Is 22 gauge stranded wire the choice for dcc hook ups? If not what is. Thanks
I use #20 solid bell wire from a big box store. Solid is easier to work with. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
I used 22 gauge stranded wire for feeders on my prior layout, and it worked out just fine.
On my new layout, 20 gauge solid wire was recommended, so I used it. My only issue with 20 gauge solid wire is that it is a little too large if you solder it up against the outside of the rail.
Rich
Alton Junction
Hello All,
ndbprr...dcc hook ups?
Are you talking about track feeders from the bus, the wire for the bus, or are you talking about wiring decoders?
The more specific you can be helps the folks on these forums to accurately answer your questions(s).
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I solder the #20 feeders to the under side of the rails in the gap between the ties, not seen after ballasting. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Look for Alarm Wire, 22 gauge, solid copper. It's everywhere, and can be purchased by the foot/yard at the local hardware stores. Strip off the plastic outer sheath insulator, and then you have four color coded wires to use. These would be from a bus or some other terminal to individual rails.
If you are talking about a main distribution bus, and the amperage totals less than 15 amps, use 14 gauge household wall wiring, the kind that goes to light switches and wall sockets.
RR_Mel I solder the #20 feeders to the under side of the rails in the gap between the ties, not seen after ballasting.
I solder the #20 feeders to the under side of the rails in the gap between the ties, not seen after ballasting.
richhotrain RR_Mel I solder the #20 feeders to the under side of the rails in the gap between the ties, not seen after ballasting. Mel, do you do that before installing the track? Rich
Mel, do you do that before installing the track?
Yes, I solder the wire with it coming from the center of the track. If it’s a bit long it is easily clipped flush with the outside of the rail. When the track is anchored in place I drill a 1/16” hole between the rails and pull the wire flush, the wire will be covered with ballast. For drilling the hole I use a 1/16 bit with a long shank, 6” long and will go through the road base, plywood and even a 2” x 4” framing if needed. When I’m wiring accessories and the 6” bit is too short I have a longer bit, 12”.Many years ago I bought a set if 12” long drill bits 1/16” to 3/8”, they came in a wooded case, that tells you how old they are. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Yes, I solder the wire with it coming from the center of the track. If it’s a bit long it is easily clipped flush with the outside of the rail. When the track is anchored in place I drill a 1/16” hole between the rails and pull the wire flush, the wire will be covered with ballast.
[/quote]Interesting, thanks, Mel. On my new layout, I installed the track, then wired the feeders to the outside of the rails, bending the wire 90 degrees and tucking into the rails.
I’ve always wired my track that way. When I was wiring my first HO track way back in 1951 my Dad ask me why I didn’t hide the wires by soldering them to the bottom instead of the side? Made sense so I went with his suggestion.He was a 027 guy through and through and hated my “tiny junk”. He said it would never stay on the track. In 1951 I hand laid all my track because that was all there was back then. Rails were 3 for a dime and Atlas fiber ties were on a 25’ roll and I had to make cuts in the fiber tie strip to form a curve.I proved to him that I could hand lay my track and never had derails. He never apologized but never said anything negative after he saw it running. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
My original post us about wiring a decoder.
Unless you have a lot of room #22 is too big. I use #30 for my decoders. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
ndbprrMy original post us about wiring a decoder.
Assuming this is your original post, the online shops that sell decoders, streamlined backshop, tonys trains, litchfield station and Yankee dabler all sell a pack of color coded 30ga wire. 30 ga is the right size and sticking to the proper colors is immensely helpful.
One of the forum electrical gurus recommend this soldering station
You've been here a while. It's Randy's recommendation
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Thank you for your clarification.
Digitrax sells a set of 9 colors of 30 ga wire in 10-foot lengths per color.
Decoder Wire
A handy way to store this wire is sewing machine bobbins. These are available at most Walmart and Target in the sewing department.
They are small spools about an inch in diameter available in clear plastic or metal. I prefer the clear plastic ones.
