I found these motors on eBay. Pretty fast delivery, placed orders on May 19, received on 28.After testing them out I’m a bit unsure of their operation. As compared to the Canon EN 22 both have very close to the same power at different RPM. The Canon is a 12 volt motor 6800 RPM 1.2 Amps Locked Rotor and I’m unsure of the actual operating voltage of the new motors. Both state a voltage range with a listed RPM at 12 volts.My findings were very close to the stated specs at 12 volts. As far as using them in an Athearn frame the RPM is lower then the Athearn at 12,000 RPM so high speed will be lower using these motors but I don’t think anyone runs them at full speed. About 80% or around scale 85MPH top speed.Both motors have much more torque than the stock Athearn motors at half the current.Here are the eBay links:https://www.ebay.com/itm/324468278963https://www.ebay.com/itm/383836500396?var=652189815716Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Thanks for sharing Mel. In my experience, the slower the better when it comes to motor speed. Your readings of the locked motor amps are interesting - I would have guessed a lower rating.
Simon
I figure any can motor locked rotor over 1 amp at 12 volts is pretty good for HO locomotives. The RPM is a bit low for Athearn BB diesels but they should work pretty good for multiple engine consists using the same motors.I have an Athearn SD-40 frame set up for testing and both motors did well except for speed matching against the Mabuchi FK280SA 14200, plenty of power. With the Cary E7 metal body on the SD-40 frame (31 oz) and the new motors the draw bar at wheel slip is the same as the FK280, 8.6 oz.Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
Mel
Thank you for your research and keeping this topic alive. I have some of the FP280KN 16V motors on order so it was nice to hear you give them a thumbs up! Even though the rpm's are down from the Mabuchi FK-280SA 14200 at any given voltage, the increased torque over the Athearn motors I want to replace is what we need in our trains. Looking forward to these motors arriving.
I read somewhere that the metal case around the FK280KN motor is removable giving it dimensions nearly spot on to those of the Mabuchi motors. Is this true?
I did find a source that claimed to have the Mabuchi motor available and ordered a few. Not a peep since. Fortunately, I payed using PayPal so I will need to cancel that charge.
Hornblower
Sorry for the delay, today was an old age day spent with my doctors.I haven’t done much with to two new motors but my preference would be with the Mehano motor, it checked out super close to the Canon EN22 motor and I’ve had really good luck with all my EN22 motors.This morning I got out a Rivarossi Cab Forward with a Faulhaber 2224 and did some comparisons with the Mehano motor and I had forgotten just how much better the 2224SR was compared to the EN22. The 2224SR has 1.8 amps locked rotor and power to burn.I decided it was time to redo the wiring on my 4294, it was one of my first remotor tasks back in 2010. I have six Faulhaber 2224SR motors in my Rivarossi articulateds. Motorman sold them to me for $32 each which was a steel back in 2010. For a single motor in an articulated locomotive the 2224SR can’t be beat! A pair of Canon EN22 or Mabuchi SF266SA motors have more power than the 2224SR and run smoother than a single 2224SR motor. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
hornblower Mel Thank you for your research and keeping this topic alive. I have some of the FP280KN 16V motors on order so it was nice to hear you give them a thumbs up! Even though the rpm's are down from the Mabuchi FK-280SA 14200 at any given voltage, the increased torque over the Athearn motors I want to replace is what we need in our trains. Looking forward to these motors arriving. I read somewhere that the metal case around the FK280KN motor is removable giving it dimensions nearly spot on to those of the Mabuchi motors. Is this true? I did find a source that claimed to have the Mabuchi motor available and ordered a few. Not a peep since. Fortunately, I payed using PayPal so I will need to cancel that charge.
I received my order of FP280-KN motors and have already installed three of them. Close inspection of the motors show that they were made by S.M.C. Motors. The motors have a high build quality and are almost ready to install. Although they can be made to fit an Athearn Blue Box frame as delivered (just requires a little grinding of a couple of spots in the original motor mount area), I prefer to remove the magnetic shields from the motor. It is likely that these shields are intended to stop electronic motor noise from interfering with nearby stereo speakers in automotive installations. Though my testing was not very scientific, there seems to be no difference in the motor performance with or without the shield.
