30 awg super flex

[RR_Mel]

Good Find

 

I found some 30 awg super flex wire in eBay and couldn’t resist so I ordered a 50’ roll of black.  It arrived this afternoon.  It is very nice wire and very flexible.

 

The OD measures .62mm/.026”.  The name on the spool is Bntechgo.  There is a web site printed on the spool label: www.bntechgo.com   The eBay sight is

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Gauge-Flexible-Silicone-Wire-Black-50-feet-600V-200-deg-C-Tinned-Copper-Wire/302634026015?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

I’m very impressed with the wire, I have ordered a spool of 28 awg.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28-Gauge-Flexible-Silicone-Wire-Black-50-feet-600V-200-deg-C-Tinned-Copper-Wire/302634037230?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

I noticed that the seller only had one sale after I placed my first order.  It arrived on time, the spool was in a nice box, the box was nicely packaged in a padded envelope.

.

 

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[7j43k]

Mel,

 

Can you please mike the OD on that stuff, please.

Looks interesting!

 

Ed

[gmpullman]

I have had good luck with this stuff, too: runs about 8¢/foot. A little thicker than Mel's wire at .0475" and 11 strand.

https://www.amazon.com/StrivedayTM-Flexible-Silicone-electronic-electrics/dp/B01KQ2JNLI/ref=pd_sim_60_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01KQ2JNLI&pd_rd_r=BA6BDKCE8438DSJ7FHDA&pd_rd_w=U8fRg&pd_rd_wg=TyvLe&refRID=BA6BDKCE8438DSJ7FHDA&th=1

32.8' on each spool. I haven't counted eleven strands, it is very flexible.

Five other colors here:

https://www.amazon.com/StrivedayTM-Flexible-Silicone-electronic-electrics/dp/B01KQ2JPY8/ref=pd_sim_60_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01KQ2JNLI&pd_rd_r=BA6BDKCE8438DSJ7FHDA&pd_rd_w=U8fRg&pd_rd_wg=TyvLe&refRID=BA6BDKCE8438DSJ7FHDA&th=1

I keep some of the Digitrax wire on hand as well. It's all about choices!

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Digitrax-DECODERWIRE-30AWG-Decoder-Wire-p/dig-decoderwire.htm

Options—

Thanks, Ed

[RR_Mel]

The dimentions on my post are from my digital micrometer, .62mm/.026” OD.

I used some of the wire between the Athearn streamline passenger truck wipers through the frame floor on my baggage car power unit to the 5 volt LM7805 regulator for my interior lighting, works great!  

 

EDIT:

Ed's price beats what I paid.  What is the OD of the wire you bought?

[gmpullman]

RR_Mel

EDIT: Ed's price beats what I paid.  What is the OD of the wire you bought?

Yours is a little thinner, Mel. The Amazon wire I show is .0475, 30 ga. and 11 strand tinned copper. Thinner may make a difference if you have to stuff a lot of wires under a shell.

I also bought a dozen-or-so spools from another ebay seller. The wire came on larger white spools. It was quite some time ago and I don't recall the particulars * but the insulation MAY have been PVC on that stuff.

* I used the ebay seller you suggested here, Mel:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/240-73-m-28-AWG-Stranded-Tinned-Copper-Decoder-Model-R-R-Layout-Hook-Up-Wire/361575993019?hash=item542f9bcebb:g:0IsAAOSwSypY9-Tf

Mentioned in this thread:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/266743.aspx

 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/266743.aspx

 

 

The silicone is very flexible and easy to strip. Unlike the PVC it does not shrink away when heat is applied. I use teflon wire from Tomar for signals. That stuff is a pain to strip!

Regards, Ed

[RR_Mel]

gmpullman

 

 

RR_Mel

EDIT: Ed's price beats what I paid.  What is the OD of the wire you bought?

 

 

Yours is a little thinner, Mel. The Amazon wire I show is .0475, 30 ga. and 11 strand tinned copper. Thinner may make a difference if you have to stuff a lot of wires under a shell.

