Overmod maxman Changing from DC to DCC, or the other direction, was accomplished by repositioning the plug. Do you mean a 'jumper', like a little plastic block that fits over a couple of fixed pins on the board?
maxman Changing from DC to DCC, or the other direction, was accomplished by repositioning the plug.
Do you mean a 'jumper', like a little plastic block that fits over a couple of fixed pins on the board?
The Atlas locos he's discussing had jumpers, it was two, two pin jumpers joined together to operate in tandem. There were six pins on the decoder, two went to the track pickups, two went to the motor output of the decoder, and two went to the motor. In the "DCC" position the jumpers tied the motor pins to the decoder output and it operated just like any normal decoder equipped locomotive. When the jumper was placed in the "analog" position the motor was tied to the track pickups. In this position the motor operated off DC straight from the track like any regular non-DCC locomotive, but the lighting functions were still powered by the decoder.
'Jumper' acquired another meaning in the age of personal computers, where cheap option switching on motherboards and many hard drives were done with those little square blocks fitting over pins protruding from the device -- often using the same pitch as the pins in multiple-pin connectors.
I agree with you that any such device that is a block with pins should be called a plug or perhaps 'jumper plug'. Even if it has only two (shorted) pins and did exactly what the 'jumpers' did, except in a socket or holes in the PCB.
Occasionally you would find jumpers that were shorted only to reset something (e.g. by grounding charge) and rather than wangle a screwdriver blade in there, a block would be connected over pins fir the necessary time. Sometimes the jumpers would be stored on only one pin, or 'sideways' from the live direction of a couple of adjacent pins, to be quickly available if needed -- I never did figure out how to store them so I'd have one in the field when I needed one.
LastspikemikeReplacement cost is not value, just btw.
Completely irrelevant.
LastspikemikeWhat is level for the seller to do with a return depends on the sale contract. Most such sale contracts expressly permit repair, substitution or refund of price. The customer voluntarily returns the item purchased anyway so the vendor doesn't ever steal anything by refunding the price. Theft requures a wrongful taking in the first place. Technically, there are three categories: conversion, detinue and trespass to personal property. Only the last can be theft, strictly speaking.
We weren't discussing what the seller legally could or could not do, or what the legal definition of theft is, but merely the spirit of the transaction.
maxman
Changing from DC to DCC, or the other direction, was accomplished by repositioning the plug.
As I recall, there was indeed a plastic rectangular thing that had 8 pins attached. Also as I remember, there was a spot on what we would now call a light board that had 12 holes in it. To go from DC to DCC you moved the 8 pin plastic thingy from one set of holes over slightly and "plugged" it into the adjacent set of holes on the "goes into". (Thinking about this, maybe there was only 3 pins on the plug and 6 sockets on the board...it has been awhile.)
I'm an old guy, so to me anything that has pins attached is a "plug" that goes into the "goes into". I also remember that there was another manufacturer that used little copper pieces to do the same thing.
Also, my definition of a "jumper" is either a wire or wires that are temporarily installed around something that has failed in order to get something else to work (like a battery), or to program something (like a turnout decoder) and then get removed, or what they call the individual found floating under the Washington Bridge.
maxmanChanging from DC to DCC, or the other direction, was accomplished by repositioning the plug.
If I remember correctly, some of the early Atlas dual mode diesel locomotives came with a plug, but there was not a separate decoder involved. Changing from DC to DCC, or the other direction, was accomplished by repositioning the plug.
doctorwayneBachmann steam locomotives that I've bought came with a circuit board in the tender, which I think was for lighting, but there may have also been a plug-in for a DCC decoder
Mike
Lastspikemike Of course I understand how a dummy plug works. Leaving the decoder in place makes it easy to restore DCC function when you realize how good modern DCC is. In case you wish to resell the locomotive. Or, add DCC to your layout.
Of course I understand how a dummy plug works. Leaving the decoder in place makes it easy to restore DCC function when you realize how good modern DCC is.
In case you wish to resell the locomotive. Or, add DCC to your layout.
I don't resell locos after I buy them, and I already know how good DCC is and is not, and I'm not adding DCC to my layout.....
You still don't get it Spike.
Wayne, Email sent!
Sheldon
All of the ten Bachmann steam locomotives that I've bought came with a circuit board in the tender, which I think was for lighting, but there may have also been a plug-in for a DCC decoder. I removed all of them, as I have no need for lights in my locomotives - I don't do "night" running, and in my layout's late '30s era, headlights were not required to be on unless it was night-time or inclement weather...situations that I do not model.
The added room in the tenders allowed me to make coal bunkers that were actually useable to be filled with loose "coal" (added weight), and also with custom-cast lead weights in any of the other freed-up spaces.This also eliminated the need for multi-pin plugs between loco and tender, which often caused tender derailments, and were an added nuiscance if a loco required servicing.I replaced them with two flexible wires with smaller and easier to plug-in or disconnect ends.
Eliminating the lights also freed-up space in the smokebox for added weight, and I was able to fit even more weights by replacing the plastic air reservoirs with lead-filled brass tubing, and found room in the cab and under the cab roof for more weight, too.
All of them are now good pullers and very easy to service, too.
If someone is in need of such parts, they're available for the cost of the postage....
(photo will enlarge if clicked-upon)
First reply gets them all. Send me a PM with your full mailing address and/or your e-mail address (I'll copy it, then remove it to keep your info secure, as I cannot reply through the current PM system.
Wayne
Edit: Just a note to let everyone know, the circuit boards have found a new home.
I've never heard of a loco coming with a decoder installed that has a dummy plug that keeps it from operating. You don't unplug the dummy plug from the decoder, you unplug the decoder from the PC board, or unwire it if its a PC board shaped decoder.
In the past few years, most all locomotives are migrating to being made with a DCC Ready lightboard installed. The DCC Ready versions have a dummy plug, and the DCC Sound versions have a 21 pin decoder instaled, and simply two wires attached to the speaker tabs.
Obviously to convert a $250 DCC Sound loco to a $150 DC (DCC Ready) loco would be to replace the DCC decoder with a dummy plug and leave the speaker in place. Takes about 20 seconds after you remove the shell.
Sell the sound decoder on ebay for about $60-$70
Other locos that have DCC installed or old school DCC Sound would likely have a PC shaped decoder "hardwired" in place. It could be replaced with a DC/DCC ready PC Board.
IMO, that would be the easiest way. Unwire the decoder and replace it with a similarly shaped PC board.
Of course, if a loco comes equipped with a decoder that is simply plugged into the pc board, (usually a used loco with an aftermarket decoder installed) replace the decoder with a dummy plug.
- Douglas
Lastspikemike CSX Robert n012944 It does not seem "unfair". It does seem that you are rear hurt for BLI not catering to those that have not moved on with the times. It's seems to be a theme with certain people on this site that are stuck in the dc world. There is nothing wrong with it, however it is disingenuous to say that someone "stole" something they gave you a full refund for. If you had something that only cost you $100 but would cost $200 to replace, and someone took it without your permission and left you $100, I guess you would think that was "fair." Personally, I would say they stole it. Replacement cost is not value, just btw. What is level for the seller to do with a return depends on the sale contract. Most such sale contracts expressly permit repair, substitution or refund of price. The customer voluntarily returns the item purchased anyway so the vendor doesn't ever steal anything by refunding the price. Theft requures a wrongful taking in the first place. Technically, there are three categories: conversion, detinue and trespass to personal property. Only the last can be theft, strictly speaking. As for taking out a decoder just to run a locomotive equipped for DCC that seems an inferior solution to just running it under DCC power unless you have no choice. Fitting a dummy plug would always make more sense than removing the decoder unless you have no choice. I can't imagine why you'd ever have no choice.
CSX Robert n012944 It does not seem "unfair". It does seem that you are rear hurt for BLI not catering to those that have not moved on with the times. It's seems to be a theme with certain people on this site that are stuck in the dc world. There is nothing wrong with it, however it is disingenuous to say that someone "stole" something they gave you a full refund for. If you had something that only cost you $100 but would cost $200 to replace, and someone took it without your permission and left you $100, I guess you would think that was "fair." Personally, I would say they stole it.
n012944 It does not seem "unfair". It does seem that you are rear hurt for BLI not catering to those that have not moved on with the times. It's seems to be a theme with certain people on this site that are stuck in the dc world. There is nothing wrong with it, however it is disingenuous to say that someone "stole" something they gave you a full refund for.
If you had something that only cost you $100 but would cost $200 to replace, and someone took it without your permission and left you $100, I guess you would think that was "fair." Personally, I would say they stole it.
Replacement cost is not value, just btw.
What is level for the seller to do with a return depends on the sale contract. Most such sale contracts expressly permit repair, substitution or refund of price. The customer voluntarily returns the item purchased anyway so the vendor doesn't ever steal anything by refunding the price. Theft requures a wrongful taking in the first place. Technically, there are three categories: conversion, detinue and trespass to personal property. Only the last can be theft, strictly speaking.
As for taking out a decoder just to run a locomotive equipped for DCC that seems an inferior solution to just running it under DCC power unless you have no choice. Fitting a dummy plug would always make more sense than removing the decoder unless you have no choice. I can't imagine why you'd ever have no choice.
Do you really have no understanding of the fact that if you unplug a decoder and plug in a dummy plug, you have COMPLETELY removed the decoder from the electrical circuits of the locomotive, even if you physically leave it in the loco?
I have dozens of locos that came with DCC decoders pluged into 8 pin sockets that now have dummy plugs in those 8 pin sockets.
And the decoders have all found new homes via Ebay.
For nearly two decades, Bachmann and others included dummy plugs with their DCC locos to aid in decoder removal and return to DC operation. BLI has a different view....... I cut those out and rewire them and throw the decoders in the trash.
Spike, you still don't get it.
But I don't care, I took the Grandson to the big tractor event this weekend.
He drove the tractor in the parade of power.
This is why I never went into detail about the situation before.
I thought I was fair in my overall assessment. BLI probably think that they treated me fairly, but I feel like my property was taken without my consent or permission.
Anyway, it is all a misunderstanding between two parties, and I now know that BLI does not want my business in the future.
I think this thread has run its coarse, which is a shame, becuase the OP brought up a topic that needs discussion.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
BigDaddy This thread has run it's course...
This thread has run it's course...
Yep, about three and a half pages ago!
richhotrain n012944 richhotrain Geez, why not just let it go. Kevin got screwed by BLI. Let's face it. Rich Sure he did... LOL, you edited faster than I could reply. Too bad, the deleted part was pretty funny. Rich
n012944 richhotrain Geez, why not just let it go. Kevin got screwed by BLI. Let's face it. Rich Sure he did...
richhotrain Geez, why not just let it go. Kevin got screwed by BLI. Let's face it. Rich
Geez, why not just let it go. Kevin got screwed by BLI. Let's face it.
Rich
Sure he did...
LOL, you edited faster than I could reply. Too bad, the deleted part was pretty funny.
It was funny, but I thought better if it. Sitting in Vegas, time difference is important.
An "expensive model collector"
Alton Junction
BigDaddy This thread has run it's course. I belong to a fourm that has an emoji of beating a dead horse.
This thread has run it's course. I belong to a fourm that has an emoji of beating a dead horse.
Again if that was the case, what did the police say? If someone stole a $100 from me there would be a police report.
If anyone was thinking of sending me a BLI for my birthday, please don't
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
n012944It does not seem "unfair". It does seem that you are rear hurt for BLI not catering to those that have not moved on with the times. It's seems to be a theme with certain people on this site that are stuck in the dc world. There is nothing wrong with it, however it is disingenuous to say that someone "stole" something they gave you a full refund for.
Lastspikemike...This solution works better than removing the decoder...
One more time - it does not always work better.
SeeYou190 n012944 I would not expect Dodge to tell me how to defect emission controls on MY Viper. It is illegal to disable, tamper, or render innefective a mandated emission control device. Apples and oranges here.
n012944 I would not expect Dodge to tell me how to defect emission controls on MY Viper.
It is illegal to disable, tamper, or render innefective a mandated emission control device. Apples and oranges here.
To race a car off road such provisons do not apply. Apples to apples.
[/quote]
n012944 That is a different story. What did the police say?
