Box, which are HO products.

Life-Like does in fact make N scale diesels under the Life-Like name with decent drives, whereas that label in HO is a danger sign. Now it all makes sense...