Brand new BLI Consolidation steam loco with Paragon 2 dcc/sound decoder. NCE Power Cab. Programming on the main.
I am able to control the overall volume by changing the value of CV 133, but when I enter a value for CV 143, which is supposed to control the air pump sound, nothing changes.
Ideas?
Thanks,
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
My first though is to switch to a program track and make sure a booster is on it. Those sound chips tack more juice to program for some reason. my other thought is maybe there is no 143 on that chip. I would be inclined to start stepping up from 134 and see were it stops.
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
NVSRR my other thought is maybe there is no 143 on that chip. I would be inclined to start stepping up from 134 and see were it stops.
my other thought is maybe there is no 143 on that chip. I would be inclined to start stepping up from 134 and see were it stops.
That said, CV 143 should be present on all Paragon 2 steam decoders.
Rich
Alton Junction
crossthedog I am able to control the overall volume by changing the value of CV 133, but when I enter a value for CV 143, which is supposed to control the air pump sound, nothing changes. Ideas?
NVSRRMy first though is to switch to a program track and make sure a booster is on it. Those sound chips tack more juice to program for some reason. my other thought is maybe there is no 143 on that chip. I would be inclined to start stepping up from 134 and see were it stops. shane
richhotrainThe default value of CV 143 is 128. Have you tried to change that value which can range from 1 to 255? Rich
Thanks for asking, guys.
richhotrainThe solution there is to put the loco on the Programming Track and call up CV 143 to see if it exists and to see the value currently in CV 143.
crossthedog richhotrain The default value of CV 143 is 128. Have you tried to change that value which can range from 1 to 255? Rich Hi Rich. I did try, yes. I set it lower, higher, zero, tried everything just to see if I could discern a change. The air pump volume only changes along with the main volume, CV133.
richhotrain The default value of CV 143 is 128. Have you tried to change that value which can range from 1 to 255? Rich
Hi Rich. I did try, yes. I set it lower, higher, zero, tried everything just to see if I could discern a change. The air pump volume only changes along with the main volume, CV133.
You should be able to change the value of CV 143 to vary the volume of the air pump, although the air pump volume should not be set higher than the Sound Unit Master Volume (CV 133) or the Maximum Volume (CV 134).
So, you need to find a way to read those CV values. Here is what NCE suggests when using the Power Cab in the absence of a Programming Track.
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205053409-How-to-view-or-change-a-CV-with-the-Power-Cab
Matt,
First off: You can read CV values with your Power Cab in Programmnmg Track (PT) mode. Programming on the Main (POM) mode does not allow reading of CVs, which I suspect is what you were using to program with.)
Also, you don't need a booster with your Power Cab. It has enough oomph in PT mode to read or program a sound decoder. You also don't need a separate programming track (like the PH Pro does) because your Power Cab is the command station/booster/throttle all-in-one. Just use your layout as the programming track.
To access PT mode:
Lastly, whenever you are initially programming a decoder, ALWAYS use PT mode. If there is an issue with the decoder (e.g. a short), you run far less a chance of frying it than in POM mode.
All the above should be in your Power Cab manual...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
richhotrainSo, you need to find a way to read those CV values. Here is what NCE suggests when using the Power Cab in the absence of a Programming Track.
tstageAll the above should be in your Power Cab manual...
Ha! My brand new BLI Paragon 2-8-0 did not come with a manual. I had to scrape one up in PDF from the internet, and for an old paper guy like me, scrolling for specific information on a tiny laptop is frustrating and ineffective. Thank you Tom for supplying this info for me.
I will give this a try at my next work break, using my layout as the programming track, and see if my Power Cab will read the value. Thanks fellas.
crossthedog richhotrain So, you need to find a way to read those CV values. Here is what NCE suggests when using the Power Cab in the absence of a Programming Track. Rich, that was my point... that I wanted to read the value of CV143 but as I mentioned, the little NCE booklet was telling me I could not do so with just the starter Power Cab. The link you sent does not talk about the absence of a programming track, as you said, so I'm confused. It very much says to use Programming Track mode. But since it's the same instructions that Tom supplied after you, maybe you meant using my layout as a programming track.
richhotrain So, you need to find a way to read those CV values. Here is what NCE suggests when using the Power Cab in the absence of a Programming Track.
Rich, that was my point... that I wanted to read the value of CV143 but as I mentioned, the little NCE booklet was telling me I could not do so with just the starter Power Cab. The link you sent does not talk about the absence of a programming track, as you said, so I'm confused. It very much says to use Programming Track mode. But since it's the same instructions that Tom supplied after you, maybe you meant using my layout as a programming track.
Let us know what values you are getting in CV 133, CV 134 and CV 143.
