NMRA Membership - wow!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by potlatcher

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan

The winning technology sets the standard and others follow.

Instead I would offer the example of knuckle couplers. Kadee answered the weak NMRA standard "horn-hook" coupler with a better design and product. The market (us modelers) recognized the superiority of Kadee's products, and virtually nullifyied the NMRA standard. And, when Kadee's patent rights ran out, suddenly every manufacturer was either making them or applying the knock-offs to their models. Sure, there are sometimes minor incompatibilities between brands, but they can be dealt with pretty easily. My point is that the market can be just as strong a force for standards than the NMRA.

For your information there is no NMRA Coupler, the X2F design which you are talking about was never ratified by the membership as the NMRA approved coupler. The manufacturers selected that design as what they would put on their cars. Most modelers selected Kadee but some such as John Allen used Baker Couplers.

The NMRA is making a mistake by not having a beginning membership through divisions. When I belonged to Division 1 in the North Central Region you did not have to belong to the NMRA but many new people learned a lot from the meetings etc. One of the Divisions where I live now will not let you join the Division without being an NMRA member, I think this is a big mistake.

[Anonymous]

As a non-member, I'm wondering what the NMRA is doing to attract new members? I participate on a number of RR forums including this one & don't recall an NMRA official responding to any threads in a manner that would promote their resources & organization.

It would seem that an organization the size of the NMRA, especially one whose membership seems to be either dying off or jumping ship, would monitor the venues where their potential replacement members hang out. It would seem that an occasional reply to a typical "How do I...? question with a "The NMRA website has an article describing how to...." response would be both helpful and a simple & free promotion of their organization.

Wayne

[rogerhensley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek

It would seem that an occasional reply to a typical "How do I...? question with a "The NMRA website has an article describing how to...." response would be both helpful and a simple & free promotion of their organization.

Then you haven't been paying attention, Wayne. I have been doing exactly that. I just have never seen any reason to tell you that I am the NMRA Webmaster. It shouldn't matter.

[jfugate]

One of the biggest bennie's for me of the NMRA is the annual National Convention and Train Show.

That's a great week-long event of total immersion into model railroading and anything trains. I'm usually so pumped after going that I can run for about 6 months on the energy and ideas I get from attending the National Convention and Train Show.

I can't afford to go every year (need to spend *some* money on the layout now and then) but the convention travels around and when it's within a day or so's driving distance I'll usually attend.

That's one big item I appreciate about the NMRA, and a significant reason I'm a member.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rogerhensley

Then you haven't been paying attention, Wayne. I have been doing exactly that. I just have never seen any reason to tell you that I am the NMRA Webmaster. It shouldn't matter.

I never made the connection, Roger. As I said in an earlier post, the NMRA website has a wealth of information and it's good to know the resident webmaster is hanging out here. You're right, it shouldn't matter, but a little self-promotion couldn't hurt, I don't think. An informal, yet visible presence of the NMRA here would keep the organization's name and resources in the minds of modelers, especially the many new modelers who join daily or oldtimers like me who return after a long haitus.

Wayne

[WickhamMan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

Without standards, we would have multiple variations of Marklin. Different voltages, different forward/reverse, etc. The manufacturers usually only agree that their product should be the standard. If one manufacturer gets big enough he buries his competition and they go out of business.

Look at micro computers before IBM, there were many variations and software on one would not run on another. IBM stepped into this void and imposed a "standard" by their size. All the others went under except Apple (and it's only alive because Bill Gates bought part of it) Fortunately, IBM failed to lock up their technology and the clone makers arose. Microsott didn't make that mistake and thus there is one PC operating system, Windows, since MicroSoft eliminated the competition. With no clones for compettion, they now use monopoly pricing for their Windows operating system.

Congress created The National Institute of Standards and Technology because it's important and can't be left to the manufacturers.
Enjoy
Paul

Paul,

Those are great comments. As a PhD candidate at a Public Policy School specializing in Science and Technology Policy, I am particularly interested in how government (and quasi-governmental agencies like NMRA) affect technologies. It is certainly true that some nacent technologies benefit from having standards but in most historical cases, they do not. The IBM history you recite strays a little from what actually transpired. IBM started off using standardized parts that they did not create, including their operating system. It was an effort to move quickly and to ultimately help "cloners" to create a standard in a market they hoped to (and did for a time) dominate. In addition, IBM made sure the operating system they sold (PC-DOS) was "open" for others to write software for. This led to a standard that eventually marginalized Apple (who retained hardware and software technologies in-house). This is very similar to the BETAMAX vs. VHS standards for video tapes. Ultimately, the open standard (VHS) won but not because of any market power.

Throughout many industries, standards bodies (like NMRA, IEEE, etc.) are co-opted by industry leaders enacting rent seeking behaviors. They push standards in order to marginalize their competition. Superior technologies are left wanting becuase the market gravitates toward the more prevelant (and often inferior) standard.

I believe the standards argument for NMRA is a poor one. NMRA serves a much greater purpose as a focal point for "social capital". Without groups like NMRA, there is a great deal a synergistic value lost in many communities. Fortunately for us, we have a relatively free and often more useful avenue for creation of this type of capital and you are using it right now. Forums like this and others provide virtual communities for the creation of social capital that benefit both the individuals and the industries they habitate.

OK, I get off the soapbox now.

