Hello Crew
I've always liked the Budd "Metros" as they were America's fastest regularly scheduled passenger trains from 1969 thru the early 80s before the self-propelled MU units were bumped off in place of AEM-7 hauled Metroliner Service trains. The first units delivered in 1967-68 wore the Pennsy Keystones but Penn Central got the credit for getting them into service. Inspite of some glitches, the service was very popular.
These are "long-out-of-production" Bachmann Amtrak Metroliners that I bought new in a set back in the early 1990s. I won 3 more in ebay within the past 2 years. They were used but in very good shape. To be blunt, the drive in the powered car is junk. But the body shells and underframe detailing look decent when compared to the prototype photos.
So far I've metalized 4 shells.
1. First, I removed the shells off the underframes and removed the pantographs.
2. I cut out the one-piece blue plastic window on each car (man, that was a chore! ).
3. The 91% alcohol bath! , Bachmann's paint floated off within minutes. I followed up with a toothbrush scrub and then a wash with soapy warm water.
4. Next day I sprayed the shells in Scale Coat II Gloss Black that I picked up at my LHS, Happy Hobo Trains (thanks Kevin).
Happy to report that the Alcald II went on very smoothly with no problems. I used a Badger dual-action Universal 360 airbrush. Air pressure set between 12 and 15 p.s.i. Sprayed in long strokes. May be difficult to see here, but the 1st coat of Alclad is very transparent and appears dark.
After a 15 minute wait, the 2nd coat was applied to each shell.
The Alclad reflects the base color. The smoother the base.....the smoother the metalizer appears.
Thankfully, so far it's going well. I'm a long way from being finished. The next step will be to apply the gloss clear coat for decals followed by a final gloss coat. This will tone down the sheen "just a wee-bit" to a realistic appearance, imho. The cab sections will have to be painted white and hopefully I can find some black PC "worm" decals. The tricky part will be that red stripe around the cab as pictured below on the prototype.
To honor a kind gentleman who is a member of the Suncoast Model Railroader's Club, I will do one of the Metros in the Pennsy Keystone scheme. He's a Pennsy fan to the core and cringes at the mere mention of the Penn Central name.
I hope to post the finished results on another thread. I still have to weather underframes, paint interiors, illuminate the interiors, and repower the lead car. Mark Newton suggested a good solution with the Bull Ant power truck on a thread one year ago.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Their looking good Antonio. Keep us posted on your progress.
Charlie
MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub
-Morgan
Hmm, smooth black undercoat - what was the pressure you sprayed the Scalecoat II black at (also, did you thin or not).
Just asking, as I brought some scalecoat gloss black & some Alclad, gonna paint a few things, and I'd like to get it right the first time, so let us learn from your mistake.
(Don't fee bad, I've spazzed out plenty of times in the paint & finish section of a project - that's why I'd like to learn)
Jerry SP FOREVER http://photobucket.com/albums/f317/GAPPLEG/
Guys,
Thank you for your encouraging comments. The photos look dark because I'm still an incompetent "Yutz" with digital cameras and taking shots indoors. I will photograph the shells in the sunlight and post them here.
Hello Flashwave,
The black base is what the Alclad Metalizer reflects. I noticed that some of the early 1940s Budd and ACF cars had a "whiter" appearance to them. For that effect, a dark grey base would be better to use.
Gappleg..
I visited several scale model forums on the web. I read more than once that some modelers, ironically, had trouble with Alclad's gloss black. I didn't want to take the chance. I remembered that in the 2003 MRR issue where a modeler metalized his N-scale RDCs, he stated that he used the Scale Coat II gloss black as his base, so that's the route I took. I actually prefer acrylics, however on one of the websites I visited a skilled modeler who had experimented with various basecoats stated that for metalizing, solvent base on top of solvent base seemed to yield the best results.
BTW: David is on the mark with the 50/50 thinning ratio. However, for clear coating Alclad, Polly Scale Gloss Clear works just fine, which is what I used on the Rivorossi cars that I metalized a while back.
The key to clearcoating the Alclad is that the gloss Clear be "thined" an addtional 15% to 20%. Too thick and the metalzing effect will be lost.