A program track is simple to set up. should be two sets of terminals on the base unit. One for the main. The other set for the program track. One spare piece of track. One wire to one rail. One to the other. The other ends to the terminals and you are set.
ignore the booster thing. My NCE is from 2003 back the. Sound was not only rare but a separate chip. The base units didn't have the power then to power a sound chip. I forget that has been long since changed as sound is very common now.
using your layout as a program track is what program on the main does. I do have a question. Did you remove every other loco off the layout first?
NVSRRA program track is simple to set up. should be two sets of terminals on the base unit. One for the main. The other set for the program track. One spare piece of track. One wire to one rail. One to the other. The other ends to the terminals and you are set.
Shane,
The Power Cab does not come with separate programming track terminals like the PH Pro. Since it's the command station/booster/throttle all rolled-up-into-one, it uses the PCP panel and the track connection in the 6-contact flat cable for operating & programming.
So, you can use the Power Cab for programming at your layout or at your benchtop. You'll need the PCP panel in either case. That's why I have two of those.
tstageThe Power Cab does not come with separate programming track terminals like the PH Pro.
But you can get one of those NCE auto-switch gadgets.
True. I was just addressing Shane's statement on the separate terminals since Matt was using a Power Cab rather than the PH Pro system.
richhotrainthat is what NCE means by "mode". One of the Power Cab features is to simulate a separate Programming Track by using the Programming Track mode feature.
NVSRR I do have a question. Did you remove every other loco off the layout first?
tstageSo, you can use the Power Cab for programming at your layout or at your benchtop. You'll need the PCP panel in either case. That's why I have two of those. Tom
The PCP panel is the black panel that came with your Power Cab and connects to your track:
You plug the Power Cab into the LEFT connector port using the flat 6-contact cable. That's how you power your layout. The RIGHT connector port is for an extra throttle. It's all in the Power Cab manual.
tstageThe PCP panel is the black panel that came with your Power Cab and connects to your track
I'll report back later this evening after I have a chance to get out there. Thanks for clarifying.
Here's what I learned. But first off, thanks Rich, Tom, et. al., for the info on how to read existing CV values. Very helpful. I was able to use the PT mode to query the values.
The air pump CV does not respond to any change in its value. I don't know why. The volume will decrease or increase only with the master volume (CV133). I suspect this is true for all the other sounds as well, but I didn't really test. I did check every value from CV133 on up to CV154 and they were all set to 128 except the two I was fiddling with. So my CV143 is now set to a value of "1", but it appears that it doesn't matter. I set the master to "20" and the racket is now a little less bothersome. It was driving me crazy, all that knocking.
I am assuming that the knocking was the air compressor/pump, but I don't even really know. At this point the evidence suggests two possibilities. 1) The air pump CV on my brand new product doesn't work. 2) The dreadful knocking sound is not the air pump.
[Interrupting thought: You know what I feel like? I feel like that guy in Poe's The Telltale Heart]
Possibility #2 would be simple but time-consuming to check. I could just reduce the value of every CV related to steam loco noises one by one and see if the knocking stops. But I don't really have a reason to think that because reliable people here told me that the knocking sound was the air pump, and some videos I watched identified that sound as the air pump.
Possibility #1 seems more likely, that my product is faulty. I must admit I am not very impressed with DCC so far, neither my NCE throttle -- which has that irritating jump at each speed step (both on the wheel and with the Inc button) which has been mentioned on other threads -- nor with my top-of-the-line BLI DCC loco, which frequently chokes and goes silent and dark in places where my old DC stuff runs just fine.So I would not be surprised to learn that the decoder is just not working right.
Also I'm in what is generally called "no mood", because the collection trucks missed my garbage can last week and after submitting a Missed Collection notice I was assured they would be here today, and they did not come today either. They told me on the phone, "if they don't come by 6pm, submit another request", which I tried to do, but since I have a "pending missed collection request" the website would not let me submit another. Boy are they gonna get an earful in the moring when the phones open.
Anyway, my point is, I should be nowhere near a keyboard right now, lest I rant to a degree that I will regret.
But one more thing... just yesterday THIS started happening. While I am writing a post -- THIS POST, even -- the ads on the forum change every few seconds and immediately the focus is removed from the edit box to someplace in the Andromeda galaxy, and I have to stop and put my cursor BACK into the box, so I can type for several more seconds before it happens again. Anybody else seeing that?
Alright, I'm done. In the words of Woody Allen, "someone should throw a blanket over me..."
-Disgusted in Seattle
crossthedogPossibility #2 would be simple but time-consuming to check. I could just reduce the value of every CV related to steam loco noises one by one and see if the knocking stops. But I don't really have a reason to think that because reliable people here told me that the knocking sound was the air pump, and some videos I watched identified that sound as the air pump.
