Matt,
Yea, that's the one. What you need is a USB-to-printer cable to interface between your computer and the USB module. You'll also need the 4-contact coily coil that came with your Power Cab in order to connect the Power Cab to the opposite end of the module board.
It's a bit tricky to initially set up, as you need to install & connect things (e.g driver) in a particular order so that JMRI properly recognizes the USB module. Once it's set up though it operates well. NCE has more information on the USB module, if it is something you think you are interested in:
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001995503-Using-the-USB-Interface-with-JMRI-Read-Me-First
The JMRI website also has information, as well...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstageActually, the easiest place to store those CVs (and all of your CVs) is JMRI Decoder Pro, which is a free download. It will read and capture the CVs for each locomotive and store it for prosterity. It is especially beneficial when you have to reset your locomotive's decoder back to factory settings. You can then just write them back to the reset decoder and not lose any of those CV settings that you spent time tweaking. To do that you'll need an NCE USB module to interface between your decoder, your Power Cab, and the computer you load Decoder Pro on. Given that I have 50+ locomotives with decoders, it's worth the cost to have all those CVs stored in a safe place for retrieval, if and when needed. Tom
Tom, is it this?https://www.ebay.com/itm/254221678621?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=254221678621&targetid=1263433205254&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033307&poi=&campaignid=10454522096&mkgroupid=120142078537&rlsatarget=pla-1263433205254&abcId=2146002&merchantid=119221719&gclid=CjwKCAiAvriMBhAuEiwA8Cs5lX6JGJAnBQor-7YvTY4rQVrVP0Ub8uHeRQMdMV_gqIBgFy4V01bpJRoCYJQQAvD_BwE
Do you just run a USB cable from this to a laptop?
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
crossthedogI saw that the little spiral manual that came with my NCE cab has a handy list in the back where you can record those CVs. I intend to do that. In pencil.
Actually, the easiest place to store those CVs (and all of your CVs) is JMRI Decoder Pro, which is a free download. It will read and capture the CVs for each locomotive and store it for prosterity. It is especially beneficial when you have to reset your locomotive's decoder back to factory settings. You can then just write them back to the reset decoder and not lose any of those CV settings that you spent time tweaking.
To do that you'll need an NCE USB module to interface between your decoder, your Power Cab, and the computer you load Decoder Pro on. Given that I have 50+ locomotives with decoders, it's worth the cost to have all those CVs stored in a safe place for retrieval, if and when needed.
crossthedog Thanks to everyone who helped with this and especially you two: tsd for hitting upon the final answer and Rich for his absurd level of dedication to the project and for not pulling any punches.
Thanks to everyone who helped with this and especially you two: tsd for hitting upon the final answer and Rich for his absurd level of dedication to the project and for not pulling any punches.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainrichhotrain wrote the following post 2 hours ago: tsd One thing that people don't always get is that the manual is for say every steam engine. So it may say a default is say 100, that does not mean that is the default for every engine. BLI will tweak default CV's for different engines and at that point is partly the peference of the person tuning the engine for the production run as to what CV's get set to for their default. I have to agree with you on this point. When I first went down to my layout a few days back to test my two Paragon 2 equipped steam locomotives in order to help Matt, the first thing that I did was to record all of the sound CV values between CV 130 and CV 152 in each loco. (I did not test CV 198 because the Rod Knock Volume did not seem relevant to Matt's issue.) The values in CV 130 to CV152 did not always match the default values in the manual, although I had reset the decoders to factory defaults prior to the test. Rich
@tsd, this is good to know and keep in mind. Thanks.
@Rich, I saw that the little spiral manual that came with my NCE cab has a handy list in the back where you can record those CVs. I intend to do that. In pencil.
tsd One thing that people don't always get is that the manual is for say every steam engine. So it may say a default is say 100, that does not mean that is the default for every engine. BLI will tweak default CV's for different engines and at that point is partly the peference of the person tuning the engine for the production run as to what CV's get set to for their default.
One thing that people don't always get is that the manual is for say every steam engine. So it may say a default is say 100, that does not mean that is the default for every engine. BLI will tweak default CV's for different engines and at that point is partly the peference of the person tuning the engine for the production run as to what CV's get set to for their default.
