Well, it would be ok with me if LIONEL proves me wrong. I was working in hobby shops in the seventies and watched Mantua/Tyco start to fade in popularity then.
After buying it back from Consolidated Foods in 1977, and doing some upgrades, the Tyler family had an ok run with these products in the 80's, until the high detail revolution, Model Power never seemed to be doing all that well while they had it for 14 years, and MRC clearly did nothing but finish selling off the Model Power stuff already in the pipeline.
I have a sentimental attachment to these products, I had the Mikado, Pacific, big six and other stuff as a teen modeler. But even in the budget/entry category times have changed.
We will see.
Just to be clear about Bachmann, a fact so many people cannot seem to grasp, they make products at every level, entry, mid grade and high end.
There is nothing "lower end" about a Bachmann EM-1, or most of the items that have been marketed under the Spectrum Line, and a good number of the regular line models are nearly as good.
And companies like BLI who have a "high end" reputation, have long ago "cheapened up" the detail level of some items like their completely "generic" USRA Mikado and Pacific.
This reinforces a view I have held for decades, you have to judge the quality and detail of each item on it's own merits, you cannot assume that every product from a particular brand is always at the same "level".
I do think the Mantua locos could be easily improved by retooling the boilers with just a few separately applied details replacing some of the cast on details and it would make a world of difference.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALI do think the Mantua locos could be easily improved by retooling the boilers with just a few separately applied details replacing some of the cast on details and it would make a world of difference.
Cary/Stewart used to make (maybe still do) a replacement boiler and detail kit for the Mantua 2-8-2 that was basically a USRA light body. It would be nice for some manufacturer to put those together at the factory, kinda like how Athearn Genesis F-units use the Highliner body shell and detailing.
wjstix Cary/Stewart used to make (maybe still do) a replacement boiler and detail kit for the Mantua 2-8-2 that was basically a USRA light body....
Bowser bought both of those companies some years ago, and continued offering the USRA boiler castings for some time. To the best of my knowledge, I bought the last one they had, offered in a "clearance" sale of discontinued items, quite a few years ago. I eventually gave it to a friend.I recently received notice of another Bowser on-line sale of discontinued boiler castings, but none were the Cary offering.
Wayne
doctorwayne wjstix Cary/Stewart used to make (maybe still do) a replacement boiler and detail kit for the Mantua 2-8-2 that was basically a USRA light body.... Bowser bought both of those companies some years ago, and continued offering the USRA boiler castings for some time. To the best of my knowledge, I bought the last one they had, offered in a "clearance" sale of discontinued items, quite a few years ago. I eventually gave it to a friend.I recently received notice of another Bowser on-line sale of discontinued boiler castings, but none were the Cary offering. Wayne
I found some Cary boilers on eBay. I had a Mantua Mikado with a damaged boiler and cab, and mounted a USRA boiler. I upgraded the motor with supermagnets, cut a piece of styrene to be a tender floor, and installed a decoder in the tender:
It also came with a bag of brass details, which I have been installing (slowly):
Gary
ATLANTIC CENTRALJust to be clear about Bachmann, a fact so many people cannot seem to grasp, they make products at every level, entry, mid grade and high end.
Exactly this. It seems many people forget this, Bachmann is no longer the cheap expendable quality of the 80s, today they are up there with Athearn and Walthers (mainline). I have their streamlined PRR K4 with TCS Wowsound. Smooth running, great sound and amazing detail, if a bit light on the pulling power. Not to mention their ACS-64 and SC-44. Even some of their entry level stuff can be good with a little weathering and modifications.
BayCoastLimited ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just to be clear about Bachmann, a fact so many people cannot seem to grasp, they make products at every level, entry, mid grade and high end. Exactly this. It seems many people forget this, Bachmann is no longer the cheap expendable quality of the 80s, today they are up there with Athearn and Walthers (mainline). I have their streamlined PRR K4 with TCS Wowsound. Smooth running, great sound and amazing detail, if a bit light on the pulling power. Not to mention their ACS-64 and SC-44. Even some of their entry level stuff can be good with a little weathering and modifications.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just to be clear about Bachmann, a fact so many people cannot seem to grasp, they make products at every level, entry, mid grade and high end.
And if you include the totality of what they have made in the last 20 years, the list is an impressive selection of nice models.
