I just spotted in the Circuitron offerings they have a slide in type rack for loose Circuit Boards and it looks like it mounts underneath the benchwork. I am going to try that because I am a notorious clutz around fragile items like this.
Here is the link, part number 9506. If it doesn't work I can still use it for other boards. But I think I can get it to fit.
http://www.traintekllc.com/signaling/circuitron/
A program track booster shouldn;t get very warm if at all. A circuit breaker, it depends on the trip current setting and how much current actually is flowing through it. Some do caution you to add heat sinks to the switching transistors if you are using them anywhere near their rated current capacity (because the rating for the transistors only applies with adequate heat sinking - in free air with only the built in tab the current rating is much less). This shouldn;t be an issue with anyone using HO or smaller scales as you would typically never set the trip point anywhere near the maximum. I wouldn;t wrap the board in heat shrink, or put it in a totally sealed enclosure, but something surrounding the board with some air space that also has vent holes or slots should be just fine.
Upside-down under the benchwork should be pretty safe (unless you forget and drill down from the top...), unless someone comes along and reverse gravity, you're not going to drop bits of metal (like cut off ends of wire) or blobs of solder, or spill a glass of water UP onto the board.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Do those circuit boards, regardless of purpose, throw off any significant amount of heat? Because if they do, it would not be a good idea to hide them under a building or something along those lines. My two circuit breakers are located under my layout simply because I did not want to brush up against them and do something bad to them.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
CMStPnP richhotrain ahh, OK, good. Yep, that settles it. If you install the PTB-100, your problems with the Programming Track will end. Bought the Soundtraxx PTB-100 at the local Hobby store, was surprised they had it in stock, I just need to wire it in. Quick question on that, is it normal these days to have that exposed circuit board hanging out in the open? Isn't there like a housing or something it can be placed in? I guess I can hide it under a building or in scenery. Seems a little odd to sell it this way.
richhotrain ahh, OK, good. Yep, that settles it. If you install the PTB-100, your problems with the Programming Track will end.
Bought the Soundtraxx PTB-100 at the local Hobby store, was surprised they had it in stock, I just need to wire it in.
Quick question on that, is it normal these days to have that exposed circuit board hanging out in the open? Isn't there like a housing or something it can be placed in? I guess I can hide it under a building or in scenery. Seems a little odd to sell it this way.
Rich
Alton Junction
Since typically these things are mounted up under the layout out of the way, it's not too critical to cover up the board. Most circuit breaker and block detector systems are similarly open boards like that. If it's mounted up top, a cover of some sort wouldn't be a bad idea, to keep stray wires from valling on it or other tools and materials that could cause damage.
richhotrainahh, OK, good. Yep, that settles it. If you install the PTB-100, your problems with the Programming Track will end.
CMStPnP richhotrain C'mon back and confirm for us whether you have the PowerCab or the ProCab (PH-Pro). Yeah the manual is unclear as well, it just says POWER PRO on the front, the cab says PROCAB.........you would think they would be consistent on the damn name throughout. So I went to the packing list from the shipping box (lol). It says PH PRO R DCC System with Radio............so that should settle it. :)
richhotrain C'mon back and confirm for us whether you have the PowerCab or the ProCab (PH-Pro).
Yeah the manual is unclear as well, it just says POWER PRO on the front, the cab says PROCAB.........you would think they would be consistent on the damn name throughout. So I went to the packing list from the shipping box (lol).
It says PH PRO R DCC System with Radio............so that should settle it. :)
CMStPnP,
FYI: Power Pro and PH-Pro are one and the same and the name for your NCE DCC system. ProCab is the name of the handheld throttle that you use with the Power Pro/PH-Pro.
And, FWIW, a Power Cab can be used with the Power Pro/PH-Pro as an additional ProCab throttle.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
richhotrainC'mon back and confirm for us whether you have the PowerCab or the ProCab (PH-Pro).
Yeah the manual is unclear as well, it just says POWER PRO on the front, the cab says PROCAB.........you would think they would be consistent on the **** name throughout. So I went to the packing list from the shipping box (lol).
