So I am somewhat ignorant in DCC operation and bought the NCE powercab 5 AMP with wireless option, I think I paid $630 for the whole package deal. So it seems I am up and running already with DCC and sound on the short layout test track I setup. The isolated programming track I keep getting CAN NOT READ CV but I am pretty sure that was me and the electrical connection, so I can fix that in the next day or so. I am using an Atlas Terminal Track for the programming track and I don't think enough juice is getting through to the rails.....so will just solder the connections direct to the rails tommorrow and try again.
Here is where I am a little lost. I can't find where in the instructions it says how to plug in the wireless antenna box to the NCE cab. I thought I would ask here first before I call or email NCE. I want to test wireless operation pretty soon.
Anyone have any ideas what outlet I plug that into exactly?
Also, been watching the youtube videos on NCE and I see some folks running feeder wires to each rail between rail joiners. So I presume that is a method to get around potential shorts. Now, like I said before my layout track is short and I think it is sectional Atlas track with about 10 sections connected.........no shorts. So why would I want to go overboard like that with feeder wiring to each rail in each section? So I need some further explanation on that and why it is done if anyone knows.
This is my third HO Scale Layout but first in the DCC era. I boxed my last layout in 1988. Last layout was exclusively Atlas code 100 Custom Line switches and Flex track. Mostly Atheran locos and rolling stock. Had a problem like everyone else with the #4 Atlas switches with 4 axle locomotives and sometimes the 6 axle would derail on them. So this time I think I am going with Bachman #5 turnouts and anything above that will be Atlas.
With this layout I think I was able to keep the minimum radius at 22" on the mainline with 18" on the inside secondary.........per the track plan but the track is not laid yet.
Double check the box, I dont think PowerCab comes in a 5 amp version...are you sure you dont have the Power Pro?
Bear "It's all about having fun."
There is a diagram on the NCE site and the antenna is not plugged into the cab, it is plugged into the back of the UTP panel. As for your wiring question, wait for rrinker to weigh in...the guy is an electrical genius. One more thing, NCE is used to getting what some would consider dumb questions. I have called them myself with a dumb question and the rep on the line was polite and considerate and patient.
CMStPnP So I am somewhat ignorant in DCC operation and bought the NCE powercab 5 AMP with wireless option, I think I paid $630 for the whole package deal.
So I am somewhat ignorant in DCC operation and bought the NCE powercab 5 AMP with wireless option, I think I paid $630 for the whole package deal.
CMStPnP So it seems I am up and running already with DCC and sound on the short layout test track I setup. The isolated programming track I keep getting CAN NOT READ CV but I am pretty sure that was me and the electrical connection, so I can fix that in the next day or so.
So it seems I am up and running already with DCC and sound on the short layout test track I setup. The isolated programming track I keep getting CAN NOT READ CV but I am pretty sure that was me and the electrical connection, so I can fix that in the next day or so.
CMStPnP Here is where I am a little lost. I can't find where in the instructions it says how to plug in the wireless antenna box to the NCE cab. I thought I would ask here first before I call or email NCE. I want to test wireless operation pretty soon. Anyone have any ideas what outlet I plug that into exactly?
CMStPnP Also, been watching the youtube videos on NCE and I see some folks running feeder wires to each rail between rail joiners. So I presume that is a method to get around potential shorts. Now, like I said before my layout track is short and I think it is sectional Atlas track with about 10 sections connected.........no shorts. So why would I want to go overboard like that with feeder wiring to each rail in each section? So I need some further explanation on that and why it is done if anyone knows.
CMStPnP With this layout I think I was able to keep the minimum radius at 22" on the mainline with 18" on the inside secondary.........per the track plan but the track is not laid yet.
In HO scale, the radius of those curves is considered tight. But, if you have limited space, you may have no choice. It would be better if you could use 22" and 24" radius. Everything that moves on the layout looks better and operates better, fewer derailments and fewer unintended uncouplings.
