Modeling 1900 means 19th Century steam only, and being on a limited budget (until the last year or two) means no brass. Not that there were a lot of brass models of 19th Century prototypes. And most of the brass geared locos I can now afford have the same "too large" problems as their cast counterparts.
In the past, I had a pretty limited selection - Mantua General, Ten Wheeler, and Twelve Wheeler; Roundhouse Old Timers; AHM/Rivarossi Americans, with Bachmann being the new source. Geared locomotives - Roundhouse Shay, Keystone Shay, Roundhouse Climax, AHM/Rivarossi Heisler. Of the geared locomotives, only the Keystone Shay is scale size and appropriate the to era without considerable modification. The same is true for the rod locomotives - considerable effort is needed to make them run well and look good - with the exception of Bachmann. Bachmann steam usually runs well, but when it doesn't, it really doesn't - and there's very little I can do to fix a faulty Chinese mechanism.
Mantua 4-6-0 and 4-8-0 used the same boiler, mechanism, and grossly out of scale cab for both models. Roundhouse also used the same boiler and mechanism for the Old Timer 4-4-0, 2-6-0, and 2-8-0.
Luckily, I'm a lone wolf model railroader building a small layout, so 3 engines that run well is quite sufficient.
My trials and tribulations with these locomotives have tempted me to buy a Bachmann On30 loco to at least be able to run trains quickly.
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
emdmikeAm I the only one that prefers older locomotives over this new high priced and much more fragle(to me at least) new stuff? While I started with Athearn blue box EMD's when I was in my teens, I shifted to yellow box era Atlas locos with the silky smooth Kato drive,which is often cloned by the Chinese but not equiled in my opinion. ... Other engines sporting this drive were the earlier Stewart F units. This all shifted when Kato started selling HO engines under their own brand.
All my Athearn Blue box that I am "satisfied" with have been remotered with can or coreless motors, flexible tub drive shafts, and regeared to get rid of the grinding gears noise. Atlas yellow boxes did not require as much rework but still work.
You ask what I prefer, and I have to ask prefer for what? Do I need a single loco that will pull 100 cars up a grade then an OLD HobbyTown E7 would be the loco of preference. Do I need a locomotive for a picture of the layout on the cover of a magazine I'll prefer a new Scale Trains thank you very much. Operating night with a bunch of clumbsy un-known operators I'll prefer the locomotives that you said, good runners but not much detail to get broken off. For Theme Day at the club or museum for the public, I'll prefer the Proto-2000, Genesis class as they run well and have enough detail to not look like toys to the general population.
I won't even go into how HARD it was to squeeze a PMP-112 decoder into one of those origijnal RS-3 locos. I had to cut the decoder into three parts and make jumpers between the pieces of circuit board. There was 30 hours that would have been saved with today's locomotive with decoders designed specifically to fit that specific shell. I much prefer to not have to do the decoder cram anymore, not to mention sound.
So I guess my preference follows function.
emdmike Am I the only one that prefers older locomotives over this new high priced and much more fragle(to me at least) new stuff? Mike the Aspie
Am I the only one that prefers older locomotives over this new high priced and much more fragle(to me at least) new stuff? Mike the Aspie
Im with ya.
Im not knocking the new stuff, i have some. Some are pretty nice. Some are tootle. The word you mentioned.... 'price'.... yeah, that ruins it for me and the hobby too.
I can get my BB's and YB's just as highly detailed (just as fragile). And they already run just as good as any Stewart, Kato, and certainly better than the Protos.
So at 1/4 the cost and NO discernable advantages, Id rather have 4 than 1.
Why would I own any of the new stuff? Because you cant get an Athearn E7A, or an Atlas NW2 in HO.
PMR
PM RailfanI can get my BB's and YB's just as highly detailed (just as fragile). And they already run just as good as any Stewart, Kato, and certainly better than the Protos.
Except for a SW8, all my older Proto 2000 locomotives run as good as my Stewart switchers & F-units and my Kato NW2. And I don't find the detailing all that delicate - even on the newer locomotive offerings. (I don't know. Maybe I just have a gentler touch when it comes to handling things?) The older Proto 2000 rolling stock kits are a different story. The stirrups on those those were especially delicate and prone to breakage.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstageThe older Proto 2000 rolling stock kits are a different story. The stirrups on those those were especially delicate and prone to breakage.
Not only were the stirrups incredibly fragile, everything else was too!! Lift rings, grab irons, exhaust stacks....you name it. They would all break if you even thought about trying to pick one up. It was a hard way to learn how to delicately handle a locomotive, but now I always think twice before deciding where to put my fingers when picking a locomotive up, regardless of the brand.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
PM Railfan emdmike I can get my BB's and YB's just as highly detailed (just as fragile). And they already run just as good as any Stewart, Kato, and certainly better than the Protos. So at 1/4 the cost and NO discernable advantages, Id rather have 4 than 1. PMR
emdmike I can get my BB's and YB's just as highly detailed (just as fragile). And they already run just as good as any Stewart, Kato, and certainly better than the Protos.
Many of the old Athearn's have long hoods that are wider than the prototype, in order for the old coffee grinder motor to fit. It is has been awhile since I did anything with a Blue Box, but I think the SD40-2 and the GP38-2 were the first with a scale width hood. Having a long hood that is noticeably wider than the prototype is a HUGE disadvantage.