Just a different design. I've never needed a program track booster for any brand sound decoder I've used so far, which includes QSI in the first Broadway Limited and Atlas models, an old Soundtraxx DSD-LC, Loksound 3.5, and Loksound Select. And a Tsunami. But the difference is I am using a Digitrax PR3 as a programmer. I was able to program these decoders with my Zephyr as well, no booster, no use of the Blast Mode. There are various combinations of systems and decoders that work better than others, Plus for reasons I am not able to explain, what works for one person doesn;t always work for the next.
Something almost certain to fail is havine a keep alive attached to the decoder, at least the 2 wire type. The capacitor will effectively 'suck up' the program track signal. The more expensive 3 wire types for specific decoders like Lenz and ESU use that extra wire to keep the cap disabled in certain circumstances.
RR Baron DigitalGriffin I agree with Randy. Every sound decoder needs to have a power booster on the programming track output for the NCE PH Pro. Update - SoundTraxx Tsunami2 and Econami decoder do not require a programming track booster. SoundTraxx Tsunami does require a programming track booster. RR Baron
DigitalGriffin I agree with Randy. Every sound decoder needs to have a power booster on the programming track output for the NCE PH Pro.
I agree with Randy. Every sound decoder needs to have a power booster on the programming track output for the NCE PH Pro.
Update - SoundTraxx Tsunami2 and Econami decoder do not require a programming track booster.
SoundTraxx Tsunami does require a programming track booster.
RR Baron
CMStPnP richhotrain Where exactly in your manual did you read that your system is OK and does not require a Programming Track Booster? You may have missed my reply to your initial post, but your best option is to purchase a Soundtraxx PTB-100 Programming Track Booster for around $50. It could have been the NEC website vs the manual but I think it was warning agaist a direct connection to the Cab...........Here is the warning again in bold concerning the PROCAB. I did see your comment about Soundtraxx and I will go that route. In the link below, that is an exact picture of my hand held cab so I am sure that is the way to go since NEC recommends it as well. https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204543065-Programming-sound-equipped-locos-programming-track-booster-PTB-100
richhotrain Where exactly in your manual did you read that your system is OK and does not require a Programming Track Booster? You may have missed my reply to your initial post, but your best option is to purchase a Soundtraxx PTB-100 Programming Track Booster for around $50.
It could have been the NEC website vs the manual but I think it was warning agaist a direct connection to the Cab...........Here is the warning again in bold concerning the PROCAB. I did see your comment about Soundtraxx and I will go that route. In the link below, that is an exact picture of my hand held cab so I am sure that is the way to go since NEC recommends it as well.
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204543065-Programming-sound-equipped-locos-programming-track-booster-PTB-100
Do you have the PowerCab or the ProCab (PH-Pro)?
The warning in bold letters in that link refers to the PowerCab and cautions that you should not connect a Programming Track Booster of any kind to the PowerCab.
But since you have the 5 amp wireless DCC system, we are operating on the assumption that you have the ProCab, the PH-Pro.
That link from NCE is about adding a Programming Track Booster to the ProCab.
Here is the pertinent language:
The NCE 5 amp systems were designed prior to the widespread use of sound equipped locomotives. The higher inrush of current on sound decoders causes the programming track to think that a short circuit is detected. To help eliminate this issue you can modify your command station with this article or add a programming track booster.
Soundtraxx PTB-100 http://www.soundtraxx.com/access/ptb100.php
*** note DO NOT connect a programming track booster of any kind to an NCE Powercab. The programming track mode of the Powercab is a newer design that incorporates the ability to program sound equipped decoders.
C'mon back and confirm for us whether you have the PowerCab or the ProCab (PH-Pro).
CMStPnPWhy did I get a 5 AMP system for such a small layout? Couple of reasons, todays HO Scale trains are drawing more power from the rails. I have a full Superliner Set that is lighted, BLI CZ set that is lighted, will be using Bachmans EOT flasher, etc.
That would indeed be true for a passenger train with lighted cars but not so for a freight train - i.e. unless you are running a string of BLI stock cars that are all clucking and mooing at the same time. Newer, efficient locomotive motors have 1/2 to a 1/4 of the current draw as older, less efficient locomotives. Even locomotives equipped with sound decoders may only draw a 1/2A each.