When I first went down to my layout a few days back to test my two Paragon 2 equipped steam locomotives in order to help Matt, the first thing that I did was to record all of the sound CV values between CV 130 and CV 152 in each loco. (I did not test CV 198 because the Rod Knock Volume did not seem relevant to Matt's issue.) The values in CV 130 to CV152 did not always match the default values in the manual, although I had reset the decoders to factory defaults prior to the test.
crossthedog It was CV 137. I turned it down to '60' and all is well. I even like it a little bit, when I can hear it underneath the hiss and flow and chuff of the other sounds. Mystery SOLVED. Thanks team.
It was CV 137. I turned it down to '60' and all is well. I even like it a little bit, when I can hear it underneath the hiss and flow and chuff of the other sounds. Mystery SOLVED. Thanks team.
Glad to hear it! If I had to guess, the engine just was not tuned well for that production run or engine when in Paragon 2, that the default for that CV should have been lower.
Of course this is also why almost everything is customizable via CV :)
tsdJust as a side note, that CV137 does impact 3 sound sets, but includes the background noise which sounds much like the air pump as well. So that may be why when you change CV143 it did not seem to do anything, because CV137 sounds very close and would play when idle too I believe.
Lastspikemike I'm pretty sure the clanking sound is not the same as the air pump sound.
I'm pretty sure the clanking sound is not the same as the air pump sound.
Yeah your right, Got the stuff crossed. So yes CV for rod knock would not be it as the recordings I took was of the air pump and background noise. So CV143 for air pump noise, and CV137 which is background, startup and shutdown sound effects, which if you listen to both recordings, 1 is for the air pump noise and the other has the background noise, how close they sound:
Air Pump:
https://recorder.google.com/share/9ad7deec-b624-485e-9d5a-55f7f5415b3e
Background noise (which has how it sounds on both Paragon 2 and Paragon 3/4):
https://recorder.google.com/share/f101ed67-960e-405b-b0d2-2b425b5327c7
Just as a side note, that CV137 does impact 3 sound sets, but includes the background noise which sounds much like the air pump as well. So that may be why when you change CV143 it did not seem to do anything, because CV137 sounds very close and would play when idle too I believe.
crossthedog tsd So you may need/want to adjust CV 198 and 137 as both of them are sounding the same to you, but are indeed for different sounds. Yikes. Not only incapable of handling the IQ requirements of DCC, but deaf as well? It's really not looking good for me here. Check please!
tsd So you may need/want to adjust CV 198 and 137 as both of them are sounding the same to you, but are indeed for different sounds.
Yikes. Not only incapable of handling the IQ requirements of DCC, but deaf as well? It's really not looking good for me here. Check please!
No problem. I honestly had to listen to them again to realize they both sounded very close, as I did them with some time between the two. So not just you, but got me! lol
richhotrain crossthedog richhotrain I just don't think that you are testing correctly. Again, sorry, but there would seem to be no other conclusion to draw. Rich, I'm not horribly offended, just so you know. I don't take things personally. That is good to know, Matt, and at this point I apologize for even bringing your screen name into the discussion
Thanks all. It's been a riot. Like... almost literally a riot.
crossthedog CSX Robert It could very well could be a problem with the decoder itself, such as bad or failing eeprom memory. Ha! I wasn't going to throw Rich under the bus, but that was the other potential conclusion that I would have pointed out. It may be unlikely, but it's still a possibility.
CSX Robert It could very well could be a problem with the decoder itself, such as bad or failing eeprom memory.
Ha! I wasn't going to throw Rich under the bus, but that was the other potential conclusion that I would have pointed out. It may be unlikely, but it's still a possibility.
tsdSo you may need/want to adjust CV 198 and 137 as both of them are sounding the same to you, but are indeed for different sounds.
crossthedog richhotrain I just don't think that you are testing correctly. Again, sorry, but there would seem to be no other conclusion to draw. Rich, I'm not horribly offended, just so you know. I don't take things personally.
richhotrain I just don't think that you are testing correctly. Again, sorry, but there would seem to be no other conclusion to draw.
Rich, I'm not horribly offended, just so you know. I don't take things personally.
