Hands down, Loksound. Had a Soundtraxx decoder in a Bowser diesel switcher. Poor sound and low-speed control. (I couldn't get better than 5 sMPH at speed step 001 - even after much tweaking.) Loksound - out of the box - has always yielded <1 sMPH - without having to do anything to it.
Although I haven't tried one yet, the TCS Wow! decoders would be worth a look. I heard one at the NMRA train show last year and it was quite impressive.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I think the Loksound stinks, no customer service and good trouble shooting at all in there instructions. I just canceled an order for a bunch of Atlas Locomotives.
lol
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rc guy I think the Loksound stinks, no customer service and good trouble shooting at all in there instructions. I just canceled an order for a bunch of Atlas Locomotives.
Take a deep breath and count to 10. Read up and educate yourself as advised by the folks in the other topic. You could be denying yourself some very impressive sound before getting started. From all I'm reading, Loksound has impressed alot of folks, at least those who can appeciate it. I heard the F40PH version at MB Kleins and was blown away.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Going with Lok. And the programer. It just seems smoother and the sound is so much better. Seems like no matter what product I buy as far as support goes anyway, the mfg is rarely helpful. Lucky for me I live in Colorado and iam close to Caboose Hobbies. They always help get answers.
With Soundtraxx help is only a phone call away. I have never failed to get someone on the phone to help!
I guess the other thing is this. Some of the sound files on tsunami are generic. Dynamic brakes on a GE are nothing like an EMD. Maybe iam missing something but a buddy has an AC4400 that has the db's of an EMD. All the other sounds are prototypical. It needs to be right. I don't care if someone watching my trains has no idea what all those sounds mean. I know.
Bet the guys at Atlas are reeling over your decision too. Deny yourself of a few new engines .... that'll show 'em ....
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I presume you are talking about Diesel sound?? I have lots of Tsunamis and a couple of QSI decoders. I run all steam. Loksound offers next to nothing in small steam and worse, the fast chuff sound algorithm sounds like a skipping digital sample!!! Completely unacceptable to my ears. Check the samples on Tony’s train site.
For these reasons I wouldn’t consider using Loksound until there is a larger selection of steam sounds and they fix the fast chuff. The WOW steam decoder I have used at Ops sessions has some reliability issues that I believe are being worked out…The sound and the motor control is good.
One other comment on the steam sounds: the Loksound samples are very bass and low midrange heavy while the TSU samples tend to be mid to high range heavy. This seems to be built into the samples from the audio processing done in recording. Frankly I would like a little more bass in the TSU and some highs in the Loksound.
Hopefully the economi TSUs are the leading edge of a new generation of Tsunamis that will run a little cooler and have better motor control and/or Loksound will expand offerings and fix their chuff.
Opinions do vary,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
woodone...LocSounds are made in China...
Mark R.The packaging is, not the decoder itself...
Mark, I believe you are mistaken.
Accoring to U. S. Customs and Border Protection:
Every article of foreign origin entering the United States must be legibly marked with the English name of the country of origin unless an exception from marking is provided for in the law.
Among the articles not requiring marking -
D. When the container of an article reasonably indicates the article’s origin; that is, the marked container reaches the ultimate purchaser unopened.
So, if Loksound decoders are imported to the U. S. they are supposed to be marked with their country of origin unless their container is.
Under the section "Marking of Containers" -
... Usual containers imported empty to be filled may be excepted from individual marking if they reach the person or firm that will fill them in a carton or other container marked with the country of origin. ...
Usual containers imported empty to be filled may be excepted from individual marking if they reach the person or firm that will fill them in a carton or other container marked with the country of origin.
...
If the packaging is made in China, it would come to ESU in a bigger package with the country of origin on that package, not on the individual packages.
Mark R. rc guy I think the Loksound stinks, no customer service and good trouble shooting at all in there instructions. I just canceled an order for a bunch of Atlas Locomotives. Bet the guys at Atlas are reeling over your decision too. Deny yourself of a few new engines .... that'll show 'em .... Mark.
More RS3's for me!
Trust me... I get the made in the USA THING. Totally get it. I live it believe it all that. I work in an industry ( heavy equipment) and I too have watched the labors of my generation succumb to china as well. I just want a good sounding decoder. Thats all..