There is a picture in this thread that shows the difference between a wide body and a scale width Proto.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/270169.aspx
An "expensive model collector"
Those older Walthers and LL Proto tank car kits were horrible to assemble, IMO. They are probably going on 20 years old now, and the detail parts may have been plastic and not wire. I would not use them as a measure of what the market has to offer now.
Most modern models have wire details, or plastic that is more flexible than the previous thin plastic used 20 years ago.
I have purchased quite a bit of new equipment in 2020. Most issues with details has been with them falling off, needing reattaching, not really breaking.
I pick up all new diesel locos by the middle of the long hood. Seems to work just fine.
And handling rolling stock isn't really an issue since most of the fine detail parts are on the ends or underneath.
- Douglas
DoughlessThose older Walthers and LL Proto tank car kits were horrible to assemble, IMO. They are probably going on 20 years old now, and the detail parts may have been plastic and not wire.
I have five Life-Like Proto-2000 8,000 gallon tank cars painted and lettered for the STRATTON AND GILLETTE.
Detail Associates made tank grabs and dome grabs from wire that replace the plastic kit parts perfectly. I used Tichy wire grabs for the frame. The stirrups are the kit plastic parts. They are pretty durable and look quite good.
There are only seven or eight plactic tank cars in my fleet. I have purchased brass tank car models exclusively for years because of how much better they stand up to being handled.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
It's hard to get those older model locomotives to run very slowly and very smoothly. That is my #1 expectation of a locomotive.
emdmikeAm I the only one that prefers older locomotives over this new high priced and much more fragle(to me at least) new stuff?
In our club environment, I love the simplicity and durability of Athearn and Roundhouse freight cars... no detail for the ham-fisted to break off.
But for locomotives, one I saw see-through handrails, it was hard to go back!
I'm on a tight budget so I've gravitated towards Life Like Proto 2000 locos. Nice mix of detail and Athearn drivetrain simplicity and at reasonable prices. Fragile, but not too fragile (and you can't see a broken handrail from 20' away anyway).
But -- we're DCC at our club and a new loco on sale at TW or Walthers is a good a deal as putting sound in an old BB. If you're patient you can find what you like.
A friend with a wholesale connection has hooked me up with some Genesis locos at a cheap price. Lovely locos but yes, I fear for fragility. I've broken details just taking the shells off for service. I rarely leave them at the club, they usually go back in their boxes after a run.
Athearn's RTR diesels can be a very good deal... BB simlicity with the details you'd be adding on anyway. A tad fragile but decent value. Every once in a while an RTR w sound pops up on TrainWorld for very cheap.
Aaron
Shock ControlIt's hard to get those older model locomotives to run very slowly and very smoothly.
Athearn Blue Box, maybe. However, my Stewart/Kato F units, Proto-2000 models, and my Atlas/Roco S2 run slowly and smoothly like champions.
SeeYou190Athearn Blue Box, maybe. However, my Stewart/Kato F units, Proto-2000 models, and my Atlas/Roco S2 run slowly and smoothly like champions. -Kevin
They were making Proto 2000s in the 1950s?
Shock ControlThey were making Proto 2000s in the 1950s?
The title of the thread was Athearn Blue Box, Atlas Yellow Box, etc.
Many of the previous responses included Kato, Proto 2000, etc.
Did the conversation take a turn to 1950s models that I missed?
SeeYou190Shock Control They were making Proto 2000s in the 1950s? The title of the thread was Athearn Blue Box, Atlas Yellow Box, etc. Many of the previous responses included Kato, Proto 2000, etc. Did the conversation take a turn to 1950s models that I missed? -Kevin
Silly me. I conflated "Athearn Blue Box" and "Atlas Yellow Box," and I saw "Athearn Yellow Box," and immediately thought of rubber band drives. I might have blamed it on drinking, but I've been sober for nearly a week.
I have two sets of Proto 1000 F3 A&B units, and they are my go-to locomotives.
Carry on.
ALL of the Kato built Atlas models came in the yellow box era, along with the Roco built ones. Kato driven Atlas models are the RS3, yes a wonder of the world at the time for smoothness and quiet running, the RS1, RS11, RSD4/5, RSD12, C424, C425 and the GP7. The remaining yellow box models were Roco driven with their typical "growl" they have. The S series switchers have a unique sound to them but are smooth and pull really well thanks to the diecast chassis. The GP and SD and FP diesels have their own sound to them. Yes the fuel tanks suck on the GP and SD models, and the windshields look like the FP is squinting. But for the time, they were and still are great models. Finding certain road names on specific models is hard. Try finding Clinchfield yellow/grey GP7's or BC Rail Alco C425's. I am looking for both road numbers of the latter with no luck lately. The early Stewart F series were Kato driven as well but switched to a China clone of the Kato drive, looks identical but the performance is a tad lower and there are no "Kato" markings on the truck gear cases. But they still run really nice overall. I just prefer the Kato drives over pretty much anything on the market, both in HO and N scale. The molded on details or lack of them is not a detraction from models that I handle on a regular basis or would take to the club layout on regular occasion. Less to break or get mangled, and if I wanted that detail, I would add it myself. The whole task/project of detailing a model how I wanted it, was all part of the enjoyment of the hobby. Detailing a diesel whilst watching a game on TV was an enjoyable evening or Sunday afternoon. Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome