SeeYou190 Martin4 When I try setting up a momentum value for any loco on my Power Cab I get prompted to type a value between 0 and 9. But whichever value I type in, nothing happens. Have you tried this with different controllers? -Kevin
Martin4 When I try setting up a momentum value for any loco on my Power Cab I get prompted to type a value between 0 and 9. But whichever value I type in, nothing happens.
Have you tried this with different controllers?
-Kevin
No, the Power Cab is the only DCC controller I have.
Martin 4
tstageYou can make that 16 years for my Power Cab, Rich. And I have zero regrets for purchasing it.
Mike
I am not a DCC user, but I have operated on layouts using the NCE system and found it easy to use and worked just fine.
Their engineers and software guys are OK in my book.
Living the dream.
do you have any experience with product developement?
LastspikemikeIt doesn't take a genius to figure out that NCE made the wrong decision whereas MRC made the correct decision about the functionality of the red emergency stop button.
"wrong decision" ... that's an opinion.
LastspikemikeIt should take what maybe 5 minutes to change the function from multiple applications to a short continuous application of the button?
you've already spent more time discussing it. you have no idea what it takes to put a software change into production
and do you expect them to retrofit all existing products ???
LastspikemikeI conclude NCE still thinks their original solution is correct and it seems obvious to me that they are wrong about that. One key that NCE is wrong is they have different designs for their several systems. Only one of these designs can be correct.
why should they redesign a product that so many people are still satisfied with and purchasing?
perhaps they felt the behavior should be different because they are different devices: one a complete system, the other just a controller.
LastspikemikeFinally, this and other threads like it prove my point. The biggest failure of the current designs of DCC systems is they are hard to use.
"prove your point" ... other's disagree.
you say that with 20/20 hindsight. perhaps if they were developing a new product today they might, might do things differently.
but considering how long the product has been in production, you have to give them credit for the forsight they had with very little DCC experience at that time.
if these products were such faliures, others would come out with "improved" products, but none have that have significantly taken market share away from NCE
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregc do you have any experience with product developement? Lastspikemike It doesn't take a genius to figure out that NCE made the wrong decision whereas MRC made the correct decision about the functionality of the red emergency stop button. "wrong decision" ... that's an opinion. Lastspikemike It should take what maybe 5 minutes to change the function from multiple applications to a short continuous application of the button? you've already spent more time discussing it. you have no idea what it takes to put a software change into production and do you expect them to retrofit all existing products ??? Lastspikemike I conclude NCE still thinks their original solution is correct and it seems obvious to me that they are wrong about that. One key that NCE is wrong is they have different designs for their several systems. Only one of these designs can be correct. why should they redesign a product that so many people are still satisfied with and purchasing? perhaps they felt the behavior should be different because they are different devices: one a complete system, the other just a controller. Lastspikemike Finally, this and other threads like it prove my point. The biggest failure of the current designs of DCC systems is they are hard to use. "prove your point" ... other's disagree. you say that with 20/20 hindsight. perhaps if they were developing a new product today they might, might do things differently. but considering how long the product has been in production, you have to give them credit for the forsight they had with very little DCC experience at that time. if these products were such faliures, others would come out with "improved" products, but none have that have significantly taken market share away from NCE.
Lastspikemike It doesn't take a genius to figure out that NCE made the wrong decision whereas MRC made the correct decision about the functionality of the red emergency stop button.
Lastspikemike It should take what maybe 5 minutes to change the function from multiple applications to a short continuous application of the button?
Lastspikemike I conclude NCE still thinks their original solution is correct and it seems obvious to me that they are wrong about that. One key that NCE is wrong is they have different designs for their several systems. Only one of these designs can be correct.
Lastspikemike Finally, this and other threads like it prove my point. The biggest failure of the current designs of DCC systems is they are hard to use.
if these products were such faliures, others would come out with "improved" products, but none have that have significantly taken market share away from NCE.
In this case, we have a forum member who does not operate a DCC powered layout and, to my knowledge, does not own a Power Cab or Pro Cab produced by NCE. So, it seems to be one man's opinion, taking shot after shot at NCE which has a broad base of satisfied users.
The E-stop triple key press feature is a creative and innovative approach to making emergency stops.
There are five aspects of ergonomics: safety, comfort, ease of use, productivity/performance, and aesthetics. In my opinion, as a satisfied user of NCE products for the past 17 years, NCE meets all five aspects.
Rich
Alton Junction
LastspikemikeNCE made the wrong decision whereas MRC made the correct decision about the functionality of the red emergency stop button.
LastspikemikeUnplugging the rogue device is fairly intuitive provided you don't also supply what looks like an emergency off button.
LastspikemikeOne key that NCE is wrong is they have different designs for their several systems.
Lastspikemikemuch of the poor ergonomics afflicting modern life results from poor software engineering.
LastspikemikeThe biggest failure of the current designs of DCC systems is they are hard to use.
LastspikemikeThe fact is that the OP here shouldn't be experiencing these difficulties. It should be really easy to change the momentum feature.
LastspikemikeAfter all, once you've used the bell and the whistle what else is really useful about DCC?
gregcdo you have any experience with product developement?
No he does not. He just likes to hear himself go blah-blah-blah because it strokes his shallow ego and makes himself seem intelligent to his own perception. He looks down on engineers and project managers and has a history of posting insults to people in these professions.
He continuously posts with a tone of expertise in subjects where he has no knowledge or experience. All of this is obvious with a simple read of any of the content of one of his posts.
Copy and paste has become the source of much of his content.
I thought this was obvious to everyone. We have been putting up with this from LSM for way too long.
I wonder what his motivation is to become the Alpha-Male in the electric train forum? What does this say about the man?
Water Level RouteIf that's the limits of your understanding of the usefulness of DCC, perhaps DCC related conversations are something you should refrain from, as it doesn't really sound like you have much of a stake in DCC and it's capabilities, which is fine. Others feel otherwise and benefit from input from others who feel similarly.
Him replying to a DCC question is like me replying to a Track Planning question.
He should excuse himself from replying to all subjects. His knowledge/skill level is novice at best. We can all see that.
I have suggested to him many times that he would enjoy this group more if he asked questions of others and shared his layout progress in Weekend Photo Fun. Instead, he just stirs up controversy with uninformed opinions, insults, and bad assumptions.
He seems to need to be the bully-expert in the room, but we all know he is in fact just nothing.
There is a term for internet personalities like his.
And then... there is the whole "I am never wrong" thing.
LastspikemikeDigitrax uses the power on/off button which also isn't any kind of emergency button. Only MRC gets the ergonomics correct: press the red button once to stop the problem locomotive. Press and hold THE SAME BUTTON to kill power to the entire layout.
Actually, most Digitrax throttles do have an emergency stop button (the Zephyr and older UT throttles do not, but all DT and newer UT throttles do). The E-stop is better than using a decoder brake function. Braking works differently between different decoders, including as noted, using different function keys, and usually still involves some momentum, while the E-stop does not.
Most older Digitrax systems and throttles also have a system wide emergency stop feature. It's usually activated by double pressing the e-stop button (the double press could be configured to stop the two locos on that throttle or the entire layout so you could decide if you wanted an operator to have that control). The layout wide e-stop is acrtually better than shutting off layout power because it's easier on the loco's drivetrain and less likely to cause derailments. It also allows lighting and sound and anything else that may be track powered to continue. Digitrax used to even sell a stationary decoder that could be configured as a system wide e-stop with an external button press - you could have E-stop buttons setup at strategic locations through the layout all feeding back to the one decoder to allow a quick and easy e-stop from anywhere without even having a throttle handy.
Digitrax has moved away from the sytem wide e-stop, likely because some decoders did not respond to it. It uses a broadcast e-stop - primary address '0' is the broadcast address and all decoders are supposed to respond to it no matter what address or address range the decoder is currently using. Even though that spec is in the standards, not just the recommended practices, some deocders apparently did not implement it. In particular, I've seen several reports of MRC sound decoders not responding to it.
It's really unfortunate that the system wide e-stop can no longer be relied upon because of some decoders not following the spec.
What is most ironic about all of this is that the MRC Prodigy series also has an Emergency Stop button which operates similarly to NCE throttles and, at a glance, the MRC throttle gives an appearance of a knockoff of the NCE throttle. That said, the MRC throttle is bulkier than the NCE throttle, making the MRC throttle less desirable, ergonomically, than the NCE throttle, as attested to by other forum members in other threads.
richhotrain What is most ironic about all of this is that the MRC Prodigy series also has an Emergency Stop button which operates similarly to NCE throttles and, at a glance, the MRC throttle gives an appearance of a knockoff of the NCE throttle. That said, the MRC throttle is bulkier than the NCE throttle, making the MRC throttle less desirable, ergonomically, than the NCE throttle, as attested to by other forum members in other threads. Rich
Hello All,
Did anyone read the fourth post?
Martin4After continuing testing I found a few minutes ago that the momentum function is working. What is confusing is that no value appears when setting it up as if nothing was happening. You have to know that a level of momentum has been applied and remenber (SIC) the value. Or set up the momentum each time you want to be sure of applyint (SIC) it.
Seems like the OP solved the problem before forty more "suggestions" were posted.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Yes, some members did read it and did take time to provide an explanation and insight to the OP about his DCC system. Unfortunately a few posts ended up wasting bandwith by denegrating a product that the writer themselves had no experience with. This has become an all-too-common theme for one particular poster.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstageYes, some members did read it and did take time to provide an explanation and insight to the OP about his DCC system. Unfortunately a few posts ended up wasting bandwith by denegrating a product that the writer themselves had no experience with. This has become an all-too-common theme for one particular poster. Tom
I really love this forum. I have learned a lot thanks to some really knowledgable people (some of which we have lost recently). Unfortunately, there have been far too many posts which become battlegrounds and honestly, I have enough of that in the "real world" without having to see it in the model railroading world.
