carl425 BRAKIE All major railroads including the N&W used switchers in their yard since these switchers was designed and built to replae steam switch engines...N&W favored Alco's T-5 switcher. "Favored" is a bit generous. The large majority of switchers on the N&W came from NKP and WAB. The N&W only made one purchase of diesel "switchers". They bought 40 T-6's (not T-5) in 1959. They were used primarily at Lambert's Point and Portsmouth Ohio. In the yards along the line like Crewe, Shaffers Crossing, Bluefield and Williamson switching work was done with road engines - usually in multiples. And technically, since the "T" stands for "transfer" you can sort of make the case that these aren't switchers.
BRAKIE All major railroads including the N&W used switchers in their yard since these switchers was designed and built to replae steam switch engines...N&W favored Alco's T-5 switcher.
"Favored" is a bit generous. The large majority of switchers on the N&W came from NKP and WAB. The N&W only made one purchase of diesel "switchers". They bought 40 T-6's (not T-5) in 1959. They were used primarily at Lambert's Point and Portsmouth Ohio. In the yards along the line like Crewe, Shaffers Crossing, Bluefield and Williamson switching work was done with road engines - usually in multiples.
And technically, since the "T" stands for "transfer" you can sort of make the case that these aren't switchers.
N&W did indeed favor the T-6 since those was the only yard switchers they bought.
T-6 was used in Portsmouth,Ohio as hump engines(a set of three units was used) and for flat switching.In Columbus the T-6 was used in yard and urban local service..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
dinwittydon't these turnouts have metal frogs? That is easily powerable. #6 Atlas turnouts do.
They aren't easily powerable if they are already ballasted and there are about 50 of them. If you power the frog, then you must insulate the diverging ends other wise there will be a short. That is the reason the frogs were insulated in the first place. I haven't looked at what it requires to power an Atlas frog but I do have a few Walther's turnouts with powered frogs and I use a Peco accessory switch attached to the switch motor to change the polarity of the frog depending on which route is selecteded. I'm guessing Atlas would require something similar.
As I stated in the OP, powering the frogs is not an option. There is only one option on the table. Get switch engines that can negotiate insulated frogs. Whether that is best done by modifying the current switch engines or acquiring new ones is what I am still trying to figure out.
Doughless I run switchers and feel your pain. At least sound is not a requirement, because there are very few switchers with onboard sound that do not have problems running over unpowered frogs....not just Atlas turnouts either, IMO. My experience says the yellow/red box Atlas S series switchers have the best electrical pickup of any switcher, not to mention being really heavy. I think converting them to DCC can be a project, but not too difficult with plenty of info on the net for guidance. On second thought, the Athearn switchers I owned were pretty reliable over Atlas turnouts too.
I run switchers and feel your pain. At least sound is not a requirement, because there are very few switchers with onboard sound that do not have problems running over unpowered frogs....not just Atlas turnouts either, IMO.
My experience says the yellow/red box Atlas S series switchers have the best electrical pickup of any switcher, not to mention being really heavy. I think converting them to DCC can be a project, but not too difficult with plenty of info on the net for guidance.
On second thought, the Athearn switchers I owned were pretty reliable over Atlas turnouts too.
Thanks. I'll keep these suggestions in mind in the event that adding Keep Alive technology to the current switchers turns out not to be an option. I currently am waiting for a reply to the e-mail I sent TCS tech support telling me if I can add a capacitor to my current decoders or if they have a replacement decoder with the Keep Alive feature. These switchers are about 10 years old and what little information I could get from their website seems to indicate those decoders might not be upgradeable.
jecorbettIt would seem strange to me that too identical locos would both have the same bad wiring and show exactly the same symptoms.
I had a pair of Athearn SW1500s in a consist, purchased at different times from different shops, that both exhibited the same behavior, requiring me to disassemble them and tune them up. They started to run badly at about the same time, stalling on... Atlas #6 frogs. They both had improperly stripped and connected wires between the trucks and decoder, and the decoder and motor. They both had paint/blackener inside the axle bearing slots in the trucks that interfered with contact. If both locos are assembled at the same factory, they can most certainly suffer from the same quality control issues and/or the same design flaws that require user tuning to correct. Bad wiring connections are VERY common in today's RTR locos, and stalling on frogs is a typical symptom.
The fix that made my SW1500s reliable cost nothing beyond some time on my part. Other models have required similar fixes.
