Poll #2 Pros & Cons

[Anonymous]

Please proceed to the third poll after this one.

[Anonymous]

I presume you mean "limited editions" of releases. I find that very few fallen flags are available any longer. It's hard to find that B & O caboose, or maybe, trying to find a model that is exactly the way the road would have had it.

I have a Kato SD80MAC in NS colors and it's beautiful. Imagine what it would look lie if it were an RTR, but seriously, more roads, more selections, and more of the older freight cars. (Who needs autoracks or covered hoppers?)

[AggroJones]

I very much dislike this "limited run" stuff. Its like either "buy it now" or "can't get one at all". This aspect of the hobby sucks. Production of an item should be enough to fill all pre-orders and then a bunch more so their can be some available for people to get later. It should not be "some people pre-order, wait several months, then get theirs". Railroaders might change their minds after they see how good the product is.

Also, prices. The prices are going through the roof. Manufatures need to have more products aimed a people with less money. All steam locomotive makers should follow Bachmann Spectrums example. Produce more of the product and sell them more a little less. It balances out.

[Anonymous]

Read juby4life's story about the guy who smashed his Rock Island SD90MAC because RI never had 90MACs. That's why I picked #1.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

Read juby4life's story about the guy who smashed his Rock Island SD90MAC because RI never had 90MACs. That's why I picked #1.

I have, and believe me when I say, I would be hard put to think of anything more arrogant or destructive to the hobby.

[Anonymous]

I don't think there is really anything wrong with this hobby. The product that is available in all price ranges and detail levels is so much better than what was available 20 yrs ago it's amazing. I think the hobby has grown in leaps and bounds.

As with anything in life, there are some bad apples. Sucks to be them. That's not a flaw in the hobby but in the individual.

As for prices, they have gone up considerably, but so has the detail and quality. I hardly ever buy anything "new" anyway so it really doesn't bother me personally too much. It makes little difference if something is new or used when you are just gonna mod it, weather it, et. al. anyway.

As far as RTR, I don't use much of it but I see the point of it. If it helps bring people into the hobby, that benefits the hobby as a whole in the long run. More buyers means more products available in all categories.

I've not found limited runs to be a very big issue with me either. I've yet to run into an item that I really wanted that I couldn't find. EBay and the web in general can be exceptionally helpful with this. Whatever it is, It will show up eventually.

Warren

[Big_Boy_4005]

Dougal, that was one of the first things I read when I started here on the forum, and frankly I was appalled. Personally I find Juby's style novel, creative and refreshing. But, the problem is not with people in this hobby, it is bigger and deeper than that.

The problem is intolerance of others, and if you look you can find examples of it everywhere. Actually that is a trick question, because if you complain about clubs and individuals, then you show your own intolerance for them. However, what happened to Juby, went way beyond intolerance, and crossed over into criminal, litterally.

I say there is nothing wrong with this hobby, and we should not be put off by the bad additude and behavior of a few people.

[RhB_HJ]

Hey crowd,

Isn't it a fact that there's more product available than ever before?

Isn't it a fact that the "stuff" is less expensive than ever before?

Isn't it a fact that the hobby has advanced by leaps and bounds in many respects?

Isn't it................................

Well you get the idea!

[Mikeygaw]

Peoples Attitudes, clubs, critics, etc, Prices, Limited additions are the main problems in my opinion. RTR is goes both ways, but i wont go into that now. As for the attitudes, seems that if it's not done their way, it's not acceptable to them. The prices are rather high and could be cut down atleast by 25% in my opinion if the producing companies and certain railroad companies were so greedy. The limited additions are just another reason to raise prices and make money.

[Anonymous]

I voted for prices but if i could have i would vote for the first three.

[CP5415]

Attitudes are my pet peeve.
Who cares if "X" railroad didn't have a certain type of locomotive!
This is a hobby! It's suppose to be fun & full of different ideas.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

People, and most of them can be fixed with a little education.
Non-hobbyists can be shown the light[angel]
Rivetcounters can be shown the door![:-,]
Doh! There I go now ![}:)]
Cant we all just get along??[%-)]

[Anonymous]

I voted for price.