Ed

[Robert Langford]

I belonged to the NMRA back in the 60 s . The information back then was mailed to the members (before PCs were available. I felt I got my moneys worth in the information I recieved. I am now retired and on a fixed income, I'm sure glad I kept all my equipment, to start at todays prices, I could't afford to get into the hobby. I'm thankful for the NMRA for their standards, but cannot see the price of joining now.
BOB
Super of the SANDY SOUTHERN RAILWAY

[MudHen_462]

I was into HO scale model RR'ing from the time I was 12 (1950) until my second tour in Viet Nam (1964). I was career Air Force, and I could see that flight crews were rotating back to VN about evey 18 to 24 months after returning to the States. I packed up my layout, and other than faithfully reading MR all those years, I was "in exile" from trains.

I recently retired for the second time, and have started back with a DCC layout.... and I decided to join NMRA. True, the price is high, but so is the cost of a magazine subscription now days.... but I can affiliate with a great NMRA Division ( "Turkey Creek" in Overland Park, KS.) and they have some pretty neat educational classes, so for the present, I think I stay a NMRA member.

Bob Hollowell / IronGoat

[rogerhensley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek

QUOTE: Originally posted by rogerhensley

Then you haven't been paying attention, Wayne. I have been doing exactly that. I just have never seen any reason to tell you that I am the NMRA Webmaster. It shouldn't matter.

I never made the connection, Roger. As I said in an earlier post, the NMRA website has a wealth of information and it's good to know the resident webmaster is hanging out here. You're right, it shouldn't matter, but a little self-promotion couldn't hurt, I don't think.

As an FYI, since they first went up in December of 2001, the NMRA's 'Introduction to Model Railroading' pages ( http://www.nmra.org/beginner/ ) have always had a number of pages in the top 30 pages in usage every month and usage continues to climb. Those pages and the Standards and RP pages are on the web as a service to the hobby. They are created and maintained by volunteers. The Standards are created and revised by volunteers and voted by the membership who model in those particular scales before they become a Standard.

Now, you don't have to support our efforts to support the hobby. You can worry about what you get for your dues if you wish. I don't worry about it at all. When I was out of work after closing my business, the only contact that I maintained with the hobby was my membership in the NMRA, not MR or RMC or any other publication, because I knew that keeping the NMRA was important to model railroading. Nothing has changed about that. I still believe that 25 years after joining.

Some of our divisions are very active and are the heart of the NMRA for their members. The Central Indiana Division is one such. ( http://cid.railfan.net/ )They have always been self supporting and have never charged dues and never will. If you are an NMRA member living in the CID, you are a member of the CID. True, not all of the NMRA operates this way, but that is beginning to change.

I loved Whit Towers as editor of the NMRA Bulletin, but Whit is gone. The Biffy's are gone. This is a new century and the NMRA is changing and reorganizing. You don't have to be a part of it. That is your choice, and I'll stand by that. If you would like to help support the hobby with us, then you can join on-line. You will get as much out of it as you put into it. I can't say more than that.

BTW - I am now retired on a very fixed income, but I continue with the NMRA even as I drop a couple of Historical Societies and a magazine or two. My HO scale railroad and the NMRA are THAT important to me. Of course, your mileage may vary.

[ericboone]

The original purpose of the NMRA was to facilitate standardization of equipment from multiple manufacturers. Now the industry has its own group, the Model Railroad Industry Association (www.mria.org). This group could easily and probably should take over developing and maintaining standards at no cost to the average modeler, except for the fraction of a penny in cost that may be added to each kit.

I was never much impressed with the magazine put out by the NMRA. (It has been may years since I've looked though.) The commercially available magazines are of a higher level of quality and subscriptions (MR is $40 / year) are less than NMRA annual dues ($45 / year). If you just looking for a good magazine, the NMRA is not the right place. Of course a magazine-less NMRA membership is $23, so I guess they figure the magazine is worth $22 a year.

The fellowship and advise is really better from online forums like this, local clubs, and other special interest groups (either affliated with the NMRA or not) like the multiple historical societies. I really learned more from the club I was a part of than anything. (Books and magazines are a close second.) I suppose the local NMRA groups are much like clubs (and often have their own dues) and could be very useful, but the national organization is really not necessary here.

After all this is said, is a magazine-less annual dues of $23 worth anything? Sure. $23 really is not that much. It is only about as much as one ready to run freight car.

[ericboone]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan
Ultimately, the open standard (VHS) won but not because of any market power.

What are you talking about here? Because of the VHS standard, more companies made products, increasing the supply and variety of available compatable products. The consumer having increased choices is indeed a big market force. Increased supply also reduces price, which is another big market force. Market forces had everything to do with VHS dominating BETA.

[on30francisco]

I used to belong to the NMRA in the late 70s through the early 90s. I feel it was well worth it back then. The Bulletins were very informative with a lot of modeling tips and ideas. I also liked their humor about the "biffies" and other items. I got interested in narrow gauge modeling thanks to a series of articles in the Bullietin. The NMRA has done a lot to promote and set standards for the hobby. I let my membership lapse when the Bulletins started becoming a means to express political views, promote conventions, and showcase other people's modeling. While I believe that information about conventions and the recognition of master modelers and their achievements is important, I believe the Bulletins main enphasis should be on articles about modeling in all scales and gauges like they were in the past.

[WickhamMan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericboone

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan
Ultimately, the open standard (VHS) won but not because of any market power.

What are you talking about here? Because of the VHS standard, more companies made products, increasing the supply and variety of available compatable products. The consumer having increased choices is indeed a big market force. Increased supply also reduces price, which is another big market force. Market forces had everything to do with VHS dominating BETA.

Eric,

You make my point exactly. The standard was set by market forces, not some arbitrary sanctioning body like NMRA or some large corporate monolith as stated in an earlier post.