A 10-foot piece of 30 ga wire will fit on each spool. They have holes in the sides so you can tuck the end of the wire in them so the wire won't unspool.
You will also need a quality soldering station and solder.
I recommend the Hakko FX-888D soldering station.
The soldering tip is grounded so it won't damage the electrical components in the decoder.
Yes, it's pricy but it's an investment well worth the cost. I got mine at Tequipment.
For solder Kester brand is recommended by several decoder manufacturers. Part #2463370007.
I got mine at Kimco. Again, it's more expensive than other solders but a single 1-lb roll will last a lifetime.
You will also need shrinkwrap tubing to insulate the soldered wire joints. This comes in many sizes and colors.
Rather than getting a boxed assortment, I recommend: 3/64", 1/16" and 3/32" in black and red.
Inexpensive embossing tools (heat shrink guns) are readily available to set the heat shrink tubing.
Just like anything else the expense of quality tools will outstrip the cost of the parts being installed.
But once you have made the investment in good tools they should last a lifetime of use.
ndbprr My original post us about wiring a decoder.
Typical decoder wire is 30 to 32 gauge.
Signal wire can be as small as 36 gauge.
One thing about using wire as thin as 36: if it is copper or silver, the amount of diffusion into a solder joint may be significant. You should use a copper-loaded solder, or something like Cardas quad-eutectic, if you go to extremely fine wire.
Overmod One thing about using wire as thin as 36: if it is copper or silver, the amount of diffusion into a solder joint may be significant. You should use a copper-loaded solder, or something like Cardas quad-eutectic, if you go to extremely fine wire.
I use a lot of Tomar Industries signals, both searchlights and dwarfs as well as crossing signals. The wires are very thin, even fragile, so I extend them by soldering the ends to thicker wire, say 22 gauge stranded, and then apply heat shrink tubing over the joint for reinforcement.
jjdamnitFor solder Kester brand is recommended by several decoder manufacturers. Part #2463370007. I got mine at Kimco. Again, it's more expensive than other solders but a single 1-lb roll will last a lifetime.
My rolls of Kester solder have dates on them. I assume it is a manufacturing date since the date had passed when I received the rolls.
Is there a reason for the date? Does solder age-out or go bad?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Solder doesn't go bad, but the flux core can become less active over time.
I've been using a spool I got when I got my Fast Tracks jigs to try making my own turnouts. I've been here almost 8 years, 5 1/2 years in my previous place where I had my old layout, and I probably was in the place before that at least 6 months after I bought the solder. I recently built up one of my circuits with it and it soldered fine. There's probably 3/4 lb left on this 1 pound spool - at the price of solder, I'm not throwing this out to get fresh since it still works fine.
Can't say I've had any problem with solder uptake into the fine wires used for decoders. To get solder to penetrate like that along the length of the wire, the heat would have to be on long enough to melt a good chunk of the insulation back as well. It's not Litz wire that needs to remain flexible or risk breakage - properly planned, all the joints and their shrink wrap should come out fairly close, making a convenient point to tie down to the loco chassis with a piece of Kapton tape.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker Solder doesn't go bad
That is what I was thinking.
I guess there are people out there building fine electronics that probably consider it important to either rotate their solder stock or use the freshest product they have on hand.
SeeYou190 jjdamnit For solder Kester brand is recommended by several decoder manufacturers. Part #2463370007. I got mine at Kimco. Again, it's more expensive than other solders but a single 1-lb roll will last a lifetime. My rolls of Kester solder have dates on them. I assume it is a manufacturing date since the date had passed when I received the rolls. Is there a reason for the date? Does solder age-out or go bad? -Kevin
jjdamnit For solder Kester brand is recommended by several decoder manufacturers. Part #2463370007. I got mine at Kimco. Again, it's more expensive than other solders but a single 1-lb roll will last a lifetime.
rrinkerCan't say I've had any problem with solder uptake into the fine wires used for decoders.