While I agree that the extra detail does have its share of costs involved. I feel that manufacturors need to start paying attention to making avialable a selection of cars and or kits that are priced for the beginning modeler. Im looking at hobby prices and am balking at their obsurd cost. Athearn was charging. (Until what I predict to be the beginning of what will be its ultimate demise) $13.00 for an assembled version of a box car that not 2 years ago was a $5.00 kit. Model Die casting seems to be a ready substitue. But I feel It needs to get on the PR bandwagon and promote a new and vibrant and dare I say "Hip" image. As it has the image I percieve of being an old man of the hobby staying his course not willing to change much. Accurail's cars are compribly priced to MDC and could also help vill the vacume left by Athearn.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Dougal, that was one of the first things I read when I started here on the forum, and frankly I was appalled. Personally I find Juby's style novel, creative and refreshing. But, the problem is not with people in this hobby, it is bigger and deeper than that.

The problem is intolerance of others, and if you look you can find examples of it everywhere. Actually that is a trick question, because if you complain about clubs and individuals, then you show your own intolerance for them. However, what happened to Juby, went way beyond intolerance, and crossed over into criminal, litterally.

I say there is nothing wrong with this hobby, and we should not be put off by the bad additude and behavior of a few people.

The question is directly related to rivet counters and the clickish attitudes of so many clubs in this country, that we have seen talked about on this forum in the past. It's arrogant, rude, and totally destructive to the hobby as a whole. We're not talking about a specific individual, but rather a profile or attitude of a specific group of individuals who would rather have the hobby to themselves, than to tolerate anyone, who for what ever reason, doesn't measure up to their personal standard.

[michaelstevens]

[8D]
I voted for "Nothing in my opinion".

Yeah -- there's arrogance, rudeness, intolerance, prejudice, bigotry etc. -- those are all common and regrettable human characteristics.

Its just that, I think today (MLK's official birthday) is an appropriate occasion to have an optimistic frame of mind !!

[:D][:D]

[brothaslide]

The scrapbook hobby group has us model railroad folks beat by a mile! My wife is a scrapbooker and that hobby is growing so much faster than model railroading. I think the big difference is that scrapbooking is more social and people in that hobby actively look to include others and make them feel welcome. Please don't take this as an insult but I think many of us model railroaders need to get out of our selves and stop being these introverted engineer types (I do have a BS in Mechanical Engineering - it takes one to know one.)

Additionally, scrapbooking online resources blow away any model railroad site in content and participation. Just visit www.twopeasinabucket.com and look at their message board posts or their image gallery.

The local scrapbook stores have what are called Friday Night Crops where a number of people get to gether to scrapbook. Additonally, these Friday night sessions include classes on technique and style. My LHS has never to my knowledge ever held a class or a group get together to build trains, etc.

I think it is time for an attitude change and a paradigim shift in our hobby.

Sean

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brothaslide

The scrapbook hobby group has us model railroad folks beat by a mile! My wife is a scrapbooker and that hobby is growing so much faster than model railroading. I think the big difference is that scrapbooking is more social and people in that hobby actively look to include others and make them feel welcome. Please don't take this as an insult but I think many of us model railroaders need to get out of our selves and stop being these introverted engineer types (I do have a BS in Mechanical Engineering - it takes one to know one.)

Additionally, scrapbooking online resources blow away any model railroad site in content and participation. Just visit www.twopeasinabucket.com and look at their message board posts or their image gallery.

The local scrapbook stores have what are called Friday Night Crops where a number of people get to gether to scrapbook. Additonally, these Friday night sessions include classes on technique and style. My LHS has never to my knowledge ever held a class or a group get together to build trains, etc.

I think it is time for an attitude change and a paradigim shift in our hobby.

Sean

I couldn't agree more. More and more, we're seeing in clubs especially, the trend toward clickish behavior, the inner circle if you will. This tends to isolate people, even within a club, and eventually compounds even the smallest problem by bring to bear the politics that result from such behavior patterns. You really can't have a cooperative club enviroment, if politics is always getting in the way. Am I right or am I wrong?

[ClinchValleySD40]

Absolutely nothing. The hobby gets better all the time.