Rich
Alton Junction
According to the manual, that UTP panel was included in the box.
CMStPnPAlso, been watching the youtube videos on NCE and I see some folks running feeder wires to each rail between rail joiners. So I presume that is a method to get around potential shorts. Now, like I said before my layout track is short and I think it is sectional Atlas track with about 10 sections
Nothing to do with preventing shorts. Think about it, adding more electricity wouldn't help a short, it would only cause heat, smoke and fire.
It reliably supplies power to all the rails. DCC is more sensitive to voltage drop off over long runs. You don't have a long run. Sometimes rail joiners do not conduct electricity very well because they can be loose; ballast glue and track weathering all get in the way of those pesky electrons.
On a big layout you would want feeders every 6 feet. You only have about 8' of track and if you power it from the middlem, your longest run is 4'.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Does this help you out?
Neal
Neal, the OP has the radio version. Wrong diagram.
CMStPnPThe isolated programming track I keep getting CAN NOT READ CV but I am pretty sure that was me and the electrical connection, so I can fix that in the next day or so. I am using an Atlas Terminal Track for the programming track and I don't think enough juice is getting through to the rails.....so will just solder the connections direct to the rails tommorrow and try again.
If that doesn't work you will have to reset your decoder. We can't see what decoder you have from here. Most are reset by changing CV 8 to 8 in programming on the main mode. Then cycling the power off and on. I think MDC may be a different CV.
With a couple thousand posts, I'm going to assume you know the difference between DCC ready and DCC
What decoder are you trying to read on the program track? If it's a Tsunami, you will probably need to get a program track booster. Try a non-sound loco, it should work fine.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I agree with Randy. Every sound decoder needs to have a power booster on the programming track output for the NCE PH Pro.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
OK, thanks for the input, yes I use the UTP so will use that for the antenna.
And to answer everyone else:
1. 18-22 inch not my first choice for radius curves but I outsourced the benchwork and track plan to a professional firm and they stated with the space I have available that is the best they could do for what I wanted. The 18 inch radius only exists on track #2 for the Helix that goes to the upper level, outer track is 22 inch. I will have cross overs on Helix approach so that I can choose which radius for which train. More visible parts of the layout will have a min of 22 inch...........possibly as low as 20 inch but no need to use 18 inch outside of the helix.
2. Yes I know the difference between DCC and DCC ready.
3. Decoder types, Lokosound (BLI?), Tsunami (Athearn), Quantum (Intermountain).........yes, I have a mix of locomotive brands.
4. Power Booster: OK in the manual NCE stated they fixed that issue with the Cab I have but apparently they have not so will pick up a Digitrax booster......Oy! Yeah I was also a little confused on this as well they say the power pack is divided in half with the Programming Pack half not having access to the 5 amps that the track layout path has.
5. On the feeder wires.........oh what a pain the arse, are you kidding? Back in the 1980's had a MRC power pack and it was enough to power Athearn locomotives aorund a small basement layout with no feeder wires........what happened? OK though will take your advice on that and run the bus everywhere with junction terminals. Layout is in a 10 by 11 spare bedroom but has two levels. I think most of the track is taken up by the Helix which required 13-14 packs of six sections of 18" and 22" radius curve track each (cha-ching).
I think it is 24 to 28 inches between levels. I am working on the lower one before I install the second pre-fab level. The whole layout only has two legs to the floor to access to the under benchwork wiring is really easy, the helix only had 4 legs because I requested it be on casters so I could get better access to the window and closet. Most of the layout weight is carried by the studs behind the drywall (it's pretty light, so I am not too worried). Great benchwork design, they did good work.
Thanks everyone for your feedback.
I will differ to rrinker or anyone else, but I dont think you want to mix a Digitrax booster in with an NCE cab.
bearman I will differ to rrinker or anyone else, but I dont think you want to mix a Digitrax booster in with an NCE cab.
Yes, probably a good idea to stay with NCE.
