Poll #2 Pros & Cons

[Anonymous]

I voted for #1 cause it isn't good for the hobby. But if people are truly interested, they won't let a few local nuts disuade them.

A couple people in the local club, look down upon your $35 Athearn diesel?
try another club.
Local hobby store clerks have a rude and offensive demeanor?
shop elsewhere.

But I think another problem is poor quality. Not just the problem of cut corners in entry-level trains. But across the board, because even if one company produces a pretty bad model of -something nice but not a guarenteed cash cow- other companies who were interested in trying their hand at it, may not try at all, since they'd still have to compete with that model, even if the one they offer is much better. But that problem isn't unique to model railroading by far.

It seems that model railroading is definetely getting expensive, as it becomes more sophisticated. I personally don't care as much about sound and DCC. And I'd rather have the option of not having to buy a locomotive with them, and save some money.

Alvie.

[railman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by railman

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

Read juby4life's story about the guy who smashed his Rock Island SD90MAC because RI never had 90MACs. That's why I picked #1.

After what's been said here, I tried finding it on the forums...no success. Does someone have a link, or can tell the tale? Thanks. For a Milwaukee Road modeler that likes to wonder "What if?" with new units, this sounds scary.

Here it is Ron, almost a year old. Francicso hasn't found it yet. [swg]

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8583

Thanks, Big Boy 4005. The man in the story, who would smash a expensive engine over Rock Island paint is a terrible human being.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: The question is directly related to rivet counters and the clickish attitudes of so many clubs in this country, that we have seen talked about on this forum in the past.

As far as being a rivet-counter goes, I'll count rivets on my own work (and literally have!), but I won't do it to someone else's, because my own work has fallen short of my personal level of "attainable perfection", but high enough that I'm satisfied with it. In other words, I tried to get the correct number of rivets onto a piece, missed by one, and said "oh well, it's not worth doing over for one rivet".

As for clubs, I was in a club 10 years ago. I was assigned to build a mountain in one corner of the layout. I spent about 9 days building the mountain, and it was beautiful. I came in the next week and it had been ripped out by the roots. The scenery committee decided they didn't want one there after all Ten years later, there's still nothing there. I don't even know who was responsible for the decision, nor do I care. I'm a lone wolf and happy to be that way. I can work at my pace to my own standard of perfection with no one to satisfy but myself.

[Anonymous]

Quote from dragenrider:

Ten dollars for a set of six plastic figures?

$29.00 for a RTR box car?

$2.50 for a single piece of flex track?

$75.00 for a railroad book?

$29.00? Seems like all the ones I see in the ads are 40 and up! Compared to seven or eight for a cheaper kit plus and extra four or five for the details that make the high-end car noticeabley different.

$2.50 for flex track? The cheapest I've EVER seen it was Atlas flextrack for $3.15.

I guess scratchbuilding isn't as irrelevant as the industry might suppose...

[rogerhensley]

You forgot 'All of the Above'
More than one item would qualify as 'Wrong'.

[CBQ_Guy]

RTR, prices, AND Limited editions.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railman

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

Read juby4life's story about the guy who smashed his Rock Island SD90MAC because RI never had 90MACs. That's why I picked #1.

After what's been said here, I tried finding it on the forums...no success. Does someone have a link, or can tell the tale? Thanks. For a Milwaukee Road modeler that likes to wonder "What if?" with new units, this sounds scary.

Here it is Ron, almost a year old. Francicso hasn't found it yet. [swg]

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8583

[darth9x9]

The biggest problem is that the average age of model railroaders is getting higher each year. More needs to be done to bring in MORE of the younger crowd.

[CP5415]

I would have to say a lot of things are wrong within this hobby today.
The first one is definatly price. I will miss buying a BB Athearn SD40-2 for $50 CAN.
I still can't see spending $50 on a freight car just because it's got separate grab handles on it.
The Second is attitude.
I had someone say to me in these very forums that because I was doing something the way I wanted to do it, that it was wrong, even though it worked for me.
That left me shaking my head wondering if I should continue being an active participant in these forums.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

I would like it if prices were a little cheaper, but as I said before, It makes me work harder to earn money which makes the enjoyment better. I think the people is one thing that needs help. very few adults I meet at trainshows and hobby shops taker me sierously.