I also bought a dozen-or-so spools from another ebay seller. The wire came on larger white spools. It was quite some time ago and I don't recall the particulars * but the insulation MAY have been PVC on that stuff.

* I used the ebay seller you suggested here, Mel:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/240-73-m-28-AWG-Stranded-Tinned-Copper-Decoder-Model-R-R-Layout-Hook-Up-Wire/361575993019?hash=item542f9bcebb:g:0IsAAOSwSypY9-Tf

Mentioned in this thread:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/266743.aspx

 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/266743.aspx

 

 

The silicone is very flexible and easy to strip. Unlike the PVC it does not shrink away when heat is applied. I use teflon wire from Tomar for signals. That stuff is a pain to strip!

Regards, Ed

 

The wire that you and I bought earlier is slightly larger in diameter but not near as flexible as the as the Bntechgo wire.

 

The #28 wire I ordered today should be the same diameter as the earlier #30 but super flex.  I’ll know by Friday next week.

 

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

 

[gregc]

RR_Mel

The dimentions on my post are from my digital micrometer, .62mm/.026” OD.

i don't understand.   according to this chart, 30g wire is 0.01".   i've used single strand 30g wire to connect truck pickups to passenger car LEDs.

[mbinsewi]

Please share how you strip the wires, without loosing any strands in the process.

I've been melting it off, with a hot solder iron, holding the wire against a wood block, so I could put some pressure on the solder iron, and cleaning off any fragments with a finger nail.

Any wire strippers I've tried, seem to damage some of the strands.

Mike.

[7j43k]

Greg,

 

I asked about the OD of the wire.  Since Mel already said it was 30 ga, I implied that I wanted to know the diameter of the wire INCLUDING the insulation.

I've bought various sizes of teeny wire before, and the overall OD is something of interest to me, as some of them were, uh, pudgy.  And some svelt.

 

Ed

[gregc]

the wire i have measures 0.01 and 0.02 with insulation

[RR_Mel]

The #30 Bntechgo Wire is .026” OD (including the insulation) and has 16 strands.  It is super flexible.  Much more flexible than TCS or Digitrax wire and the #30 Striveday™ wire is even less flexible than TCS #30 wire.

 

I’m hoping the #28 has the same flexibility as the #30,  #30 is rated at 142ma and #28 is rated at 226ma.  Two trucks will supply 500ma within specs from all 8 wheels using #28.

 

Short runs of #28 should easily handle 2 amp surges.  I’ve tested #28 wire 8” long continuously at 2 amps with .07 volts drop, it only gets slightly warm to the touch after an hour.  #30 gets warm quickly at 1½ amps.

 

I did my testing using a Fluke 179.  

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[hon30critter]

TCS offers 32 ga. wire with 18 strands. It is quite flexible.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Supplies/Wire/Wire.htm

It is a little more expensive than what the other guys are showing.

Dave

[RR_Mel]

I need higher current with super flexibility, #32 wire max current is only 91ma.  I haven’t tested #32 but I would think it’s max current without over heating would be around 350 ma.

 

My peak current is 600ma for about 1 minute to charge the onboard battery, then around 70ma to power the interior lights in my passenger cars and trickle charge the battery.

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[hon30critter]

RR_Mel

  My peak current is 600ma for about 1 minute to charge the onboard battery, then around 70ma to power the interior lights in my passenger cars and trickle charge the battery.

I can smell the smoke from the 32 ga. wire now!

Dave

[hon30critter]

gregc:

What is the tool with the wire running through it in your picture?

Dave

[Southgate]

Thanks for the "lead", Mel. I was going to post a question about some good thin wire for a project. Dan

[gregc]

hon30critter

What is the tool with the wire running through it in your picture?

click the picture to see the page about wire-wrapping

hon30critter

I can smell the smoke from the 32 ga. wire now

a while back i layed a piece of 30g wire across the tracks.   my lamp current limiter lit up, preventing my powerCab from shutting down and the wire did not get hot.   Don't believe it drew 1A.   @15V shouldn't be more than 15W.