It does not sound like you have a big layout...why do you need a booster? The Power Pro is a 5 amp system
Program track booster - the program track power from the PowerPro command station is not enough for sound decoders like Tsunami and QSI to read and write.
It's the test track that's 10 pieces of sectional track.
Don't give the man buyers' remorse. Model Railroading is not about need, it's about lust.
Sorry, I should have clarified...A Program Track Booster. Not a FULL booster. And I wouldn't worry about putting a feeder at every track junction. Everyone has different opinions. The general rule of thumb is about every 3 feet. But if you have long stretches of solid rail that are soldered at the joiners you can go further. The only exception to this rule is where there are reversing sections. Reversing sections need to have their rails blocks within 1/10th volt, so it's wise to put feeders at the end of each reversing section block.As others allude, Randy is the most reliable source for the majority of things. And if he's not available, me or others will pipe in.I personally rewired a very large portion of DC club that existed from the 1950's to DCC using NCE. I was their trouble shooter. I've seen every problem there was and learned how to step around them. Although NCE isn't my forte any more. (More of a digitrax man)BTW: It is possible to use a digitrax booster with an NCE if you know the bus wires. BUT I would NOT recommend it. Both digitrax and NCE have rail syncs on their bus IIRC. This is the DCC signal without the boosted voltage/current. And that's how most boosters work. They are just feeding off the sync signal.
NCE must have changed things. Some years ago, maybe ten, my local club got the NCE five amp power pro. We ran a pair of wires from the booster program terminals to a program track at the end of a yard ladder and had no issues with programing any decoders including SoundTraxx.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
CMStPnP5. On the feeder wires.........oh what a pain the arse, are you kidding? Back in the 1980's had a MRC power pack and it was enough to power Athearn locomotives aorund a small basement layout with no feeder wires........what happened?
Nothing happened. I had a large island style layout, it filled a 11' x 16' room with just enough space to get around the outside. I ran it on an MRC 2500, and it was fine, until rail joiners started to fail, and I wanted to expand my cab control, so I started adding feeders.
Adding the feeders give you reliable power to every area of your layout, and if your running sound, you'll want that, or you will notice the difference.
Simple as that.
During Christmas, I have a temporary layout I set up, DC, about a 6'x8' area, all sectional Bachmann EZ Track, and I have feeders to 4 places, around the layout. It made a big difference.
Mike.
My You Tube
bearmanIt does not sound like you have a big layout...why do you need a booster? The Power Pro is a 5 amp system
NCE mentions in the manual with the older systems you will need a booster for the program track but stated my system should be OK. Though in the same manual they stated the Amps to the Programming Track are far less than the Amps to the layout track (seperate outlets). Really need to get an Amp meter to see what is going on. However before I buy the booster I am going to try a better wiring option to make sure.
Why did I get a 5 AMP system for such a small layout? Couple of reasons, todays HO Scale trains are drawing more power from the rails. I have a full Superliner Set that is lighted, BLI CZ set that is lighted, will be using Bachmans EOT flasher, etc. Second reason is this is probably not my last train layout and the benchwork was specifically engineered so that I could break down and move it to a new house without massive destruction of scenary and/or track dislocation. So this track layout could form the core of a future track layout that is larger.
In fact the consultants that built the benchwork being model railroaders themselves suggested I punch a hole through the drywall into bedroom #4 and use part of that space for the layout as well as punch a hole into the large walkin closet for staging yard space (or remove the closet door). That was a little too ambitious for me at this point and I am happy with what I have so far.