Gappleg, you worked on the prototype Metros?????? Man! I wish I knew you then. Did you take any photos? If so, please post them.
chutton01 Hmm, smooth black undercoat - what was the pressure you sprayed the Scalecoat II black at (also, did you thin or not). Just asking, as I brought some scalecoat gloss black & some Alclad, gonna paint a few things, and I'd like to get it right the first time, so let us learn from your mistake. (Don't fee bad, I've spazzed out plenty of times in the paint & finish section of a project - that's why I'd like to learn)
Hello Chutton,
originally I thinned the Scale Coat at the recommended 1/3 thinner to 2/3 paint. I didn't like the results as two of the shells looked rough. The Scale Coat was stubborn to strip off, so instead I wet sanded the shells with 3M 600 grit. I discovered, as David mentions above, that the 50/50 ration mix works very well. The paint lays on smoothly at 20 to 25 psi with a fine or medium needle/aircap combo. Just before I paint models, I always perform a test on scrap plastic or masking paper. I won't spray the models until I like what I see on the test.
Very nice! It looks like it's actually made from a high grade stainless steel. A lot better than chrome plating. Almost makes me want to go and buy a bunch of Budd stuff so I can do that.
AntonioFP45 wrote:These are "long-out-of-production" Bachmann Amtrak Metroliners that I bought new in a set back in the early 1990s. I won 3 more in ebay within the past 2 years. They were used but in very good shape. To be blunt, the drive in the powered car is junk. But the body shells and underframe detailing look decent when compared to the prototype photos.
I'm guessing you've got the later single powered truck drive in yours. How do you plan on repowering it so it will run as good as it looks?
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Darth, you're correct. The 1990s set powered car had the cheesy truck motor. I've been planning on using the "Bull Ant" truck motor suggested by Mark Newton. However, one of the other units that I won recently on ebay has a can motor and gear drive. I don't know if it's factory or if the previous owner installed it. The gears are not "splining" properly and there's a lot of slippage. I'm going to ask a friend look at it and see if he thinks it can be spruced up with Mashima and NWSL components. I certainly would like smooth, quiet running.
I want to install DCC sound and would like to take a few liberties with the horn sound. Instead of the Leslie S2-L horn that the prototypes used, I'd like to have the more pleasant sounding Leslie S3K instead. The high pitched S2L is too annoying for my ears!
Here's a couple of shots I was able to take outdoors.
Antonio,
Wow! Those look fantastic!
After seeing those pics, now I really want to get going on my Santa Fe F-units.
A question, though...how easy/difficult is it to mask Alclad? I'm going to need to do a bit of masking on mine, and I'm slightly worried about how fragile the paint is. Does the clearcoat strengthen it enough to mask?
I can't wait to see those Metroliners finished!
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
I'm not sure what you meant by the prototypes. We re-built the Metros in Erie in the mid-seventies and upgraded almost everything in them. Hence we had to tear them apart and add new components. Like I said we had fun re-testing them before shipping them back out.
At that time in Erie we were building transit cars , built hundreds of Septa cars for New Jersey.
DingySP,
Alclad produces their own brand of gloss black that they recommend using.
I have heard some very good things about Tamiya as a good, tough paint that works well under Alclad. I would consider using it, however, I now have 4 bottles of Scale Coat II gloss black so it may be a while before I experiment with other black bases. I do hope that some of you guys that want to metalize will consider experimenting with different brands of base colors and post your results.
Arjay,
Thank you. The gloss clear coat is a big plus for protection. Once the clear is has thoroughly cured, you can mask it off as you would Polyscale, Floquil, or Testors painted surfaces that are cured. To play it safe, I now prefer to wait at least 3 days before I mask off for other colors.
Note: I recently received an email from Alclad rep, Mr. Tony Hipp. He recommends waiting 2-3 weeks to allow the metalizer to "toughen up" before applying solvent based clear coats. So far, I've had good results with the acrylic clears, though based on Mr. Hipp's comments via a recent email, I'll now wait at least a week instead of 2 or 3 days before applying the Polly Scale or Modelflex gloss clear. Again, the key to applying clear is to spray it on "Thin" so as to not greatly dull down the metalized appearance. Instead of increasing air pressure, I increase my stroke speed slightly to put it on wet and not get runs. I keep an old Bachmann boxcar shell handy to test my clears on first.