[RR_Mel]

Greg

 

I was using the voltage drop for 8” of wire for my final usage reference, trying to keep it under .1 volts at my max current draw.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[gregc]

according to the chart, single strand 30g has a resistance of 0.339 ohm/meter (39.4 in) or 0.0086 ohm/in.

8" of 30g will have 0.069 ohm.  At 1A, that's a drop of 0.07V or 0.14V if you consider roundtrip and 0.14W.

i guess the point is that even very fine wire over short distances doesn't have that much resistance and very small voltage drop;  even when carrying a relatively large current (1A) which is more than a typical HO motor and significantly more that most LED circuits which typical draw 10 ma per circuit..

 

 

[RR_Mel]

Unless the battery voltage is pretty low the TP4056 charger will top it off in well under a minute.  I changed the sense resistor on the TP4056 to 4K limiting the max current to a little over 600ma.  It comes with a 1200Ω sense resistor for a 1 amp charge rate.  The charge mode on the TP4056 doesn’t kick in until the battery voltage drops under 4.2 volts.  With all of the LEDs on the max current draw is 62ma so it only draws high current from the rails with low battery voltage.

 

I’ve been using #30 and round trip the voltage drop at 600ma is .22 volts at the charger from the rails to the charger.  My goal is to try to keep my voltage drops under .1 volt, it’s just my thing.

 

Most of the drop is at the wheel wipers.  I’m using Mel made .025” Phosphor Bronze wire wipers on all wheels for power pickup.  I’m using a Athearn streamline baggage car for the passenger car interior lighting power supply.  The trucks are standard Athearn two axle with Athearn metal 36” wheel sets.

 

As always I go with overkill on every project.  The bottom line is my passenger train lighting works fantastic, NO flickering, Function F4 for controlled on off, and I can park my passenger train with all lights on for hours without track power.  That was my objective for my Southern Pacific Daylight Passenger Service.

 

This is my passenger train interior lighting power car.

 

 

The Digitrax TL1 controls the car lighting tripping the relay using DCC function F4.  The TP4056 charging module is normally powered from a USB port, I added a LM7805 regulator and a 1½ amp bridge to power the charger from the rails.  I run dual mode on my layout so for DC operation I added a latching reed switch to override the relay.

 

I’m also going to redo the jumper cables between cars with the #30 super flex wire.  I went with polarized micro connectors at each end of the passenger cars.  I rarely uncouple my passenger cars, so the jumpers aren’t a problem for me.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[woodone]

NWSL used to sell some super flex wire. It was wire that was 29 gauge with 51 strans of very fine wire.

you might try Litchfield Station to see if they still stock it

 

 

[rrinker]

 Something to think about - if you are using 5% or 10% tolerance resistors for LEDs, the range of tolerance in the resistor will have a greater variation than the equivalent of .1 volt. So don't go too nuts trying to get bigger wire that won't look as good.

                                      --Randy

 

[RR_Mel]

Randy

 

I ordered the #28 super flex for the truck pickup wires.  They need to be a bit higher current to support the current to the TP4056 charger module.  When the battery is low it takes a bit over 600ma from the rails to top off the battery.

 

The total voltage drop from the rails to the TP4056 charger at max charge using 30 gauge wire is .12 volts on each wire (total drop at the charger module is .24 volts).  I’m hoping that the #28 super flex will bring that down to under .1 volts total.  I haven’t checked the voltage drop at the wiper to wheel connections.  The total round trip length of the #30 wire to the charger is about 18".

 

I just finished making up the 10 between car jumpers using the #30 gauge wire I received yesterday.  They make the TCS #30 look like super stiff wire.  I don’t have a concern for any other wire capacity, the max LED current is under 70ma at 4 volts total for all 11 cars.