Old Fat Robert I must be missing something in this discussion. I have a portable programming track powered by the original 2 amp wall wart from the NCE starter set I purchased a number of years ago. Using just that power source and the throttle that came with the starter set I have programmed a number of sound equipped units from various mfgs without any trouble. The list includes BLI Paragon, Athearn, Walthers and a couple of others. What am I not getting? Old Fat Robert
I must be missing something in this discussion. I have a portable programming track powered by the original 2 amp wall wart from the NCE starter set I purchased a number of years ago. Using just that power source and the throttle that came with the starter set I have programmed a number of sound equipped units from various mfgs without any trouble. The list includes BLI Paragon, Athearn, Walthers and a couple of others. What am I not getting?
Old Fat Robert
Robert,
Unlike the PH-Pro, the Power Cab has never needed a programming track booster and has enough oomph to program sound decoders - like the ones you mentioned above. And, given that it's portable, you can program locomotives from your bench or your layout.
richhotrainWhere exactly in your manual did you read that your system is OK and does not require a Programming Track Booster? You may have missed my reply to your initial post, but your best option is to purchase a Soundtraxx PTB-100 Programming Track Booster for around $50.
richhotrainYou made a smart decision to start out with the NCE PH-Pro 5 amp wireless system for exactly the reasons that you cited. My view is that it is always better to start out with a full featured DCC system than to buy a starter system only to have to upgrade it later.
Thanks, had input from the consultants and asked which they thought would be better for a DCC novice and they liked the NEC help desk and website....
They also recommended I switch from Atlas to Bachman track because they said I probably would have less an issue with DCC plus the trackplan they did was with Bachman. I like Atlas better so I might use Bachman for turnouts (will do some testing before that decision) but majority of track will be Atlas. They recommended sectional track vs flex track on the helix as well, stated it would be far less frustrating to use sectional track with the limited install space and I agreed with them there.
Here is their website:
http://www.twtrainworx.com/
They did excellent work on the benchwork and they attend most of HO Scale rail expos.......their favorite is the annual one in West Allis, WI at State Fair Park. Very saavy at HO Layouts and very busy group of people. Usually they lay the track and do the whole nine yards but I told them I only needed the benchwork and can do the rest myself. They took measurements of the room, floated a few track plans and took the one I approved. Built the entire benchwork offsite in a modular fashion. They had it setup in the bedroom in about 2 hours. So very fast with assembly and not much disruption.
richg1998 NCE must have changed things. Some years ago, maybe ten, my local club got the NCE five amp power pro. We ran a pair of wires from the booster program terminals to a program track at the end of a yard ladder and had no issues with programing any decoders including SoundTraxx. Rich
NCE must have changed things. Some years ago, maybe ten, my local club got the NCE five amp power pro. We ran a pair of wires from the booster program terminals to a program track at the end of a yard ladder and had no issues with programing any decoders including SoundTraxx.
But, my first sound equipped locomotive had a QSI Quantum decoder, and the Programming Track could not read CVs. The problem increased when my next sound decoder was a Soundtraxx Tsunami. So, I purchased and installed a PTB-100 Programming Track Booster, and my problems ended with the Programming Track.
CMStPnP NCE mentions in the manual with the older systems you will need a booster for the program track but stated my system should be OK. Though in the same manual they stated the Amps to the Programming Track are far less than the Amps to the layout track (seperate outlets). Really need to get an Amp meter to see what is going on. However before I buy the booster I am going to try a better wiring option to make sure.
NCE mentions in the manual with the older systems you will need a booster for the program track but stated my system should be OK. Though in the same manual they stated the Amps to the Programming Track are far less than the Amps to the layout track (seperate outlets). Really need to get an Amp meter to see what is going on. However before I buy the booster I am going to try a better wiring option to make sure.
You may have missed my reply to your initial post, but your best option is to purchase a Soundtraxx PTB-100 Programming Track Booster for around $50.
Here is an NCE article that discusses this entire issue including an alternative to purchasing a Programming Track Booster. The alternative seems too complicated for me, so I would be content to purchase a Programming Track Booster.
CMStPnP Why did I get a 5 AMP system for such a small layout? Couple of reasons, todays HO Scale trains are drawing more power from the rails. I have a full Superliner Set that is lighted, BLI CZ set that is lighted, will be using Bachmans EOT flasher, etc. Second reason is this is probably not my last train layout and the benchwork was specifically engineered so that I could break down and move it to a new house without massive destruction of scenary and/or track dislocation. So this track layout could form the core of a future track layout that is larger.