CSX RobertIt could very well could be a problem with the decoder itself, such as bad or failing eeprom memory.
crossthedog tsd, I'm not sure what the difference was supposed to be between this link and the last one you sent, except that it's different versions of Paragon? It's still the correct sound. All of those recordings are the same sound as the one I'm hearing. And whoever asked about "when" I was hearing it: A: All the time. As soon as I quit programming and go back to the regular train running mode (which means I have to hit Inc or jiggle the throttle wheel slightly) the train starts in with the chuffing, hissing and clanking. Both at idle and at speed, the clanking will abate for stretches of a few seconds or so.
tsd, I'm not sure what the difference was supposed to be between this link and the last one you sent, except that it's different versions of Paragon? It's still the correct sound. All of those recordings are the same sound as the one I'm hearing.
And whoever asked about "when" I was hearing it: A: All the time. As soon as I quit programming and go back to the regular train running mode (which means I have to hit Inc or jiggle the throttle wheel slightly) the train starts in with the chuffing, hissing and clanking. Both at idle and at speed, the clanking will abate for stretches of a few seconds or so.
OK so then it may be either CV that I mentioned because the second recording I did, yes I did it of both Paragon 2 and Paragon 3/4 but the recording I did was on Background sound on the decoder which is a seperate file/sound. So you may need/want to adjust CV 198 and 137 as both of them are sounding the same to you, but are indeed for different sounds.
CSX Robert richhotrain I just don't think that you are testing correctly. Again, sorry, but there would seem to be no other conclusion to draw. It could very well could be a problem with the decoder itself, such as bad or failing eeprom memory.
It could very well could be a problem with the decoder itself, such as bad or failing eeprom memory.
richhotrainI just don't think that you are testing correctly. Again, sorry, but there would seem to be no other conclusion to draw.
@York, my man. I hear you. More companies need to hire user experience experts before releasing products. Every erg of effort that goes into UX pays off with happy, loyal and even delighted customers.
tsdI also loaded both Paragon 2 and Paragon 3/4 sound file in the software and if it is the background sound you are not liking, I did notice they are different between the 2, with the Paragon 3/4 being almost more bass/muted. Here is a link to the recording I did, as again, they are "raw" files and not MP3 or WAV that I can simply upload for you to hear. I played Paragon 2's version and Paragon 3/4 for comparison. https://recorder.google.com/share/f101ed67-960e-405b-b0d2-2b425b5327c7
crossthedog richhotrain What this thread does illustrate is the probable failure of the OP to correctly test the applicable sound CVs (sorry crossthedog, but I can reach no other conclusion). The failure to understand how to correctly apply appropriate values to CVs, a basic and essential part of DCC operation, is often the issue as you have found out in your ESU thread. Ouch! To paraphrase Donkey "You cut me, Rich, you cut me deep."
richhotrain What this thread does illustrate is the probable failure of the OP to correctly test the applicable sound CVs (sorry crossthedog, but I can reach no other conclusion). The failure to understand how to correctly apply appropriate values to CVs, a basic and essential part of DCC operation, is often the issue as you have found out in your ESU thread.
Ouch! To paraphrase Donkey "You cut me, Rich, you cut me deep."
But, as I understand it, you cannot lower the volume of that particular sound other than to lower the master volume at the same time, and the sound of the air pump changes only in proportion to the master volume. That is not supposed to be how the individual sounds work.
My gosh, I step away for ten minutes and the thread is literally in flames, and the boys are throwing punches.
richhotrainWhat this thread does illustrate is the probable failure of the OP to correctly test the applicable sound CVs (sorry crossthedog, but I can reach no other conclusion). The failure to understand how to correctly apply appropriate values to CVs, a basic and essential part of DCC operation, is often the issue as you have found out in your ESU thread.
However... and all fisticuffs and personal defense aside... I do like the idea of trying CV 198, which I have not yet tested. I will try that in a while, and even though I feel this thread has gone past its sell-by date, I will report back whether it works or fails, for the benefit of future potential posters not capable of testing sound CVs.
And yes...
tsdIs this the noise? https://recorder.google.com/share/9ad7deec-b624-485e-9d5a-55f7f5415b3e
York1The issue is that if you want to go deeper, for some of us it is very complicated and is not user friendly.
That's how it is with a lot of technology. If I want to use my PC for writing some documents, browsing some websites, reading and responding to email, it's pretty simple and user-friendly; however, if I'm writing my own programs, it's much more complicated.
With DCC, if all I want to do is give each engine an address, some simple speed adjustments, momentum adjustments, and adjust a few volumes if you have sound, then it's pretty simple. The more detail and fine-tuning you get in to; however, the more complicated it gets.