And guess what? We have started a conversation about where these DECODERS are made only to install them in a locomotive that was made in China.... I wish we could claw our way out from under that insurmountable rock but until we get our country " on track" as it may be.....we will have to go with what we have. I think Athearn locomotive were made in America at one point perhaps all of them were. But suddenly the well known warning was broadcast all over " this product contains chemicals or what ever know to the state of ( we all know) to cause cancer" and it all changed. So sad... Agreed. But maybe some of US have something to with that. Think about it now.... I don't want this to go THAT direction. Until YOU or myself can produce a decoder to make the entire railroad modeling world happy, we will have to live with what we have. I just want to know what YOU think sounds good and prototypical what sounds as close to real as it can be... What makes that diesel or steamer move and sound like it did when it was made here.... In our home... America.
The reason the boxes say Made in China is because the BOXES are made in China. The boxes are shipped flat to the US where the decoders are packaged. Trust me on this one - I spent two weeks making the boxes, inserting the decoders and labelling them.
The decoders themselves are made in the Czech Republic and shipped to the US rolled in bubble-wrap with 25 decoders to a roll. The case these arrive in IS marked made in Czech Republic. All design work and software is done in Germany at ESU headquarters.
The Czech Republic is to Germany what Mexico is to the US .... cheaper labor and taxes. You need to remember, the "Made In" labelling only covers the item it is printed on, not necessarily the contents. I worked in the printing / packaging industry for 30 years. We would print book covers for a US company. By law, our exported covers had to say Printed In Canada, but when the covers were attached to the books themselves, it would give the false impression the entire book was printed in Canada. If the US company were to export those books, then THEIR pages would have to say Made In the USA. Can get rather confusing ....
Mark R.The decoders themselves are made in the Czech Republic...
Then where does it say that on the decoder or it's packaging? By U.S. law, it must.
Mark R....We would print book covers for a US company. By law, our exported covers had to say Printed In Canada...
That may be a requirement for export from Canada, I don't know, but, as long as they are in a larger container with the country of origin on it, then it is not a requirement for import into the U.S. (Unless a book cover is considered an "unusual container", which I doubt. Basically, an unusual container has value after it's contents are consumed, i.e. a vase full of candy. For a more thorough explanation, see the link I posted previously.)
I don't doubt that Loksound were previously made in the Czech Republic, but I do believe that now, at least some of them, are made in China.
CSX Robert Mark R. The decoders themselves are made in the Czech Republic... Then where does it say that on the decoder or it's packaging? By U.S. law, it must. Mark R. ...We would print book covers for a US company. By law, our exported covers had to say Printed In Canada... That may be a requirement for export from Canada, I don't know, but, as long as they are in a larger container with the country of origin on it, then it is not a requirement for import into the U.S. (Unless a book cover is considered an "unusual container", which I doubt. Basically, an unusual container has value after it's contents are consumed, i.e. a vase full of candy. For a more thorough explanation, see the link I posted previously.) I don't doubt that Loksound were previously made in the Czech Republic, but I do believe that now, at least some of them, are made in China.
Mark R. The decoders themselves are made in the Czech Republic...
Mark R. ...We would print book covers for a US company. By law, our exported covers had to say Printed In Canada...
I already told you - the decoders arrive in the US loose in a container marked made in the Czech Republic. Do I need to post you a picture of the box to prove my point ? I gave you the facts, yet you still for some reason refuse to believe me. I'm not going to argue what you're finding for facts online. I've known Matt for years and have helped him on numerous occasions, I KNOW the inner workings of their business, you obviously don't ....
Getting out of hand
Mark R.I already told you - the decoders arrive in the US loose in a container marked made in the Czech Republic.
Yes, I read that, and it would only satisfy the U.S. laws if "the marked container reaches the ultimate purchaser unopened", which it does not.
I'll admit that I have never been in their building nor seen their operation , and apparently you have, but if ESU LLC is receiveing decoders from the Czech Republic and selling them in the U. S. with no indication to the end user that they are from the Czech Republic, then they are not abidding by U. S. import laws. As far as "what I'm finding for facts online", my facts are coming straright from the U. S. Customs and Border Protection website.
Another source has Loksound V4 decoders coming from the Czech Republic, while Loksound Selects come from China. Frankly, I don't really care as long as I keep getting quality decoders.
rrinker Another source has Loksound V4 decoders coming from the Czech Republic, while Loksound Selects come from China. Frankly, I don't really care as long as I keep getting quality decoders. --Randy
Thank you Randy.