SeeYou190 When I bought my N&W Class A BLI 2-6-6-4, I got it at a very good price because I pre-ordered it from my favorite hobby shop. The decoder stopped working in "DC mode", so I contacted BLI for help, told them I wanted to remove the decoder, and then they got snarky with me. I sent them the locomotive, at my expense, for a "free" factory repair. Then they refunded me my purchase price and kept the locomotive. Now to replace a locomotive (that there was nothing wrong with other than a failed and unwanted decoder), I need to spend almost twice as much, and I am still out the $30.00 I spent to ship the original one to them. "Stole" is certainly too strong a word, but that is how it feels. I was deceived and ripped-off, and that was dishonest on the part of BLI. To make a comparrison to your Viper... what if the radio stopped working, so you asked Chrysler for wiring information so you could have a better aftermarket sound system installed that you would prefer anyway. They say "just bring it in to us and we will fix it free of charge." Then they keep your Viper, refund you what you paid (which was far below market value because you are a savvy consumer) against your wishes, and then say they will gladly sell you a new Viper for twice what you were just refunded for the perfectly good one you owned. See... it seems very unfair and dishonest, and it is a bad business practice that punishes the consumer. They could have just said "no, we will not help you do that", and that would have been fine. I would have figured it out myself. Instead, they got me to send the locomotive back under a false promise, and now I do not have it, and spending more than the $250.00 I originally spent just to get the same thing sits very wrong with me. It is OK if my point of view does not sound right to you. I do hope the further clarification explains my feelings on the matter. -Kevin
When I bought my N&W Class A BLI 2-6-6-4, I got it at a very good price because I pre-ordered it from my favorite hobby shop.
The decoder stopped working in "DC mode", so I contacted BLI for help, told them I wanted to remove the decoder, and then they got snarky with me.
I sent them the locomotive, at my expense, for a "free" factory repair. Then they refunded me my purchase price and kept the locomotive. Now to replace a locomotive (that there was nothing wrong with other than a failed and unwanted decoder), I need to spend almost twice as much, and I am still out the $30.00 I spent to ship the original one to them.
"Stole" is certainly too strong a word, but that is how it feels. I was deceived and ripped-off, and that was dishonest on the part of BLI.
To make a comparrison to your Viper... what if the radio stopped working, so you asked Chrysler for wiring information so you could have a better aftermarket sound system installed that you would prefer anyway. They say "just bring it in to us and we will fix it free of charge."
Then they keep your Viper, refund you what you paid (which was far below market value because you are a savvy consumer) against your wishes, and then say they will gladly sell you a new Viper for twice what you were just refunded for the perfectly good one you owned.
See... it seems very unfair and dishonest, and it is a bad business practice that punishes the consumer.
They could have just said "no, we will not help you do that", and that would have been fine. I would have figured it out myself. Instead, they got me to send the locomotive back under a false promise, and now I do not have it, and spending more than the $250.00 I originally spent just to get the same thing sits very wrong with me.
It is OK if my point of view does not sound right to you. I do hope the further clarification explains my feelings on the matter.
It does not seem "unfair". It does seem that you are rear hurt for BLI not catering to those that have not moved on with the times. It's seems to be a theme with certain people on this site that are stuck in the dc world. There is nothing wrong with it, however it is disingenuous to say that someone "stole" something they gave you a full refund for.
1971_Z28What is being discussed in this topic?
How to take a locomotive that was built with DCC (digital command control) and convert it to DC (direct current) control. DCC is the newer of these two control systems, but many of us prefer the older DC system. There are a lot of personal reasons for choosing one operating system over the other.
Some new locomotive models are not offered in a DC version, so they must be converted. That, or accept the limitations of a dual mode decoder.
What is being discussed in this topic?
I do not talk about this matter often, and I have never given this much detail before. The situation is really a misunderstanding and an inability to meet expectations.
For some reason BLI did not make the repair, and I am sure that from their point of view refunding my money was the fair way to resolve to matter.
I hate to speak badly about manufacturers, so I have mostly been very vague about what happened with the 2-6-6-4.
This is my one and only experience with BLI, so it by no means should be taken as an accurate sample of how they do business.
Kevin, you sound pretty justified in your disgust for BLI to me.
n012944I would not expect Dodge to tell me how to defect emission controls on MY Viper.
n012944That is a different story. What did the police say?