I confess I was a fan of using a higher-melt solder to 'tin' twisted-stranded or Litz into a solid, more easily bendable end, then solder that with lower-melting eutectic. You could easily use silver or copper-bearing alloys for this purpose while maintaining ease of final wire secure ment to pads, or splicing.
Overmod rrinker Can't say I've had any problem with solder uptake into the fine wires used for decoders. Just to be clear, the thing I was talking about is actual atomic diffusion of copper mass into the solder alloy, not 'wicking' or capillary attraction as in solder braid or Litz wire.
rrinker Can't say I've had any problem with solder uptake into the fine wires used for decoders.
Just to be clear, the thing I was talking about is actual atomic diffusion of copper mass into the solder alloy, not 'wicking' or capillary attraction as in solder braid or Litz wire.
richhotrainNow you lost me.
Me too, very very lost.
I guess I have just been lucky with all the successful soldering I have executed for decades. I obviously have no idea what I am doing.
SeeYou190 richhotrain Now you lost me. I guess I have just been lucky with all the successful soldering I have executed for decades. I obviously have no idea what I am doing.
richhotrain Now you lost me.
If you have an issue, take it up with those who understand the potential importance of including an appropriate percentage of copper or silver in solder alloy. Don't pretend it's just my tweak opinion -- that won't wash here.
Overmod, I presume that you were directing you reply to Kevin. But, the reason that I said that you lost me was your earlier reply to Randy in which you stated,
"Just to be clear, the thing I was talking about is actual atomic diffusion of copper mass into the solder alloy, not 'wicking' or capillary attraction as in solder braid or Litz wire.
I did not understand the reference to "actual atomic diffusion of copper mass..."
I still don't.
richhotrainI did not understand the reference to "actual atomic diffusion of copper mass..." I still don't.
An acknowledged problem with soldering silver and silverplate with tin/lead alloys is that some of the silver preferentially dissolves in the metal of the solder join, and it was to preclude this that extra 'silver' is in silver solder (meaning 'solder silversmiths use when working with fabricating silver').
Meanwhile, it was and is common knowledge that copper has a similar issue when soldered, to the extent that fine lead wires can become fragile or break after being subjected to being soldered. While this would be of relatively little concern to most 'normal' hobby soldering, the subject at hand is very fine gauge copper (specifically 36-gauge, which in Vicryl is terrifyingly fine and in wire no less so) or the thin strands making up Litz wire. I personally find the rationale for Cardas quad eutectic (which is to add necessary percentage of both elemental copper and silver to the alloy) reasonable in addressing this potential issue; in fact, I'd find it beneficial for a number of heavier 'fine' gauges, too.
I'm not going to do a Mike on how the copper or silver goes from the wire into the solder; the verifiable TL;DR is that when it does it can damage thin connections.
I sort of do and I still don;t think this is even remotely a concern for DCC and model railroading. Now if you were assembling modules that need to be space rated for service on the ISS or in satellites - ok, it's a lot more important than you might think.
As far as expiringing - the solder paste used for surface mount assembly - that stuff DOES rapidly expire once opened up. Even properly stored, once a tube of that is opened, it goes bad in just a few days at best. But that's mainly do to the components of it that make it a paste and the flux are what go bad, the grains of solder alloy within the mixture don't go bad.
There is no need to over-complicate what is a routine task and an easy skill to learn... soldering in relation to electric model trains.
This is the kind of thing that can discourage a courious newcomer, or cause analysis paralysis in some experienced modelers.
I have read hundreds of examples of how-to articles in Model-Railroader and other information sources about soldering, and there was never a mention of copper bearing anti gravity neutralized proton imported flux impregnated net carbon neutral dilithium tribaloy solder.
I would place a healthy wager than 99.9% of soldering jobs in our hobby are perfectly successful without any considerations for just how complicated it could be made out to be, if that is what brings you pleasure.