Why did I get a 5 AMP system for such a small layout? Couple of reasons, todays HO Scale trains are drawing more power from the rails. I have a full Superliner Set that is lighted, BLI CZ set that is lighted, will be using Bachmans EOT flasher, etc. Second reason is this is probably not my last train layout and the benchwork was specifically engineered so that I could break down and move it to a new house without massive destruction of scenary and/or track dislocation. So this track layout could form the core of a future track layout that is larger.
CMStPnPAlso noticed the start speed step on the NCE of the Intermountain F7 is definitely and noticeably a lot lower than the Athearn GP-7.
Hi CMStPnP:
You should be able to program your locomotives to all having the same running characteristics. You will have to play with speed tables to do that and I am not knowledgeable enough to give you instructions on how to do that. However, I will suggest that if you are going to install your own decoders in the future you should consider using Loksound Selects. They have a self programming capability that automatically adjusts the locomotive to start moving very slowly at speed step 1 and rewrites the speed tables to suit the particular motor.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
It might be the decoders with sound cards changed or draw more power. I definitely noticed a difference in volume between the sound cards between the different models or else my DCC has the volume cranked up somewhere. On the proto 2000 (Walthers) engines I have to raise my voice over the noise. Athearn is about right volume wise (Tsunami).
Also noticed the start speed step on the NCE of the Intermountain F7 is definitely and noticeably a lot lower than the Athearn GP-7. Not sure if that is different gearing or one draws more power than the other or both. I suspect you can program around that for multi-unit lashups.
bearmanIt does not sound like you have a big layout...why do you need a booster? The Power Pro is a 5 amp system
In fact the consultants that built the benchwork being model railroaders themselves suggested I punch a hole through the drywall into bedroom #4 and use part of that space for the layout as well as punch a hole into the large walkin closet for staging yard space (or remove the closet door). That was a little too ambitious for me at this point and I am happy with what I have so far.
Due to expansive soils, houses in Dallas do not have basements and are constructed on a slab. So either need to find a new house after retirement with a large media room OR move to a state where they construct basements. By the time I retire my home will be worth close to or over $500k. I paid $148k to build it new and it is at $300k now. I want a cheaper home for retirement so will probably move a little further out from the city or to Austin or San Antonio.
CMStPnP5. On the feeder wires.........oh what a pain the arse, are you kidding? Back in the 1980's had a MRC power pack and it was enough to power Athearn locomotives aorund a small basement layout with no feeder wires........what happened?
Nothing happened. I had a large island style layout, it filled a 11' x 16' room with just enough space to get around the outside. I ran it on an MRC 2500, and it was fine, until rail joiners started to fail, and I wanted to expand my cab control, so I started adding feeders.
Adding the feeders give you reliable power to every area of your layout, and if your running sound, you'll want that, or you will notice the difference.
Simple as that.
During Christmas, I have a temporary layout I set up, DC, about a 6'x8' area, all sectional Bachmann EZ Track, and I have feeders to 4 places, around the layout. It made a big difference.
Mike.
My You Tube
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Sorry, I should have clarified...A Program Track Booster. Not a FULL booster. And I wouldn't worry about putting a feeder at every track junction. Everyone has different opinions. The general rule of thumb is about every 3 feet. But if you have long stretches of solid rail that are soldered at the joiners you can go further. The only exception to this rule is where there are reversing sections. Reversing sections need to have their rails blocks within 1/10th volt, so it's wise to put feeders at the end of each reversing section block.As others allude, Randy is the most reliable source for the majority of things. And if he's not available, me or others will pipe in.I personally rewired a very large portion of DC club that existed from the 1950's to DCC using NCE. I was their trouble shooter. I've seen every problem there was and learned how to step around them. Although NCE isn't my forte any more. (More of a digitrax man)BTW: It is possible to use a digitrax booster with an NCE if you know the bus wires. BUT I would NOT recommend it. Both digitrax and NCE have rail syncs on their bus IIRC. This is the DCC signal without the boosted voltage/current. And that's how most boosters work. They are just feeding off the sync signal.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
It's the test track that's 10 pieces of sectional track.
Don't give the man buyers' remorse. Model Railroading is not about need, it's about lust.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Program track booster - the program track power from the PowerPro command station is not enough for sound decoders like Tsunami and QSI to read and write.
It does not sound like you have a big layout...why do you need a booster? The Power Pro is a 5 amp system