 

I removed the much stiffer #30 wire from the trucks this afternoon and will replace it with the #28 super flex when it arrives next week.  The #28 super flex is the same OD size as the TCS #30.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[Gaucho]

Hi, 

Before you go crazy with voltage drops, I think you should double check your calculations. A 30 AWG copper conductor has a resistance value of .103 ohm/foot. at .6 amp it will give you a voltage drop of .06 volts.

Reference: https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Moe

 

[RR_Mel]

I’m familiar with the charts but I’m going with actual meter readings using my Fluke 179.  The voltage drop isn’t really a problem it’s just my thing.

 

The TP4056 charger doesn’t see any voltage drop.  The voltage at the rails feeds the wheels then the wheel wipers to #30 wire to a 1½ amp diode bridge then that feeds a LM7805 regulator and that in turn feeds the TP4056 at 4.93 volts.  My thing is simply keeping the losses to a minimum.  Seeing anything over .1 volts drop at 600ma disturbs me.

 

I have 11 passenger cars connected with micro connectors and #30 super flex.  With 4.20 volts at 67ma at the relay contacts in the baggage car the voltage at the observation car is 4.16.  Not bad for 20 micro connectors (gold plated).

 

I did use #26 wire in each passenger car between the connectors but #30 jumpers between cars.

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[gregc]

RR_Mel

I’m hoping that the #28 super flex will bring that down to under .1 volts total.

what's the benefit of minimizing voltage drop to such a value in this application?

i hope this discussion doesn't unnecessarily confuse people about voltage drop in this and other applications.

This drop is between the track which is ~15v and the charging circuit for a 3.7V battery.   Unless its input voltage (~15v) is close to the battery voltage, the charging circuit should have no problem drawing as much current as it requires . 

Also, the voltage drop will be largest when drawing max current at the begining of the charge.  The current draw should be much smaller and voltage drop minimal when trying to "top off" the battery near the end of the charge.   In this application, it's at minimal current that voltage drop would be of concern.

 

understanding voltage drop properly explains why relatively short decoder wires are so thin, while bus wires feeding the track across significantly longer distances are heavier (there are some other reasons).

[RR_Mel]

I wouldn’t want anyone to get excited about my minimal voltage drops.  Sorry if I upset anybody.  It’s just my thing keeping everything as close to prefect electronically as I can, just 50 years in the trade.

 

Actually even with larger voltage drops everything would still work fine.  I’m more excited with the size and flexibility of the Bntecngo wire and got carried away with my lighting project.  A .25 volt drop or more at track or decoder voltage wouldn’t bother the operations.

 

I’m not concerned with track voltages, I don’t run a DCC buss under my track and everything works fine.  I have individual home runs from my blocks to my control panel using #20 gauge solid wire and everything works great in both DC and DCC mode.

 

I’m not a rivet counter when it comes to my railroad modeling or my layout but very much so when it involves my electronic projects.

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[rrinker]

 Instead of a 7805, use a something like an LM2940. The venerable old 7805 needs at least 7V input to maintain 5V out, the LM2940 goes down to 6V input. Only caveat is that the output capacitor between the output and ground of the regulator is vitally important in the LDO types like the LM2940 to keep it from oscillating.

                       --Randy

 

[RR_Mel]

Randy

 

When I run in DC mode it isn’t necessary to have the battery on charge because of the high battery capacity.  When I get through running my Daylight passenger I park it on a hidden siding in a isolated block for the E7s with a charging block behind the E7s.  I have a DPDT switch to select either run or charge.

 

I haven’t run my Daylight on DC for some time now.  Since you talked me through the DCC setup for my E7s every thing is going great.  Going to JMRI for programming also helped a bunch.

 

Thanks again Randy.

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[BroadwayLion]

EVERYBODY has dead mice around the house. That is my goto source for super fine wire. Just cut off the mouse's tail, open it up and there is your super fine wire.

DON'T toss that dead mouse yet, there are optical detectors in there. Maybe you can figure a way to use them on the railroad.

Salvage all of the parts, soon you will have more parts than you know what to do with.

ROAR