Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Proto 2000 gp9 getting to the truck gear

697 views
13 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2015
  • 6,368 posts
Proto 2000 gp9 getting to the truck gear
Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, January 27, 2020 7:41 PM

I've done this before, but I don't remember how.  Hoseeker doesn't show the bottom plate on the truck.

Recently I've been messing around with Stewart locos and that piece has to be taken off by prying from above. 

This is one with an 8 pin plug.  My previous conversion was a pre DCC model so I'm going to have some questions about that too.  But for now, when place on DC, nothing happens.  It was advertised as non running bad gears, but a guy who seems to have a ton of them, all with the same problem.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 27,321 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, January 27, 2020 8:55 PM

 If they are the pre-8 pin plug ones, there is a series where traces had to be cut for DCC. If they ever had DCC and those traces were cut, the motor will get no power from the rails. I'd test by using some jumer wires and touching right to the motor terminals.

 Cracked gears don't usually jam all motion, and even if it did, the motor would hum or buzz when it jammed. 

                               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 18,774 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, January 27, 2020 10:16 PM

There should be a thin plate on the flat bottom of the truck that comes off easily with a small screwdriver.  The axles and gears just drop out and can be easily replaced.

It's probably a good idea to put some LaBelle grease in before closing it up again.

I have a couple of old DC engines like this.  I hard wired in the decoders.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 9,461 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Monday, January 27, 2020 11:57 PM

MisterBeasley
There should be a thin plate on the flat bottom of the truck that comes off easily with a small screwdriver.

 Proto_gear-4 by Edmund, on Flickr

MisterBeasley
It's probably a good idea to put some LaBelle grease in before closing it up again.

 Proto_gear-7 by Edmund, on Flickr

Yes!

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • 6,368 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 3:24 AM

rrinker
Cracked gears don't usually jam all motion, and even if it did, the motor would hum or buzz when it jammed.

First of all, thanks Ed.  The bottom plate wasn't coming off unless I exerted some lateral force where the tabs were.  Thanks for the pic.

It has the 8 pin plug, circuit board dated 7/3/98.  Pilot error on the test track, Confusedthere was no power so there was no hum.   The seller has good feedback so I think once the motor sees real DC, things will be OK.

Back to the conversion.  I have only hard wired pre plug locos.  I was expecting the decoder to plug into the circuit board, but the CB has male pins.  Do I pull the circuit board and just plug it into the female plug?  Looks like I do on the TCS site

Is the motor isolated from the frame on these later Proto models?  Led's, yes I know, the only way to go

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 15,000 posts
Posted by tstage on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 6:18 AM

I think only the Proto 2000 S1/S2s had the isolation issue, Henry.  You could always ohm it to double-check though...

Tom

http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 18,544 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 6:39 AM

tstage

I think only the Proto 2000 S1/S2s had the isolation issue, Henry.  You could always ohm it to double-check though...

Tom 

I cannot recall for sure, but if my memory serves me correctly, some of the very early Proto 2000 models were not fully isolated for "DCC Ready" purposes.  Could be wrong, though.

As for those Proto 2000 S1/S2/S3 switchers, the motors were intended to be fully isolated from the frame, but the infamous 'orange wire' connected the lower brush to the frame. This in and of itself would not short the loco and fry the decoder, but a derailment could cause a short that would fry the decoder.

Don't ask me how I know.  Super Angry

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 27,321 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:18 AM

 Way back when, I looked over one of those boards that has the "cut here for DCC" marks. I traced out the circuit. Made no sense to me how they wired it, so I took the safe way out and removed the factory board and hard wired a decoder. 

 It's easy enough to check for isolation when you have it that far apart - the only side that could possibly be a problem is the bottom motor wire, so check continuity between there and the frame. If it's open, you're good to go. Pretty sure they are isolated. 