With the shield removed, the SMC motor has identical dimensions to the Mabuchi FK280-SA 14200 motor. Since I was swapping out motors in complete locos with decoders and keep alive's already installed, I did not want to perform grinding on the chassis. Thus, I removed the shields. This can be done by cutting through the base of the Bow Tie shaped tab holding the shield tightly around the motor using a Dremel tool, hacksaw or razor saw. Once the tab is removed, a screwdriver can be inserted into the space the tab previously occupied and twisted to slightly open up the shield. With the shield no longer tight around the motor, the motor can slide out either end of the shield.
I remove the flywheels from the Athearn motor and adapt them to the 2 mm shafts of the new motor using 1/8" (.125") styrene tube. I prefer to ream out the inner diameter of the tubing to just under 2 mm so I don't damage the new motor trying to force the flywheels onto the shafts like I did with one of my Mabuchi motors. The result is just enough of an interference fit that the flywheels can be installed and adjusted with just a little careful twisting. There is also enough of an interference fit that the flywheels will stay put until you choose to remove them.
At this point, one only needs to solder the orange and gray decoder wires to the motor solder tabs (the positive solder tab is the one farthest from the S.M.C.Motor embossing), add styrene shims between the Athearn frame and the motor to match the driveline height, and glue the motor in place once everything is aligned.
So far, the S.M.C. Motor FP280-KN seems to be every bit as good as the Mabuchi FK280-SA 14200. Good torque and low current draw means these locos now respond immediately in Speed Step 1 even with the starting voltage CV set at a value of only 4. I ran two of the re-motored locos in consist to pull an eight car train around my layout in Speed Step 5 (less than 10 smph) and they ran smoothly and quietly over the entire layout, including going up and down the two 22" radius and 2.62% grade helix structures. No stops, no hesitations, not even slowing down when going up the grades. I think the S.M.C. Motor FP280-KN will work just fine for re-motoring Athearn Blue Box locos!
I came to the same conclusion on the FP280-KN, I haven’t removed any of the outer coverings as of yet.The RPM is slightly less than the Mabuchi but the torque is very good. The Mabuchi runs at 11800 RPM at 12 volts and the SMC motor is 9800 RPM at 12 volts. Locked rotor is good at 1.3amps.At under $3.50 plus S&H it’s a good replacement motor!Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
Hi there,
Are you using two motors back to back to replace BB motors? I just typed in a search and got a single ended mabuchi type motor at
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/263071035991?hash=item3d40417257:g:5q4AAOSw6KJe08GH
Just curious
TIA
Cheers from Australia
Trevor
My thing is experimenting with everything. I put a pair of 266 motors back to back in a Athearn BB. The only thing wrong with the 266 motors is the RPM, 6800 RPM doesn’t cut the mustard in a BB Athearn that uses a 12000 RPM factory motor.If you can find a Mabuchi FK-280SA 14200 motor, its dual shaft 12300 RPM.Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
xdfordAre you using two motors back to back to replace BB motors?
There are a LOT of single shaft DC motors available as well as a lot of double shaft motors in the 130 case size. The Mabuchi FK280-SA 14200 is a double shaft "280" case size motor. After a long period of being the "Go-To" motor for replacing the Athearn motor in blue box locos, it seemingly disappeared from the market overnight!
Fortunately, Mel found us an alternative motor in the S.M.C. Motor model FP280-KN dual shaft motor. Although the stated rpm rating is lower than that of the Mabuchi motor, it seems to have torque to burn. My comparisons of my locos with the Mabuchi motors with those I recently installed the S.M.C. motor show similar speeds and pulling power. I would even say that the torque and initial response of the S.M.C. powered locos is slightly better than those with the Mabuchi motors.
Hi Mel do you think the FP280KN 16V motors would work the dame with first run Globe models-athearn geared power chassis with two geared tower These chassis came out in 1956 or so befor the Gi-F drive came out and some came out again with plastic geared setup with plastic tower Here some pic of them .I have 20 of these to repower
I do not know how to upload pic on this site .You can pm me for picture if needed
I've got an older Athearn BB S-12 in GN colors that needed to be updated. I'd installed a salvaged Digitrax from another TSU2 upgrade but it ran terribly and spent all of it's time sitting by the engine house as scenery. Doing my research I found this thread, studied it and ordered a pair of the S.M.C. FP280-KN motors. The price was right and the delivery was surprisingly fast. After they came I also made a 40 mile round trip on a Sunday afternood to get the tubing. I purchased a pack of the Evergreen #224 .125 OD tubing. I was fired up.