To the OP, I hope you got your answer and stick around.
BillwizI really love this forum. I have learned a lot thanks to some really knowledgable people (some of which we have lost recently). Unfortunately, there have been far too many posts which become battlegrounds and honestly, I have enough of that in the "real world" without having to see it in the model railroading world. To the OP, I hope you got your answer and stick around.
Bill, all very well said.
We have far too few new members sticking around.
LastspikemikeNCE momentum button appears to be just a shortcut key to reset CV3 and CV4 instead of going to those CVs and entering the actual values required to make the desired changes.
LastspikemikeIncidentally, I made no claim that the ergonomics in general of any DCC throttle was good, bad or indifferent.
LastspikemikeOnly MRC gets the ergonomics correct:
LastspikemikeI made no claim that the ergonomics
LastspikemikeMRC ergonomics seem best
Lastspikemike NCE momentum button appears to be just a shortcut key to reset CV3 and CV4 instead of going to those CVs and entering the actual values required to make the desired changes.
NCE momentum button appears to be just a shortcut key to reset CV3 and CV4 instead of going to those CVs and entering the actual values required to make the desired changes.
That's exactly what it is.
The manual is not clear whether the CV values are reset and retained in the decoder or just temporarily overriden for that operating session.
If you had bothered to take the time to read through the earlier portion of the thread you would have understood that question had already been answered. Maybe try spending less time posting speculations and more time asking questions - i.e. if you really are interested in learning vs merely vocalizing and/or backpedaling from previous made statements.
"Argumentative"!
LastspikemikeIt seems from the NCE manual that their momentum shortcut button changed both acc and dec momentum concurrently and by fixed amounts. It's an odd feature.
If you want a "shortcut" to a function that changes two CVs concurrently then both values will be the same; otherwise, you would need to access CVs 3 & 4 individually and adjust the values to your preference. Odd to you, I guess. Makes logical sense to me...and it's a convenient way to quickly add or remove momentum. Adjusting them independently with the Power Cab is pretty straightforward, too.
Well, you can set it up to do that...but I guess you'd criticize it no matter what method was used...
gregc "Argumentative"!
Yep, that's true of several people on this forum.
LastspikemikeAt no time have I ever commenced a sequence of personal critiques or even comments on this or any other forum.
tstage Lastspikemike At no time have I ever commenced a sequence of personal critiques or even comments on this or any other forum.
Lastspikemike At no time have I ever commenced a sequence of personal critiques or even comments on this or any other forum.
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
Yesterday is History.
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present.
You know, watching this thread derail reminds me of a saying.
"The higher the monkey climbs the tree, the more it shows it's tail."
Lastspikemikeunless you have an alternative view there is little point in posting anything.
a different perspective, yes; an absolute, no!
LastspikemikeIt doesn't take a genius to figure out that NCE made the wrong decision
LastspikemikeWhat's puzzling is why NCE doesn't just rewrite a tiny bit of software to correct such an obvious deficiency.
LastspikemikeI conclude NCE still thinks their original solution is correct and it seems obvious to me that they are wrong about that
LastspikemikeI observe that companies centered on software frequently seem to have no idea how to properly design the human interface.
LastspikemikeFinally, this and other threads like it prove my point.
LastspikemikeThe fact is that the OP here shouldn't be experiencing these difficulties.
it gets tiresome
i'd appreciate hearing your perspective ... but not implying my perspective is wrong
LastspikemikeAs I've said before, unless you have an alternative view there is little point in posting anything.
Sharing, encouragement, praise, experiences, advice, stories, help, answers, support, condolence, sympathy, information, fellowship...
I guess all those are "little points" in Spike-World.
Lastspikemike... As I've said before, unless you have an alternative view there is little point in posting anything.
As I've said before, unless you have an alternative view there is little point in posting anything.
This was a necessary orientation to your work as a lawyer. You haven't managed to leave it behind in a forum where a lot of opinion AND facts are exchanged, parsed, and negotiated. Try maybe being less transactional about your offerings here, and less dogmatic.
Lastspikemike...At no time have I ever commenced a sequence of personal critiques or even comments on this or any other forum.
I know it's difficult for you to see, but you do that very thing each time you post an absolute statement (which I cautioned you about in my very first reply to you many months ago) and continue argumentation in the face of all proferred evidence contradicting your dicta.
Lastspikemike ...It is true that many people become uncomfortable when their world view is questioned. I am not one of those.
...It is true that many people become uncomfortable when their world view is questioned. I am not one of those.
The rest of us know, without having to wink at one another, how ironic your self-claim is.
LastspikemikeChimps are pretty smart and no human can ride a bicycle backwards.
Try again, maestro...
Hopefully that doesn't make you uncomfortable with your world view.
LastspikemikePointing out that someone is wrong is not a personal attack.
there's a difference between saying "you're wrong" and"i think you're wrong"