Randy, have you compared the physical appearance of a V4.0 to a Select ? By looking at them, they are identical. The ONLY difference is the software loaded into them.
When the decoders are made, they are truely blank. The software that is loaded onto them (in the US by the way) is what makes them a V4.0 or a Select.
They are NOT two different decoders made in two different countries.
I'm done ....
Allrighty then..... Moving on now, the Lok programmer, anyone have it? Is it easy to use? Any regrets?
Country of origin not a big deal at this point. As it will be programming DECODERS that are installed in locomotives made in China.
Yes, since I standardized on Loksound for sound, I bought a Lokprogrammer. I set it up on my program/test track with a switch to select between it and my PR3. One of the first things I did was modify a v4 Alco sound project to change the horn out for the M3RT-1 which my prototype used. Pretty easy to do (the M3RT-1 is in Loksound's sound library, so i didn;t record it and process it myself, I just used the one they had). Programming and reading the decoders is a snap, since when using the Lokprogrammer, it uses ESU's proprietary protocol to transfer the data. Recent versions of Decoderpro cna read Loksound decoders, but a full decoder read cna take an hour and have missed data since they are limited to standard NMRA read and write methods. You can read an entire decoder with Lokprogrammer in a few seconds.
Alright! Great. I love the sound of the Lok in my ES44AC. And the control is perfect. I know alot depends on the motor and drive mechanism as well and I have some work to do it those areas on some of my units. But.... I want to get this part right the first time, I hear stories of people buying on type of decoder and the pulling them all out for something else. Thanks again for opinion.
Mark R. rrinker Another source has Loksound V4 decoders coming from the Czech Republic, while Loksound Selects come from China. Frankly, I don't really care as long as I keep getting quality decoders. --Randy Randy, have you compared the physical appearance of a V4.0 to a Select ? By looking at them, they are identical. The ONLY difference is the software loaded into them. When the decoders are made, they are truely blank. The software that is loaded onto them (in the US by the way) is what makes them a V4.0 or a Select. They are NOT two different decoders made in two different countries. I'm done .... Mark.
DOn;t shoot the messenger. It's from this (mostly UK I believe) forum: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14074
I know the v4 and Select are the same decoders, just with different firmware - to the point that some of the settings in the v4 manual are more accurate than what is in the Select manual.
I'll have to dig out my packaging and see what it says - notice in that link one of the posters uses an ECoS system and says it said Made in China on it. The others are correct, imports to the US must state the correct country of origin and some things, like cars, need to break down the percentages if some parts are made in the US and others are made elsewhere. I doubt ESU is flaunting the law and mislabeling their products. This very well could be somethign that changed over time, especially as they grew more popular with North American modelers (or at least US - perhaps Candians have been big ESU users all along. They were effectively unknown here until PCM build models with v3.5 decoders factory installed. I think it was the year PCM announced their production that I went to the national Train Show and saw ESU's display, including the ECoS. Which astounded me - seemed like typical German overengineering (and I drive German cars), instead of using an encoder for the throttle knobs, they used potentiometers, except motor driven ones so if you aquire an already running loco, the knob moves to match the speed. You know, this is pretty much automatic with an encoder and doesn't need an extra drive motor to make the knob move.... but it works, and unlike other potentiometer throttles where the loc speed changes to match the knob setting, your loco keeps going at the same speed it was before. They also had a G scale train running on a circle of track on a board that could be tilted at any angle, to show off how well the BEMF worked in their decoders. As long as the loco could physically negotiate the grade, the speed uphill and downhill remained the same, unless you turned off BEMF.
EMD645 Alright! Great. I love the sound of the Lok in my ES44AC. And the control is perfect. I know alot depends on the motor and drive mechanism as well and I have some work to do it those areas on some of my units. But.... I want to get this part right the first time, I hear stories of people buying on type of decoder and the pulling them all out for something else. Thanks again for opinion.
Motor drive is easy to set - it's automatic! Just make sure you have enough clear track in front of the loco because when you do an automatic calibration, it takes off at full speed briefly. Set CV54=0 in Ops Mode, then hit F1. Just make sure there is plenty of clear track. I haven't had to adjust any of mine, they've all run great out of the box, but they are in Bowser Baldwin switchers, which have Canon motors and an amazing mechanism in them, and Atlas/Kato drive RS-3's (the old ones).