Rob Spangler
If anyone does desire to power a Atlas customline turnout after it has already been installed/ballasted. In the metal frog, where there is a hole built into the casting. Drill all the way through that hole with the same size drill bit, then take a #24 solid insulated wire, strip the end at the frog and put a 90 degree bend in it so it overlaps the hole a tiny bit. Then use a 1-72 Black machine screw insert in the hole with the wire and with a little pressure, you can tighten that screw into the hole flush with the wire in it. You can paint the screw flat black and it really is not that noticeable. If You need gaps beyond the frog, just cuts gaps in the rails, no need to fill them, unless you want to. I have sucessfully used that procedure on quite a few Atlas turnouts, that I later found needed to be powered, for very slow speed operation. I either connected them to a relay or used the Caboose ground throws with the switch for power, they all work very reliablely.
Take Care!
Frank
Others posting have already suggested that the electrical path between the axles and frames is not very reliable. An older thread on this subject advised using conductive lube at the axle/frame contact points. I did this,and it greatly reduced the stalling issues with my BLI SW's. If they sit unused for an extended period,I have to run them back and forth a bit(redistribute the lube,I guess).You might try this,see if it helps,before taking more drastic steps.
Mike
middleman Others posting have already suggested that the electrical path between the axles and frames is not very reliable. An older thread on this subject advised using conductive lube at the axle/frame contact points. I did this,and it greatly reduced the stalling issues with my BLI SW's. If they sit unused for an extended period,I have to run them back and forth a bit(redistribute the lube,I guess).You might try this,see if it helps,before taking more drastic steps. Mike
Sounds like it might be worth a try. Do you have a brand name and a place where I can get some of that conductive lube? I have a couple products that are improve conductivity on the rails. Would those work as well?
'Can't find a brand name on the tube I have(bought several years ago from Caboose Hobbies). Bachmann has a conductive lube,Micro Mark sells some,Aero lubricants makes some intended for brushes,commutators,though they may be too thin for this purpose.
The lube I have is a rather thick,black oil in a syringe.'Probably just gear oil with graphite added. If you do find/try one make sure it is plastic compatible,and use it sparingly,conductive lubes can cause havoc if they get into areas that should be insulated. I'm not sure about rail conductivity products - they may have no lubrication value. Maybe others here who have more experience with these will comment. As a first step,a thorough cleaning of the axle ends/plate area might help..although that didn't do much in my case.
middleman 'Can't find a brand name on the tube I have(bought several years ago from Caboose Hobbies). Bachmann has a conductive lube,Micro Mark sells some,Aero lubricants makes some intended for brushes,commutators,though they may be too thin for this purpose. The lube I have is a rather thick,black oil in a syringe.'Probably just gear oil with graphite added. If you do find/try one make sure it is plastic compatible,and use it sparingly,conductive lubes can cause havoc if they get into areas that should be insulated. I'm not sure about rail conductivity products - they may have no lubrication value. Maybe others here who have more experience with these will comment. As a first step,a thorough cleaning of the axle ends/plate area might help..although that didn't do much in my case. Mike
You might be on to something. I didn't have any of the lube you mentioned on hand so I tried a product I've used for years called Rail Zip. It's a liquid with a red tint and is intended to remove oxidation from rails and improve conductivity. I think it was much more popular in the brass track days but I still use it and it works. I applied it to the points you suggested. At first, the improvement was minimal but than noticeable. It has all but eliminated stalling on the #6 turnouts. I am still having sporadic problems on the #8s which I use at the entrances to the yards. They have a much longer frog and the wheels barely bridge the frog. At first it stalled every time but the more I ran the loco back and forth, the better the performance. Sometimes it still stops dead. Sometimes there is a momentary hesitation. Sometimes it passes over the #8 frog without even a slight hesitation. I also have a diamond with insulated frogs and I'm having similar issues on that as well. I did notice after a while that I needed to apply some more Rail Zip so I don't know if this is going to be a permanent fix or a stop gap. In either case, it is a vast improvement over what I had and if it turns out to be a permanent fix, it is a lot cheaper than adding capacitors or replacing decoders.
Unless they are the really old original Custom-Line turnouts, they do not need gaps if the frog is powered. The frog is completely isolated from the entire turnout, and the diverging frog rails connect UNDER the frog to the respective closure rail.
I'd be wary of anything put on the track that remains wet or damp. SHort term this may help, but long term it will attract dust and dirt and make things worse. Same with wheel pickups and wipers. Rail Zip is nothing more than automatic transmission fluid packaged in a convenient size.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
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