Spectrum and improved regular line steam:
4-8-2 USRA HEAVY
4-8-2 USRA LIGHT
2-8-0
2-10-2 USRA LIGHT
B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4
PRR K-4 (various versions and improvements)
2-10-0 RUSSIAN
0-6-0 tank engine
4-6-0
SP GS-4
2-6-6-2 (USRA/C&O)
N&W J
2-8-4 with correct domes and other details, C&O, PM, NKP
2-8-2 USRA LIGHT
4-6-2 USRA LIGHT
That's a pretty impressive list of every day, mostly medium sized, practical steam locos. Rather than the parade of giant "famous" locos we see from the other steam manufacturers.
And this is the problem for LIONEL, they need to do just as good a job as Bachmann (regular line) detail wise and running quality wise, if they expect to do well.
Lets see, another "USRA Light Mikado" model...
For that price I can buy either of the following:
1) Oriental Powerhouse brass hybrid USRA light 2-8-2 with slight better detail, incredible pulling power, and an easy to service mechanism.
2) Sunset/Samhongsa 1980s run brass USRA 2-8-2 with much better detail and a very smooth mechanism.
I will be passing on this offering.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Great point Sheldon, Bachmann has done a nice job in the past 20 years. I have several and never a issue. Lionel will have to follow Bachmanns lead of they want to be successful. Dave s ATLANTIC CENTRAL BayCoastLimited ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just to be clear about Bachmann, a fact so many people cannot seem to grasp, they make products at every level, entry, mid grade and high end. Exactly this. It seems many people forget this, Bachmann is no longer the cheap expendable quality of the 80s, today they are up there with Athearn and Walthers (mainline). I have their streamlined PRR K4 with TCS Wowsound. Smooth running, great sound and amazing detail, if a bit light on the pulling power. Not to mention their ACS-64 and SC-44. Even some of their entry level stuff can be good with a little weathering and modifications. And if you include the totality of what they have made in the last 20 years, the list is an impressive selection of nice models. Spectrum and improved regular line steam: 4-8-2 USRA HEAVY 4-8-2 USRA LIGHT 2-8-0 2-10-2 USRA LIGHT B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 PRR K-4 (various versions and improvements) 2-10-0 RUSSIAN 0-6-0 tank engine 4-6-0 SP GS-4 2-6-6-2 (USRA/C&O) N&W J 2-8-4 with correct domes and other details, C&O, PM, NKP 2-8-2 USRA LIGHT 4-6-2 USRA LIGHT That's a pretty impressive list of every day, mostly medium sized, practical steam locos. Rather than the parade of giant "famous" locos we see from the other steam manufacturers. And this is the problem for LIONEL, they need to do just as good a job as Bachmann (regular line) detail wise and running quality wise, if they expect to do well. Sheldon BayCoastLimited ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just to be clear about Bachmann, a fact so many people cannot seem to grasp, they make products at every level, entry, mid grade and high end. Exactly this. It seems many people forget this, Bachmann is no longer the cheap expendable quality of the 80s, today they are up there with Athearn and Walthers (mainline). I have their streamlined PRR K4 with TCS Wowsound. Smooth running, great sound and amazing detail, if a bit light on the pulling power. Not to mention their ACS-64 and SC-44. Even some of their entry level stuff can be good with a little weathering and modifications. And if you include the totality of what they have made in the last 20 years, the list is an impressive selection of nice models. Spectrum and improved regular line steam: 4-8-2 USRA HEAVY 4-8-2 USRA LIGHT 2-8-0 2-10-2 USRA LIGHT B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 PRR K-4 (various versions and improvements) 2-10-0 RUSSIAN 0-6-0 tank engine 4-6-0 SP GS-4 2-6-6-2 (USRA/C&O) N&W J 2-8-4 with correct domes and other details, C&O, PM, NKP 2-8-2 USRA LIGHT 4-6-2 USRA LIGHT That's a pretty impressive list of every day, mostly medium sized, practical steam locos. Rather than the parade of giant "famous" locos we see from the other steam manufacturers. And this is the problem for LIONEL, they need to do just as good a job as Bachmann (regular line) detail wise and running quality wise, if they expect to do well. Sheldon
Great point Sheldon, Bachmann has done a nice job in the past 20 years. I have several and never a issue. Lionel will have to follow Bachmanns lead of they want to be successful.