[Hawks05]

prices are getting a little up there for me. if some of you remember when i first started i was talking about buying all this stuff and getting a lot on ebay and always buying. well i haven't gotten anything since probably the 2nd of January. there are 2 shows up coming here the 31st and 7th. i have the ACT test on the 7th so i doubt i'll go to that. but i'll be going to the one of the 31st. like usual i'll probably bring $100 or so with me to buy stuff then wait again until a show or i go to the LHS.

[Anonymous]

I'd say limited editions and the discontinuing of someitems are the main problem. I guess the manufacturers feel that everyone who wants item X already has one, but what about new modellers? Certain types of freight car are now very poorly represented - intermodals in particular. Walthers have discontinued their Spine car, the Athearn 5-unit double stack will now only be available RTR at a massive price hike (has gone from £30 to over £70). The same goes for their single-car double stacks, though admittedly these now come with containers.

[Anonymous]

Price increases I accept with ease--it's no different for the hobby than anything else we pay for. I'm concerned for teens who have limited sources of income however, as they constitute a new generation of supporters of the hobby. Pricing them out of the market would be a shame. People within the hobby can be !?@@#??&!!!*% (they know who they are) but I try not to let them get to me. I'm having too much fun![:D] Additionally, the quality of many products has improved tremendously over time. This is probably one of the best times to be involved in model railroading.

[vsmith]

Bad attitudes that push newcomers away.

[Anonymous]

I have to say price.......I'm glad I did the majority of my purchasing a few years back. Limited editions are b.s., That's why I paint my own.

[dragenrider]

I voted on prices. Over the last two years I've turned away from many, many purchases because the item was just a couple dollars over what I was willing to spend. I'm a tight wad so I only buy what I reallly need for my layout. But now I'm finding myself putting off buying even desired items because of the distasteful prices. [:(]

Ten dollars for a set of six plastic figures?

$29.00 for a RTR box car?

$2.50 for a single piece of flex track?

$75.00 for a railroad book?

Come on, now! I know prices go up, but we are pricing ourselves out the hobby!
[2c][2c][2c][2c][2c]

[CBQ_Guy]

2,3, and 4.

Thank you for asking.

[on30francisco]

I believe some people's bad attitudes - cliquish clubs and hobby shops, rivet counters, freelance vs prototype modelers, age discrimination and profiling, model my way or the highway types - are determental to this hobby and alienate both newcomers and many seasoned modelers. It's also these attidudes that make a lot of modelers prefer to be lone wolves.

While some prices are high, there are many things you can do to stretch your hobby dollars; purchase fewer locomotives and RTR (especially limited editions), build kits, scratchbuild, buy used, shop at discount houses for bulk and pricey items, check out arts & crafts stores for wood, styrene, glues, paints etc. There are also a lot of household items and discards that can be used in building models; and the cost -free!

[Anonymous]

There are too many polls!

[Anonymous]

As a relative newcomer (1 year in the hobby) I would have to say a combination of things. Attitude is part of the problem. Just because some guy doesn't have $600 to spend on a BLI loco is no reason to say his choice of a Bachmann Plus or Walthers Trainline is "junk". We all buy what we can afford, and the people with less funds available should be made to feel as welcome as anyone else. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not keeping up with the Jones's. Do you get insulted by the people that drive Cadillacs because you drive a Chevy? I don't think so. Also, some of the prices are a bit steep. The disparity between lines is what gets me, particularly with track. How can one piece cost $1.19 and another one cost $6.99? Too wide a gap. I would think anyone that wants to get into model railroading would be a welcome addition, no matter how much money he (or she) has. We should all be welcoming ANYONE into the hobby and offering assistance and advice that fits the need of the individual, not ours. Unfortunately, I haven't been involved long enough to be able to offer much in the way of help, but someday, hopefully, I will.

[railman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

Read juby4life's story about the guy who smashed his Rock Island SD90MAC because RI never had 90MACs. That's why I picked #1.

After what's been said here, I tried finding it on the forums...no success. Does someone have a link, or can tell the tale? Thanks. For a Milwaukee Road modeler that likes to wonder "What if?" with new units, this sounds scary.

[fec153]

I voted prices. However, attitudes of some club members is a real turn-off.
The people on this forum, are the nicest ,most helpful group of people I have been
fortunate to meet with the exception of what is known as the 1per centers.[2c].
Fla.Phil