                                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 9,461 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 8:47 AM

Those gearcase covers can be a bit fussy, Henry. I always fear I'm going to break one but, so far, never have. I use a very fine flat blade screw driver. You have to unsnap one then hold a little upward pressure on it while unseating the other clip. Takes a little dexterity Whistling

tstage
I think only the Proto 2000 S1/S2s had the isolation issue, Henry.

I believe that's the case. I've never run into a GP, SD or FA series from Life-Like that had the motor brushes contacting the frame. I usually solder a new wire onto the bottom brush holder and, in a belt-and-suspenders kind of way, place a layer of Kapton tape over it to be sure. The motor sits in rubber mounts very similar to the Athearn method.

I scrap the lighting board.

 DCC_PCBa by Edmund, on Flickr

The GP-20 board did have an odd setup where a bronze contact strip that engaged the top brush holder was part of the PC board :

 DCC_PCB-gp20a by Edmund, on Flickr

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • 6,368 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 5:54 PM

That's a mess of circuit boards Ed.  Yes, I was afraid if I just kept prying straight up, the bottom cover would crack. 

I'm awaiting wheel gears.  Will report back about whether it runs or not and stall current.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • 144 posts
Posted by OldEngineman on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 10:28 PM

Big Daddy wrote: "I have only hard wired pre plug locos.  I was expecting the decoder to plug into the circuit board, but the CB has male pins."

At least some of the Proto2000 (Lifelike) engines have a (for lack of a better term) "reverse 8-pin wiring harness" with female connectors, to which all the wires attach. This plugs down "over" the male pins on the light board, which is mounted to the weight with screws.

This is a Proto2000 GP30, but the connection scheme is the same:

You can see the small decoder that will replace the light board (at the bottom of the pic)

The wiring harness lifts off, and you can see the male pins on the light board:

Remove the light board and the decoder plugs into the harness:

And here it is with headlights before the shell goes back on:

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 27,321 posts
Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, January 29, 2020 7:13 AM

 I just take all that out on those versions and hardwire the decoder. The wires are all right there for you. If doing sound, that little 8 pin board that remains wastes a significant amount of space. 

                                        --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • 6,368 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, January 31, 2020 3:49 PM

Put in new Walthers wheels and gears, set it on the test track (DC) and one gear tower buzzed, the other didn't move.

The big long brass screws under the fuel tank did not fall out, but the weight was easily removeable.   There was lots of oil where the trucks meet the frame but the grease around the worm and bearing was brown.

I took off the gear covers and pulled the worms, cleaned them and the bearings.  Both trucks turned easily without being attached.  I attached the rear truck and it turned with the flywheel.

I attached the front truck and when I turn the flywheel, the bearings torqued out of the gear tower and those wheels didn't want to move.  The bearings did not spin on the shaft.  I had to worry them (like a dog worring a bone) and a little alcohol and now things move again.

Does the motor mount pull out by pulling the motor upward or do I have to push up from the bottom of the chassis?  I might need to put some kapton tape underneath.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 9,461 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Friday, January 31, 2020 4:56 PM

BigDaddy
Does the motor mount pull out by pulling the motor upward or do I have to push up from the bottom of the chassis?

I just rocked back and forth and the motor pulled right out. I have heard some folks have the rubber nubs break off but that has never happened to me.

 LL_motor-mount1 by Edmund, on Flickr

I had some new, still in shrink-wrap, Life-Like engines where the bearings were stuck solidly to the input shaft. The grease reacted with the bronze oilite bearings and formed a lacquer that was stronger than super glue! I used lacquer thinner to free these up.

 Proto_gear-5 by Edmund, on Flickr

 Proto_gear-3 by Edmund, on Flickr

BigDaddy
I might need to put some kapton tape underneath.

You "shouldnt" have to put any Kapton on the motor bottom. There's plenty of space between the rubber mounts and the frame.

 LL_motor-mount1a by Edmund, on Flickr

My photos are of the FA but the geeps are similar.

Regards, Ed

 

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!