Due to expansive soils, houses in Dallas do not have basements and are constructed on a slab. So either need to find a new house after retirement with a large media room OR move to a state where they construct basements. By the time I retire my home will be worth close to or over $500k. I paid $148k to build it new and it is at $300k now. I want a cheaper home for retirement so will probably move a little further out from the city or to Austin or San Antonio.
richg1998 NCE must have changed things. Some years ago, maybe ten, my local club got the NCE five amp power pro. We ran a pair of wires from the booster program terminals to a program track at the end of a yard ladder and had no issues with programing any decoders including SoundTraxx. Rich
It might be the decoders with sound cards changed or draw more power. I definitely noticed a difference in volume between the sound cards between the different models or else my DCC has the volume cranked up somewhere. On the proto 2000 (Walthers) engines I have to raise my voice over the noise. Athearn is about right volume wise (Tsunami).
Also noticed the start speed step on the NCE of the Intermountain F7 is definitely and noticeably a lot lower than the Athearn GP-7. Not sure if that is different gearing or one draws more power than the other or both. I suspect you can program around that for multi-unit lashups.
CMStPnPAlso noticed the start speed step on the NCE of the Intermountain F7 is definitely and noticeably a lot lower than the Athearn GP-7.
Hi CMStPnP:
You should be able to program your locomotives to all having the same running characteristics. You will have to play with speed tables to do that and I am not knowledgeable enough to give you instructions on how to do that. However, I will suggest that if you are going to install your own decoders in the future you should consider using Loksound Selects. They have a self programming capability that automatically adjusts the locomotive to start moving very slowly at speed step 1 and rewrites the speed tables to suit the particular motor.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
CMStPnP NCE mentions in the manual with the older systems you will need a booster for the program track but stated my system should be OK. Though in the same manual they stated the Amps to the Programming Track are far less than the Amps to the layout track (seperate outlets). Really need to get an Amp meter to see what is going on. However before I buy the booster I am going to try a better wiring option to make sure.
You may have missed my reply to your initial post, but your best option is to purchase a Soundtraxx PTB-100 Programming Track Booster for around $50.
Here is an NCE article that discusses this entire issue including an alternative to purchasing a Programming Track Booster. The alternative seems too complicated for me, so I would be content to purchase a Programming Track Booster.
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204543065-Programming-sound-equipped-locos-programming-track-booster-PTB-100
CMStPnP Why did I get a 5 AMP system for such a small layout? Couple of reasons, todays HO Scale trains are drawing more power from the rails. I have a full Superliner Set that is lighted, BLI CZ set that is lighted, will be using Bachmans EOT flasher, etc. Second reason is this is probably not my last train layout and the benchwork was specifically engineered so that I could break down and move it to a new house without massive destruction of scenary and/or track dislocation. So this track layout could form the core of a future track layout that is larger.
But, my first sound equipped locomotive had a QSI Quantum decoder, and the Programming Track could not read CVs. The problem increased when my next sound decoder was a Soundtraxx Tsunami. So, I purchased and installed a PTB-100 Programming Track Booster, and my problems ended with the Programming Track.
I must be missing something in this discussion. I have a portable programming track powered by the original 2 amp wall wart from the NCE starter set I purchased a number of years ago. Using just that power source and the throttle that came with the starter set I have programmed a number of sound equipped units from various mfgs without any trouble. The list includes BLI Paragon, Athearn, Walthers and a couple of others. What am I not getting?
Old Fat Robert
richhotrainWhere exactly in your manual did you read that your system is OK and does not require a Programming Track Booster? You may have missed my reply to your initial post, but your best option is to purchase a Soundtraxx PTB-100 Programming Track Booster for around $50.
It could have been the NEC website vs the manual but I think it was warning agaist a direct connection to the Cab...........Here is the warning again in bold concerning the PROCAB. I did see your comment about Soundtraxx and I will go that route. In the link below, that is an exact picture of my hand held cab so I am sure that is the way to go since NEC recommends it as well.
richhotrainYou made a smart decision to start out with the NCE PH-Pro 5 amp wireless system for exactly the reasons that you cited. My view is that it is always better to start out with a full featured DCC system than to buy a starter system only to have to upgrade it later.
Thanks, had input from the consultants and asked which they thought would be better for a DCC novice and they liked the NEC help desk and website....