[fec153]

I voted prices. However, attitudes of some club members is a real turn-off.
The people on this forum, are the nicest ,most helpful group of people I have been
fortunate to meet with the exception of what is known as the 1per centers.[2c].
Fla.Phil

[railman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

Read juby4life's story about the guy who smashed his Rock Island SD90MAC because RI never had 90MACs. That's why I picked #1.

After what's been said here, I tried finding it on the forums...no success. Does someone have a link, or can tell the tale? Thanks. For a Milwaukee Road modeler that likes to wonder "What if?" with new units, this sounds scary.

[Anonymous]

As a relative newcomer (1 year in the hobby) I would have to say a combination of things. Attitude is part of the problem. Just because some guy doesn't have $600 to spend on a BLI loco is no reason to say his choice of a Bachmann Plus or Walthers Trainline is "junk". We all buy what we can afford, and the people with less funds available should be made to feel as welcome as anyone else. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not keeping up with the Jones's. Do you get insulted by the people that drive Cadillacs because you drive a Chevy? I don't think so. Also, some of the prices are a bit steep. The disparity between lines is what gets me, particularly with track. How can one piece cost $1.19 and another one cost $6.99? Too wide a gap. I would think anyone that wants to get into model railroading would be a welcome addition, no matter how much money he (or she) has. We should all be welcoming ANYONE into the hobby and offering assistance and advice that fits the need of the individual, not ours. Unfortunately, I haven't been involved long enough to be able to offer much in the way of help, but someday, hopefully, I will.

[Anonymous]

There are too many polls!

[on30francisco]

I believe some people's bad attitudes - cliquish clubs and hobby shops, rivet counters, freelance vs prototype modelers, age discrimination and profiling, model my way or the highway types - are determental to this hobby and alienate both newcomers and many seasoned modelers. It's also these attidudes that make a lot of modelers prefer to be lone wolves.

While some prices are high, there are many things you can do to stretch your hobby dollars; purchase fewer locomotives and RTR (especially limited editions), build kits, scratchbuild, buy used, shop at discount houses for bulk and pricey items, check out arts & crafts stores for wood, styrene, glues, paints etc. There are also a lot of household items and discards that can be used in building models; and the cost -free!

[CBQ_Guy]

2,3, and 4.

Thank you for asking.

[dragenrider]

I voted on prices. Over the last two years I've turned away from many, many purchases because the item was just a couple dollars over what I was willing to spend. I'm a tight wad so I only buy what I reallly need for my layout. But now I'm finding myself putting off buying even desired items because of the distasteful prices. [:(]

Ten dollars for a set of six plastic figures?

$29.00 for a RTR box car?

$2.50 for a single piece of flex track?

$75.00 for a railroad book?

Come on, now! I know prices go up, but we are pricing ourselves out the hobby!
[2c][2c][2c][2c][2c]

[Anonymous]

I have to say price.......I'm glad I did the majority of my purchasing a few years back. Limited editions are b.s., That's why I paint my own.

[vsmith]

Bad attitudes that push newcomers away.

[Anonymous]

Price increases I accept with ease--it's no different for the hobby than anything else we pay for. I'm concerned for teens who have limited sources of income however, as they constitute a new generation of supporters of the hobby. Pricing them out of the market would be a shame. People within the hobby can be !?@@#??&!!!*% (they know who they are) but I try not to let them get to me. I'm having too much fun![:D] Additionally, the quality of many products has improved tremendously over time. This is probably one of the best times to be involved in model railroading.

[Anonymous]

I'd say limited editions and the discontinuing of someitems are the main problem. I guess the manufacturers feel that everyone who wants item X already has one, but what about new modellers? Certain types of freight car are now very poorly represented - intermodals in particular. Walthers have discontinued their Spine car, the Athearn 5-unit double stack will now only be available RTR at a massive price hike (has gone from £30 to over £70). The same goes for their single-car double stacks, though admittedly these now come with containers.

[Hawks05]

prices are getting a little up there for me. if some of you remember when i first started i was talking about buying all this stuff and getting a lot on ebay and always buying. well i haven't gotten anything since probably the 2nd of January. there are 2 shows up coming here the 31st and 7th. i have the ACT test on the 7th so i doubt i'll go to that. but i'll be going to the one of the 31st. like usual i'll probably bring $100 or so with me to buy stuff then wait again until a show or i go to the LHS.