Initially I started out by opening up an S-12/SW-7 frame with a Dremel to accept the motor with the shield as delivered. As usual it looked like I was going to have some underhood clearance problems with the Tsunami2 PNP decoder so I removed the shield as described and used sheet styrene to build a motor mount insert to fill the overwidth space. This let me firmly align the motor and hold it in place within the frame with a strip of Pliobond yet still remove the motor from the engine frame if needed. I wasn't sure at the time but removability will come in handy now.
hornblower I remove the flywheels from the Athearn motor and adapt them to the 2 mm shafts of the new motor using 1/8" (.125") styrene tube. I prefer to ream out the inner diameter of the tubing to just under 2 mm so I don't damage the new motor trying to force the flywheels onto the shafts like I did with one of my Mabuchi motors. The result is just enough of an interference fit that the flywheels can be installed and adjusted with just a little careful twisting. There is also enough of an interference fit that the flywheels will stay put until you choose to remove them.
After removing the flywheel assembly from the old motor I started doing some test fitting. I'm not sure what tubing hornblower used but I was disappointed with the fit of the Evergreen #224. The .125 OD was a somewhat loose fit in the flywheel but I used a little low grade adhesive to snug that up. I wasn't about to use any permanent glue yet. The tubing ID was an acceptably snug fit for a #47 drill bit, .0785, but a looser fit on the (as measured) .0765 OD output shaft. I tried the low grade adhesive again but after setup and test runs a derailment in a switch (I knew I needed to regauge the wheels) stopped the switcher and evidently the flywheel to motor connections failed. Now I have to tear it all apart again
[tried to insert an as installed photo but no joy]
This time I'm going to try using some Pliobond as a gap filler. I've had good luck with it in the past and it's not superglue permanent if I have to take it apart again. I'd also note that I had to reverse the motor wiring to the decoder after testing. Orange to + on the motor case but ....
Up until the connection failure I was very pleased with the performance of the FP280-KN motor. Teamed with the Tsunami2 PNP Alco and an ESU-50321 speaker it's become a smooth running, satisfying and fun to run little switcher that's a great operating addition to my GN fleet rather than just scenery. If I run across another lonely BB at a swap meet I won't be afraid to do this again, after all I do have an extra FP280-KN motor.
Thanks for the help guys! It's appreciated!
NEW INFO
After seeing this old post I decided to do a search for the Mabuchi FK280SA 14200 motor. I found a source that says they have them in stock for $1.99, S&H $25. I ordered 10, total $44.90.
https://www.panirchiv.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18266
DO NOT ORDER FROM PANIRCHIV !!!!!! 4/9/22Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
ClydeSDaleAfter removing the flywheel assembly from the old motor I started doing some test fitting. I'm not sure what tubing hornblower used but I was disappointed with the fit of the Evergreen #224. The .125 OD was a somewhat loose fit in the flywheel but I used a little low grade adhesive to snug that up. I wasn't about to use any permanent glue yet. The tubing ID was an acceptably snug fit for a #47 drill bit, .0785, but a looser fit on the (as measured) .0765 OD output shaft. I tried the low grade adhesive again but after setup and test runs a derailment in a switch (I knew I needed to regauge the wheels) stopped the switcher and evidently the flywheel to motor connections failed. Now I have to tear it all apart again
Sorry my fix didn't work for you. I used soe old 1/8" styrene tube from my styrene collection. I have no idea whether it was made by Evergreen, Plastruct or others. The outer dimension fits snugly into the Athearn flywheels while I found that I needed to ream out the inside dimension slightly to just under 2mm so I wouldn't have to force it onto the motor shafts. Worked great for me!
I guess in this age of less material for more money, the styrene manufacturers are following the trend started by plywood companies. Plywood is now 1/32" thinner than it used to be: 3/4" is now 23/32", 5/8" is now 19/32", 1/2" is now 15/32" and so on. The styrene tube you bought from Evergreen might just be a bit smaller (and thinner walled) than described, too.
No apologies necessary! This thread and your well written post pointed the way for me to start on a project I wasn't at all sure of and in my opinion it came out well. That's the joy of forums that freely share information between participants. Agreed on the more for less concept!
As a retired agricultural engineer who did a lot of prototyping I know the value of building for repairability and modification. The repair has been completed and I'm letting the Pliobond cure completely on the shafts. The motor in it's styrene cradle lifted out to one side letting me disengage the slotted couplings, the PNP circuit board (secured with "fun tack") lifted off the styrene mounting frame glued atop the motor. I removed and replaced the flywheels without the use of a soldering iron.