In addition to being triggered randomly, you can turn on the air pump with the F4 key (at least with default settings) so you could turn it on to see if it's the same sound.
crossthedog I must admit I am not very impressed with DCC so far, neither my NCE throttle -- which has that irritating jump at each speed step (both on the wheel and with the Inc button) which has been mentioned on other threads
Are you running in 28 speed step mode (I believe that's the NCE default)? If so, that could be the cause of the "jumps" and you'll get much finer speed control in 128 speed step setting. The 28/128 button at the bottom of the hand controller switches between 28 and 128 speed steps.
crossthedogWhile I am writing a post -- THIS POST, even -- the ads on the forum change every few seconds and immediately the focus is removed from the edit box to someplace in the Andromeda galaxy, and I have to stop and put my cursor BACK into the box, so I can type for several more seconds before it happens again. Anybody else seeing that?
Yep.
I would agree that you should check to make sure that each of your locomotives are set to 128 speed steps on your Power Cab. That will allow your locomotive speed to increase & decrease in smaller incriments.
Adding some slight momentum using the momentum button on your Power Cab is another way to smooth out changes in speed. This will also produce a prototypical delay in starts and stops.
I have a couple of BLI Paragon 2 steamers, so I will try a few things later today.
CSX Robert mentions the F4 key that, when toggled, turns the air pump sound on and off. Have you tried that?
CSX RobertIn addition to being triggered randomly, you can turn on the air pump with the F4 key (at least with default settings) so you could turn it on to see if it's the same sound.
richhotrainCSX Robert mentions the F4 key that, when toggled, turns the air pump sound on and off. Have you tried that? Rich
crossthedog I don't see an F4 button.
I don't see an F4 button.
richhotrain It's the button with the 4 above it.
Rats. I was trying so hard to avoid being embarrassed again.
I'll check it out and report back later.
crossthedog richhotrain It's the button with the 4 above it. Rats. I was trying so hard to avoid being embarrassed again. I'll check it out and report back later. -Matt
Always appreciated.
OK, I went down to my layout and ran some tests on each of my two BLI HO Paragon 2 steamers - - a 4-6-2 and a 4-8-2. There are no differences in the treatment of the CVs and F-keys.
The F4 key controls the sound of the air pump. It toggles on and off with each press of the F4 key. It works this way for me, as intended.
The F8 key provides two functions - - mute and volume control. Press the F8 key once and the volume (all of it) mutes. Press the F8 again and the volume (all of it) comes back on. Double press the F8 key and the volume increases or decreases by the increment set in CV 130. It works this way for me, as intended.
Each double press of the F8 key incrementally increases or decreases the volume until either the minimum or maximum volume is reached and then reverses itself in the other direction of volume increase or decrease. It works this way for me, as intended.
CV 133 sets the Power Up Master Sound Effects volume.
CV 134 sets the Maximum Sound Effects Volume.
CV 143 controls the Air Pump Sound Effects Volume.
CV 135 to CV 152 sets individual Sound Effects volume.
You want to change the value of CV 134 to control overall volume while running the locomotive.
All of the CVs and F-keys discussed here work for me, as intended.
LastspikemikeSome steam sound decoders produce clanking sounds meant to represent mechanical noise of the driving rods, I suppose. That can sound similar, to my ears at least, to the sounds of the air pump. Both will be reciprocating sounds.
LastspikemikeSound decoders are quite sensitive to power interruptions due to quite small sections of dirty rail, for example. Before assuming it's the decoder check for that. Also sound decoders really don't like momentary shorts which DC locomotives ignore.
richhotrainThe F4 key controls the sound of the air pump. It toggles on and off with each press of the F4 key. It works this way for me, as intended.
Hey, thanks for the tip on the 28/128 button. That actually made the speed stepping smoother, as you suggested earlier.
richhotrainThe F8 key provides two functions - - mute and volume control. Press the F8 key once and the volume (all of it) mutes. Press the F8 again and the volume (all of it) comes back on.
I was setting CV 133, not CV 134. Not sure what the difference is here, but I do know that the clanking did get lower in volume as the master volume was lowered. Still a brain-numbing racket, though.
When I tested both of my Paragon 2 steam locos, I pressed the F4 button and the air pump started to sound. When I pressed the F4 button again, the air pump sound shut off.
Turn the volume up on CV 134 and CV 143 and listen closely. The air pump sound is there along with a lot of other sounds from steam loco parts. You just have to listen closely.
Here is the sound of a Westinghouse air pump, and that sounds just like what I hear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZfWxiQ3Mhw
I also watched a YouTube video review of the BLI Consolidation 2-8-0, and you can hear a similar sound.
Regarding the "volume toggle switch", I was a bit confused at first as well. Then, I realized that the reference was to the secondary function of the F8 key. It acts as both a mute and a volume control.
richhotrainHere is the sound of a Westinghouse air pump, and that sounds just like what I hear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZfWxiQ3Mhw
I had to laugh when you said turn the volume up and listen closely. That sound pangs through all the other, more gentler sounds and gives me a headache, whether I listen closely or not.
Okay, so there must be something wrong with my CV 143, because it definitely doesn't respond to the control. Were you able to turn yours down? What happens if you set yours to '1'?