Future Floor Finish works well and leaves a tough finish. It doesn't have to be thinned. However, it can gum up your airbrush quickly if you wait to long between coats. Once a modeler finishes airbrushing with Future, it's important that the airbrush be flushed out and cleaned up right away.
GAPPLEG wrote:I'm not sure what you meant by the prototypes. We re-built the Metros in Erie in the mid-seventies and upgraded almost everything in them. Hence we had to tear them apart and add new components. Like I said we had fun re-testing them before shipping them back out.
Gappleg,
Prototypes, You know...........the real things! 1 to 1 scale! You got to see the ones that still had the Penn Central markings on them that Amtrak had not yet repainted. That's why I was hoping that you took some photos then. You participated in some cool history.
AntonioFP45 wrote:I do hope that some of you guys that want to metalize will consider experimenting with different brands of base colors and post your results.
I do hope that some of you guys that want to metalize will consider experimenting with different brands of base colors and post your results.
I went ahead and ordered the black base coat from Alclad...I'll give that a try on something scrap-worthy first. If that doesn't work, I'll try something else and see what happens.
Arjay,Thank you. The gloss clear coat is a big plus for protection. Once the clear is has thoroughly cured, you can mask it off as you would Polyscale, Floquil, or Testors painted surfaces that are cured. To play it safe, I now prefer to wait at least 3 days before I mask off for other colors. Note: I recently received an email from Alclad rep, Mr. Tony Hipp. He recommends waiting 2-3 weeks to allow the metalizer to "toughen up" before applying solvent based clear coats. So far, I've had good results with the acrylic clears, though based on Mr. Hipp's comments via a recent email, I'll now wait at least a week instead of 2 or 3 days before applying the Polly Scale or Modelflex gloss clear. Again, the key to applying clear is to spray it on "Thin". Instead of increasing air pressure, I increase my stroke speed slightly to put it on wet and not get runs. I keep an old Bachmann boxcar shell handy to test my clears on first.
Note: I recently received an email from Alclad rep, Mr. Tony Hipp. He recommends waiting 2-3 weeks to allow the metalizer to "toughen up" before applying solvent based clear coats. So far, I've had good results with the acrylic clears, though based on Mr. Hipp's comments via a recent email, I'll now wait at least a week instead of 2 or 3 days before applying the Polly Scale or Modelflex gloss clear. Again, the key to applying clear is to spray it on "Thin". Instead of increasing air pressure, I increase my stroke speed slightly to put it on wet and not get runs. I keep an old Bachmann boxcar shell handy to test my clears on first.
Ah, excellent information. Thanks, Antonio.
This is another thread to be printed out.
Ultra cool! I know you worked hard but found time to have fun too! You remind me of my time at the transit authority shop I worked in for 15 years.
Do you remember what color the seats on the PC schemed Metros were before you removed them? I know that the Metro Club/Lounges had orange seats ( I have a photo), but what about the coaches?
Yes, I remember that wild Amtrak scheme with the color fades on the front of the cabs. That was pretty creative and a nice variety from the first Amtrak scheme.
Hey Antonio,
Incredible job on the Metroliners. Between, the E-33s E60CPs, and now your showing off your metros, the urge to do a couple of modules depicting the North East Corridor is growing stronger.
James
AntonioFP45 wrote: Gappleg,Ultra cool! I know you worked hard but found time to have fun too! You remind me of my time at the transit authority shop I worked in for 15 years.Do you remember what color the seats on the PC schemed Metros were before you removed them? I know that the Metro Club/Lounges had orange seats ( I have a photo), but what about the coaches?Yes, I remember that wild Amtrak scheme with the color fades on the front of the cabs. That was pretty creative and a nice variety from the first Amtrak scheme.
Antonio , I'm lucky just to remember yesterday, but funny I do remember the new seats were an orange like color , in all of them. Don't remember the old seats at all, they would have been torn out way up the line, I would have never seen them. The building we did the work in ( Bldg. 12) is about 200 yards long , we had multiple lines coming down for assembly, then when the got to the test dept we had three tracks for testing , 1 was an enviromental chamber where we could run the temp up to 120% or down to 20 below to check out the heating\cooling equipment. We had a mobile mainframe type computer ( boy is that old tech now) it weighed a ton took two of us to push it around. programmed with paper tape input. We used that to test circuitry before actually power up. I now realize I could write a book. By the way I just retired after 38 years at GE.