I'm looking forward to finishing up the decoder programming with DecoderPro and enjoying my sweet running S-12 on my switching layout!
Roger
Note for Mel: Not sure if that stated amount included any taxes but for $41.79 you could have gotten 21 motors and free shipping. $25 S&H is outrageous! But then who needs 21 motors???
Mel are you comparing these to the Genesis motors? Typically larger can = more torque/lower RPM
Small can = less torque/higher RPM
If you regear it, it comes out in the wash. But higher speed motors tends to win out at low speeds. That's because of stall friction and lower rotational inertia. But higher torque is harder to stop once moving. Try to keep the torque tube straight into the socket. You bend a U socket/ U Joint too much and it creates speed oscillations as it rotates.Either way, if regeared, the difference should be minimal.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I don’t have an Athearn Genesis to compare to.I use Athearn SD40-2 (BB) frames for my E7s, I use metal Cary E7 bodies. The Mel E7s weigh in at 32oz each and have over ten ounces of drawbar each. A pair of E7s with the Mabuchi FK280SA 14200 motors draw a bit over 600ma pulling 13 over weighted passenger cars up my 7½% helix.With a pair of 32oz locomotives each with 10oz+ of pulling power there is no wheel slip.Mel
My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
RR_Mel NEW INFO After seeing this old post I decided to do a search for the Mabuchi FK280SA 14200 motor. I found a source that says they have them in stock for $1.99, S&H $25. I ordered 10, total $44.90. https://www.panirchiv.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18266Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
After seeing this old post I decided to do a search for the Mabuchi FK280SA 14200 motor. I found a source that says they have them in stock for $1.99, S&H $25. I ordered 10, total $44.90. https://www.panirchiv.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18266Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
I tried that guys and at check out the $25 S&H was still there.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
RR_Mel I tried that guys and at check out the $25 S&H was still there.Mel
I tried that guys and at check out the $25 S&H was still there.Mel
Not to be a smart *** when I tried it at 21 motors the bottom line put me into free shipping.
When I ordered 2 of the FP280-KNs I ended up with one extra thinking if I screwed the first one up I'd have a spare and the shipping was the same so....... 21? Thanks, no.
When I tried it again it said out of stock??????I just hope I get the 10 I ordered.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
DO NOT ORDER FROM PINIRCHIV!
The outfit I ordered the motors from is a SCAM, Ignore my link to Pinirchiv!!!!!I have put in a refund request to the PayPal Resolution Center.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 last July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
How does 10 motors at $1.99 apiece come to $44 and change? It would be cheaper as he said to order 21 to have gotten the 'free shipping' and then... well, sold me a few for, say, $1.99 apiece sent in a flat-rate box...
What are the details of the 'scam'? Did they send garbage masquerading as the product ordered, like the low-price name-brand locomotive scams?
Nothing received and nobody home, emails returned to sender no contact info. The final bill was $51 for 10 motors.
EDIT:What makes it worse is I don’t need any motors. All my locomotives are remotored and I have a few spares. I guess I just wanted to see if they were really available.
Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, CaliforniaGrowing old is a bummer, aging is definitely not for wimps.
That stinks. I hope PayPal helps you but I wouldn't hold my breath. They had given partial refunds to me in the past. eBay has a better track record for refunds.
There needs to be more punishment for scammers. I say bring back public hangings.
Pete.
There have always been crooks. One thing about e-bay, haven't had a problem with no refund yet, including one which scamed me by sending something else, not even related to item and they knew it, they even paid for shipping back.
Hi Mel. I don't know how Paypal works for you, but in my case, it is paid through my credit card. I would try to get a refund through the card if Paypal fails. But I can't believe Paypal would tolerate having a business partner that is a fraud.
Update 4-20-22
Got a full refund from PayPal. PayPal is a good outfit.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, CaliforniaGrowing old is a bummer, aging is definitely not for wimps.
I'm not sure if this was the same vender but I tried to order Mabuchi motors from a vendor who sounded similar and got the same response -- nothing. PayPal refunded my money rather promptly.
I instead ordered a bunch of the SMC can motors and have enjoyed GREAT success remotoring ALL of my Athearn BB F7 locos. With NCE decoders and my own Keep-Alive circuits installed, I can get any pair of these locos to pull long trains around my entire 18' by 19' double deck layout at around 5 scale miles an hour without a hiccup. Very pleased with the SMC motors!