LastspikemikeThis thread illustrates nicely the main drawback to DCC as currently implemented. It's just too complicated to access the correct CV settings when you need to.
Ok, so I want to change the volume of the air pump: I look up air pump volume in the manual and see that is CV143. I select the loco on the throttle, hit program, enter 143, enter a new value for the volume, and hit enter. Yes, that's just too complicated.
In this case it didn't work. He's clearly doing the correct steps because he was able to adjust the dynamo sound. There are a few possibilities for why it didn't work: he could have misidentified the sound, it could be incorrect documentation, or it could be the decoder not responding correctly (possibly due to bad or failing EEPROM). None of these issues are caused by DCC as currently implemented.
I have an NCE system. I love it.
However ... (These are, of course, my opinions. I'm old, I have no technical or electronic background, and I can't remember my own name, let alone CV 27's settings, or was it CV 29? And don't even mention the CVs that need multiple numbers added together to get the final input numbers.)
The advantage for me of DCC was that wiring and running multiple locomotives with sound was fairly easy. I hooked up the wires and began running the trains, without worrying about blocks, turnout wiring, etc. The NCE has a horn button, a bell button, a headlight button, buttons for acceleration, etc.
The issue is that if you want to go deeper, for some of us it is very complicated and is not user friendly.
Over the past years phones, TVs, computers, my car's clock, etc., have all made great efforts to become user-friendly. Adjusting my computer is very straight forward and easy to understand. I don't need to do any math, any referring to a manual, etc.
The computer system itself is very complicated, but the makers have made the user interface so intuitive that adjustments are easy to make or change.
My locomotive, on the other hand, has a learning curve trying to adjust things to the way I want. I did it, but there are other things with the sounds and speeds that I have not adjusted, simply because I don't feel like digging into the user's manual and trying to figure out which CV setting and which function keys I need to adjust. And heaven help me if I set something, try it a while, and want to go back if I didn't write it down.
I even tried the computer system which is supposed to easily set and remember all the CV values. I could not get it to work, even after reading the manuals, consulting others on the forum, and going for online help.
I guess for some, the challenge is part of the hobby. For me, the challenge was frustrating and discouraging.
I know that to most of you, these CVs and values are second nature. To me they're not.
York1 John
That's why you should stick with DC.
Lastspikemike This thread illustrates nicely the main drawback to DCC as currently implemented. It's just too complicated to access the correct CV settings when you need to.
This thread illustrates nicely the main drawback to DCC as currently implemented. It's just too complicated to access the correct CV settings when you need to.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I conducted tests on my layout with two separate locomotives and the decoders worked as expected when changing the values of the applicable sound CVs. I didn't put a stopwatch on it, but no more than 5 minutes elapsed to test the whole series of applicable sound CVs on both locomotives.
What this thread does illustrate is the probable failure of the OP to correctly test the applicable sound CVs (sorry crossthedog, but I can reach no other conclusion). The failure to understand how to correctly apply appropriate values to CVs, a basic and essential part of DCC operation, is often the issue as you have found out in your ESU thread.
Lastspikemike Paragon 3 included rolling thunder which may explain the perceived difference. That system was designed to also operate a directionless bass woofer, sort of Dolby surround sound for locomotives. I don't think it caught on. This thread illustrates nicely the main drawback to DCC as currently implemented. It's just too complicated to access the correct CV settings when you need to. Even with Decoderpro I'm not sure the situation is improved enough for most of us but I haven't looked at that yet.
Paragon 3 included rolling thunder which may explain the perceived difference. That system was designed to also operate a directionless bass woofer, sort of Dolby surround sound for locomotives. I don't think it caught on.
Even with Decoderpro I'm not sure the situation is improved enough for most of us but I haven't looked at that yet.
You can try CV137 as well if its relating to the "background" noise. It control the startup, shutdown, and 3 background sounds volume which may have the sound you are wanting to quiet.
I also loaded both Paragon 2 and Paragon 3/4 sound file in the software and if it is the background sound you are not liking, I did notice they are different between the 2, with the Paragon 3/4 being almost more bass/muted.
Here is a link to the recording I did, as again, they are "raw" files and not MP3 or WAV that I can simply upload for you to hear. I played Paragon 2's version and Paragon 3/4 for comparison.