Dave
s
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BayCoastLimited ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just to be clear about Bachmann, a fact so many people cannot seem to grasp, they make products at every level, entry, mid grade and high end. Exactly this. It seems many people forget this, Bachmann is no longer the cheap expendable quality of the 80s, today they are up there with Athearn and Walthers (mainline). I have their streamlined PRR K4 with TCS Wowsound. Smooth running, great sound and amazing detail, if a bit light on the pulling power. Not to mention their ACS-64 and SC-44. Even some of their entry level stuff can be good with a little weathering and modifications. And if you include the totality of what they have made in the last 20 years, the list is an impressive selection of nice models. Spectrum and improved regular line steam: 4-8-2 USRA HEAVY 4-8-2 USRA LIGHT 2-8-0 2-10-2 USRA LIGHT B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 PRR K-4 (various versions and improvements) 2-10-0 RUSSIAN 0-6-0 tank engine 4-6-0 SP GS-4 2-6-6-2 (USRA/C&O) N&W J 2-8-4 with correct domes and other details, C&O, PM, NKP 2-8-2 USRA LIGHT 4-6-2 USRA LIGHT That's a pretty impressive list of every day, mostly medium sized, practical steam locos. Rather than the parade of giant "famous" locos we see from the other steam manufacturers. And this is the problem for LIONEL, they need to do just as good a job as Bachmann (regular line) detail wise and running quality wise, if they expect to do well. Sheldon
Bachmann Spectrum also included the Shay, the odd Chinese 2-8-2, Richmond 4-4-0, and Modern 4-4-0, but yea I agree, I love their spectrum engines, especially considering the fact that they made so many that the used market is full of em and for cheap too!
Lionel isn't afraid of re-releasing engines from ancient tooling...their entry line of LionChief plus steam engines is literally from Postwar Lionel moldings.
For example, this Lionchief Plus 4-6-2 is the same as the Postwar Lionel 4-6-4 made in 1953!!
You'll find the same for their Lionchief 4-6-4, 2-8-4, or etc are all from old castings...just compare images.
Obviously there's nothing wrong with using old castings for $$$ entry level sets, but you'd think eventually, they will retire stuff made back in 1950s.
Charles
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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO
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wjstix ATLANTIC CENTRAL I do think the Mantua locos could be easily improved by retooling the boilers with just a few separately applied details replacing some of the cast on details and it would make a world of difference. Cary/Stewart used to make (maybe still do) a replacement boiler and detail kit for the Mantua 2-8-2 that was basically a USRA light body. It would be nice for some manufacturer to put those together at the factory, kinda like how Athearn Genesis F-units use the Highliner body shell and detailing.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I do think the Mantua locos could be easily improved by retooling the boilers with just a few separately applied details replacing some of the cast on details and it would make a world of difference.
Yeah I really want a simple yet fine RTR Diecast USRA locomotive that is like the simple end of the HO Spectrum Examples being Mantua, Walthers Mainline, or Athearn Roundhouse only they are made domestically rather than foreignly and they can be easily disassembled and reassembled and also have the novelty of being rugged and able to modify and move or add detail parts arround.I would also love it if they could have upgrades to look a bit more serious like a fine brass pilot, cab, and tender.
Sheldon, When I was a member of the Columbus HO club back in the 60s we had a member that completely rebuilt a Mantua Mike. He added a new cowcatcher,added several Kemtron detail parts, made a new cab from brass stock and what impress me was the flying pumps mounted on the front of the boiler.. I never will forget that engine.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL I do think the Mantua locos could be easily improved by retooling the boilers with just a few separately applied details replacing some of the cast on details and it would make a world of difference. Sheldon, When I was a member of the Columbus HO club back in the 60s we had a member that completely rebuilt a Mantua Mike. He added a new cowcatcher,added several Kemtron detail parts, made a new cab from brass stock and what impress me was the flying pumps mounted on the front of the boiler.. I never will forget that engine.
Oregon_Steamer BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL I do think the Mantua locos could be easily improved by retooling the boilers with just a few separately applied details replacing some of the cast on details and it would make a world of difference. Sheldon, When I was a member of the Columbus HO club back in the 60s we had a member that completely rebuilt a Mantua Mike. He added a new cowcatcher,added several Kemtron detail parts, made a new cab from brass stock and what impress me was the flying pumps mounted on the front of the boiler.. I never will forget that engine. Did it look something like this? https://issuu.com/trainresource/docs/tyco_mike_rm_v6_n1_jan_1976-online
Did it look something like this? https://issuu.com/trainresource/docs/tyco_mike_rm_v6_n1_jan_1976-online
Close but, he added the flying pumps, new cab,high mounted highlight and lots of Kemtron detail parts.. When he first brought that engine to the club I thought it was a PFM or Balboa.. It lost all of it Mantua looks since the detal parts improved the looks of the boiler. IIRC he used a United Models 2-8-2 4 wheel tender.