[ClinchValleySD40]

Absolutely nothing. The hobby gets better all the time.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brothaslide

The scrapbook hobby group has us model railroad folks beat by a mile! My wife is a scrapbooker and that hobby is growing so much faster than model railroading. I think the big difference is that scrapbooking is more social and people in that hobby actively look to include others and make them feel welcome. Please don't take this as an insult but I think many of us model railroaders need to get out of our selves and stop being these introverted engineer types (I do have a BS in Mechanical Engineering - it takes one to know one.)

Additionally, scrapbooking online resources blow away any model railroad site in content and participation. Just visit www.twopeasinabucket.com and look at their message board posts or their image gallery.

The local scrapbook stores have what are called Friday Night Crops where a number of people get to gether to scrapbook. Additonally, these Friday night sessions include classes on technique and style. My LHS has never to my knowledge ever held a class or a group get together to build trains, etc.

I think it is time for an attitude change and a paradigim shift in our hobby.

Sean

I couldn't agree more. More and more, we're seeing in clubs especially, the trend toward clickish behavior, the inner circle if you will. This tends to isolate people, even within a club, and eventually compounds even the smallest problem by bring to bear the politics that result from such behavior patterns. You really can't have a cooperative club enviroment, if politics is always getting in the way. Am I right or am I wrong?

[brothaslide]

The scrapbook hobby group has us model railroad folks beat by a mile! My wife is a scrapbooker and that hobby is growing so much faster than model railroading. I think the big difference is that scrapbooking is more social and people in that hobby actively look to include others and make them feel welcome. Please don't take this as an insult but I think many of us model railroaders need to get out of our selves and stop being these introverted engineer types (I do have a BS in Mechanical Engineering - it takes one to know one.)

Additionally, scrapbooking online resources blow away any model railroad site in content and participation. Just visit www.twopeasinabucket.com and look at their message board posts or their image gallery.

The local scrapbook stores have what are called Friday Night Crops where a number of people get to gether to scrapbook. Additonally, these Friday night sessions include classes on technique and style. My LHS has never to my knowledge ever held a class or a group get together to build trains, etc.

I think it is time for an attitude change and a paradigim shift in our hobby.

Sean

[michaelstevens]

[8D]
I voted for "Nothing in my opinion".

Yeah -- there's arrogance, rudeness, intolerance, prejudice, bigotry etc. -- those are all common and regrettable human characteristics.

Its just that, I think today (MLK's official birthday) is an appropriate occasion to have an optimistic frame of mind !!

[:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Dougal, that was one of the first things I read when I started here on the forum, and frankly I was appalled. Personally I find Juby's style novel, creative and refreshing. But, the problem is not with people in this hobby, it is bigger and deeper than that.

The problem is intolerance of others, and if you look you can find examples of it everywhere. Actually that is a trick question, because if you complain about clubs and individuals, then you show your own intolerance for them. However, what happened to Juby, went way beyond intolerance, and crossed over into criminal, litterally.

I say there is nothing wrong with this hobby, and we should not be put off by the bad additude and behavior of a few people.

The question is directly related to rivet counters and the clickish attitudes of so many clubs in this country, that we have seen talked about on this forum in the past. It's arrogant, rude, and totally destructive to the hobby as a whole. We're not talking about a specific individual, but rather a profile or attitude of a specific group of individuals who would rather have the hobby to themselves, than to tolerate anyone, who for what ever reason, doesn't measure up to their personal standard.

[Anonymous]

I voted for price.

While I agree that the extra detail does have its share of costs involved. I feel that manufacturors need to start paying attention to making avialable a selection of cars and or kits that are priced for the beginning modeler. Im looking at hobby prices and am balking at their obsurd cost. Athearn was charging. (Until what I predict to be the beginning of what will be its ultimate demise) $13.00 for an assembled version of a box car that not 2 years ago was a $5.00 kit. Model Die casting seems to be a ready substitue. But I feel It needs to get on the PR bandwagon and promote a new and vibrant and dare I say "Hip" image. As it has the image I percieve of being an old man of the hobby staying his course not willing to change much. Accurail's cars are compribly priced to MDC and could also help vill the vacume left by Athearn.

[Anonymous]

People, and most of them can be fixed with a little education.
Non-hobbyists can be shown the light[angel]
Rivetcounters can be shown the door![:-,]
Doh! There I go now ![}:)]
Cant we all just get along??[%-)]