You should write a book, Jerry.
Antonio, those Metros are way cool. I think I can see my reflection. The first coat looks like a graphite or pewter finish... I kinda like it.
I rode in those cars behind a GG1 more than once. I think the upholstery was orange, and I was in a deluxe Metroliner coach once that had deep red or burgundy upholstery. Boy, was that car smooth and quiet.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Thanks, SteamFreak.
I had not considered it, but since you mentioned it the 1st coat does remind me of the pewter fiishes I've seen on a number of Franklin Mint collectible miniatures. Applying the 2nd coat is usually where I start to smile
I'll continue to experiment with this product. I've got 3 more Bachmann Amtrak Metros to paint strip and then metalize. I hope to get smoother results with them.
Notice how on the prototype photo (by Kim Piersol) the stainless steel has a "blueish hue". Just my opinion, but even though worn, the stainless steel here is reflecting the blue sky. What do you guys think?
I was talking to a friend yesterday about the dilemma of using photos as a reference for paint finishes. Factors such as the surrounding environment, the type and/or brand of photo film, the camera's settings, lighting, quality, etc., can sometimes drive a modeler nuts trying to capture that "close to prototype" appearance.
AntonioFP45 wrote: I was talking to a friend yesterday about the dilemma of using photos as a reference for paint finishes. Factors such as the surrounding environment, the type and/or brand of photo film, the camera's settings, lighting, quality, etc., can sometimes drive a modeler nuts trying to capture that "close to prototype" appearance.
I was talking to the Bowser rep at the Springfield MA show last January, and he made a similar comment. They had done a big run of MEC covered hoppers in a color that was a little darker than Floquil Reefer Gray, while the prototype was a light gray. He said the photo they used as a reference looked the dark gray color. Even the pros can get caught out! I bought a few of them last year, but I am not going to strip and repaint them.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Yep, can be a headache. Glad you mentioned this as you reminded me of something. Alclad's rep, Tony Hipp, wrote me before that he's been trying to market the Alclad metalizers to model railroaders. The problem? Too many disagreements among the modelers giving input as to what color should be used on streamliners. Suggestions have included white aluminum and dark aluminum. Photos, film or digital, can indeed be a blessing or a brain twister.
I'm going to continue experimenting, but imho, the key is to stick with the Alclad II Chrome, and alter the base (black, charcoal grey, medium grey, etc.) to get the desired sheen appearance.
Yeah, does look like a blue tint.
What are you going to do with these beauties once you finish?
Antonio, I was just thinking. Since I live in Topeka where the BNSF stores and maintains their business car fleets. I have had the oportunity in noticing that there are differences in the color of fluting between Budd, PSCM and ACF cars. Budds tend to have a bluish tint while Pullmans have a gray tint and ACF has a white tint. So gloss black would work great for Budds and Dark gray would work great for Pullmans and a medium gray would work great for ACF cars. Pullman cars tend to dull and annodize rather rapidly while Budds and ACFs tend to dull and annodize much slower. HTH
Charlie.
TrainmanTy,
Thanks. Once I finish the painting and weathering the units, I'd like to run them at a model railroad club I belonged to before (I plan on rejoining). I'm hoping to help spark up more interest in metalizing passenger cars, especially since the process is much easier now than it has been in the past.
Charlie,
Thanks for your info! That's exactly the type of input that we need. I have noticed that in photos of various ACF streamliners, the bodies tend to have a "whitish" hue to them.
I will be doing some more metalizing jobs, hopefully, within the next couple of weeks as my work and family time permits.
Really cool pictures. you did a very good job. That metal looking finish is the bomb-diggity as my kids and grandkids would say. You-da-man!!!!!!!!!!!!
One question, how does the Alcald II clean up afterwards in the air brush.
Thanks....
Thank you Gene.
The consistency of the Alclad Metalizer's are thin, so clean up is very easy with lacquer thinner. I flush with either Scale Coat II, Floquil, or automotive lacquer thinners. I stay away from mineral spirits.