They also recommended I switch from Atlas to Bachman track because they said I probably would have less an issue with DCC plus the trackplan they did was with Bachman. I like Atlas better so I might use Bachman for turnouts (will do some testing before that decision) but majority of track will be Atlas. They recommended sectional track vs flex track on the helix as well, stated it would be far less frustrating to use sectional track with the limited install space and I agreed with them there.
Here is their website:
http://www.twtrainworx.com/
They did excellent work on the benchwork and they attend most of HO Scale rail expos.......their favorite is the annual one in West Allis, WI at State Fair Park. Very saavy at HO Layouts and very busy group of people. Usually they lay the track and do the whole nine yards but I told them I only needed the benchwork and can do the rest myself. They took measurements of the room, floated a few track plans and took the one I approved. Built the entire benchwork offsite in a modular fashion. They had it setup in the bedroom in about 2 hours. So very fast with assembly and not much disruption.
Old Fat Robert I must be missing something in this discussion. I have a portable programming track powered by the original 2 amp wall wart from the NCE starter set I purchased a number of years ago. Using just that power source and the throttle that came with the starter set I have programmed a number of sound equipped units from various mfgs without any trouble. The list includes BLI Paragon, Athearn, Walthers and a couple of others. What am I not getting? Old Fat Robert
Robert,
Unlike the PH-Pro, the Power Cab has never needed a programming track booster and has enough oomph to program sound decoders - like the ones you mentioned above. And, given that it's portable, you can program locomotives from your bench or your layout.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
CMStPnPWhy did I get a 5 AMP system for such a small layout? Couple of reasons, todays HO Scale trains are drawing more power from the rails. I have a full Superliner Set that is lighted, BLI CZ set that is lighted, will be using Bachmans EOT flasher, etc.
That would indeed be true for a passenger train with lighted cars but not so for a freight train - i.e. unless you are running a string of BLI stock cars that are all clucking and mooing at the same time. Newer, efficient locomotive motors have 1/2 to a 1/4 of the current draw as older, less efficient locomotives. Even locomotives equipped with sound decoders may only draw a 1/2A each.
CMStPnP richhotrain Where exactly in your manual did you read that your system is OK and does not require a Programming Track Booster? You may have missed my reply to your initial post, but your best option is to purchase a Soundtraxx PTB-100 Programming Track Booster for around $50. It could have been the NEC website vs the manual but I think it was warning agaist a direct connection to the Cab...........Here is the warning again in bold concerning the PROCAB. I did see your comment about Soundtraxx and I will go that route. In the link below, that is an exact picture of my hand held cab so I am sure that is the way to go since NEC recommends it as well. https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204543065-Programming-sound-equipped-locos-programming-track-booster-PTB-100
richhotrain Where exactly in your manual did you read that your system is OK and does not require a Programming Track Booster? You may have missed my reply to your initial post, but your best option is to purchase a Soundtraxx PTB-100 Programming Track Booster for around $50.
Do you have the PowerCab or the ProCab (PH-Pro)?
The warning in bold letters in that link refers to the PowerCab and cautions that you should not connect a Programming Track Booster of any kind to the PowerCab.
But since you have the 5 amp wireless DCC system, we are operating on the assumption that you have the ProCab, the PH-Pro.
That link from NCE is about adding a Programming Track Booster to the ProCab.
Here is the pertinent language:
The NCE 5 amp systems were designed prior to the widespread use of sound equipped locomotives. The higher inrush of current on sound decoders causes the programming track to think that a short circuit is detected. To help eliminate this issue you can modify your command station with this article or add a programming track booster.
Soundtraxx PTB-100 http://www.soundtraxx.com/access/ptb100.php
*** note DO NOT connect a programming track booster of any kind to an NCE Powercab. The programming track mode of the Powercab is a newer design that incorporates the ability to program sound equipped decoders.
C'mon back and confirm for us whether you have the PowerCab or the ProCab (PH-Pro).