Only have one of each. The tsunami is easy to program, sounds ok and runs ok. The Lok is harder to program, sounds awesome and runs awesome. I have jmri for programming and the Lok pages look alot different than what I am used to seeing. I am sure I will figure it out but what do you all prefer?
Most are going to say the ESU LokSound. I have both, and prefer the LokSound because of the motor control and it's smaller.
Very happy Tsunami user, but steam only and not a direct comparison.
Motor control issues in Tsunamis are often a matter of some additional work tweaking CVs. The steam ones, at least, have inspired a raft of different menus to improve slow speed ops and work pretty effectively. They may not be Loksound, but then you don't need to buy a new decoder to try them
Loksound is good stuff, can't say you'd go wrong there. There's also TCS's WOW to consider now, which has darn good reviews, too.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I have Tsunami with sound in some steam, mostly. Factory items include Athearn Genesis FEF3, challenger and big boy. Those have long tenders that allow 2 large speakers so sound is pretty good. I have a Bachmann 2-6-2 Sound Value Tsunami and I hate the sound on with power on feature, which means sounds start with layout power, and the CV that would allow changing that is not available on the stripped Tsunamis. I added Tsunami with 1.1" speakers to two Bachmann 2-8-0s and they are ok overall. I had Tsunami in an Athearn Genesis GP9 and the sound was poor IMO (especially the horn) so I switched that to LokSound Select and added twin sugarcube speakers, much better overall for sound. I have Tsunamis in two Intermountain F units and they are just ok. I do tinker with the slow speed and BEMF CV settings which helps there. I dislike the lack of CVs 5&6 on the typical Tsunamis, which makes consist 3-point simple speed curve matching harder unless using decoder Pro (there are other manual CV workarounds).
I definitely prefer the LokSound Selects. I put a circuit board version in the GP9 to replace the Tsunami. But I usually prefer the 6-Aux version (a shrink wrapped, non circuit board version) as it takes a bit less room, certainly in length. I have used the 6-Aux in several LifeLike Proto diesels, with twin 1.1" speakers in the wide E and PA units, and multiple sugarcube speakers in the narrower GPs, RS-2s, Dash-9s. I'm very pleased with the sounds and the slow speed operation. I usually just turn off DC analog, set the 3-point speed curve to what's desired, and adjust the sound volumes and some lighting features. The Decoder Pro version 3.2 (I don't have the LokProgrammer) I was using left me confused (and DP was very slow on some complex pages) on some pages, so I set most of the needed adjustments using my NCE throttle. One has to study the manual as some sound and lighting CVs are multi level; e.g., set CV 31 to zero, then set CV xyz to adjust a lighting or sound CV. I do like that LED lights can be adjusted (brightness, etc). The new DP version 4 may have updated the LokSound pages to be more consistent with the decoders many CVs.
I have one P2K E unit with a QSI, and it's ok but older (so-so sounds) so I can't comment on how it's current versions stack up. And I have 3 BLI locos with Paragon 2 sound, which are ok but I have not run enough to compare critically. I've fit the Select 6-Aux into RS-2s with dual sugarcube speakers, but might have more easily used the 3/4 amp Micro. For tight spaces, the LokSound micro is said to run at normal temperatures, whereas the Tsunami Micro is oft reported here as running very warm, enough to be of concern.
So as a rule, I look at LokSound first, and go with that if the correct engine sound file exists. I do notice that Tsunami offers some sound files that LokSound does not currently offer, so I'll have to see if I would go with Tsunami for just that reason on a given loco. Can't say where I stand on TCS WowSound yet, but from what I read it will probably be second or first with the LokSounds, and Tsunami third for me.
Lots of random comments, but hopefully of interest. I can't say everyone would have the same opinions on some of these details.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I traded my last Tsunami for a Lok. Nothing but Lok now. ALl that complicated stuff in JMRI - only needed to remap functions. Which is where Loksound also shines - you cna map any F key to any sound and/or any function wire - there are thousands of combinations, which is why the JMRI page is so complicated. I have standardized on Loksound, so I bought the Lokprogrammer interface - a wise investment since it programs faster than JMRI ever will be bale to, and the remappign is a lot less complex and cumbersome -- plus you can just buy the decoders from the lowest cost source and load any of their sounds.
Tweaked or not, the Loksound motor control is superior to Tsunami - and it automatically adjusts the BEMF parameters for you, you don't have to fool with any CVs for that. The Loksound mico is smaller than a TSU-750 AND does not have heat issues, even without a big chunk of metal for a heat sink. There's the ability to load sounds - Loksound Select it isonly entire sound projects, you can't tweak individual sounds, instead you get multiple primemovers and horns and bells, and there is one CV that selects which of those will be used. Loksound V4 you cna totally edit the sounds individually, but do not have to, you cna load a stock sound project and go. This is as much a benefit for the dealer as it for the user - there is only a Loksound Select Direct, for example, not a Loksound Select Direct EMD 645, a Loksound Select Direct Alco 244, etc. The decoders are all identical. In addition to programmign the sounds, you can also update the firmware in Loksound decoders when a new version comes out - they've been adding features, especially to the Direct series quite a bit as they tweak things for more realism in the auto and manual notching.
Loksound decoders power on silent, you hit F8 (default but changeable) to start up. WHen you throttle up, the sounds rev up before the loco moves. When you park a loco, you can shut it down with F8 and it stays quiet. Tsunamis annoy the heck out of me because they dont run through the startup sequence until you advance the throttle, and you end up with a loco moving while the engine is still starting. They don't load up the prime mover before moving, unless you use manual notching. Not realistic at all.
And Loksound decoders are cheaper than Tsunamis.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Wow! Thanks so much for all the input. I felt I would go with Lok but wanted feelings from others. I have an intermountain ES44 ac with Lok, its amazing. The only thing I need to figure out is how to get the prime mover to go to idle while in dynamic brake. Thanks again!
I have one Tsunami diesel decoder. I will never buy another.
Loksound Select all the way. My only problem with Loksound is that I need some sound files that they have promised literally for years but they haven't released yet.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Loksound.
'Nuff said.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
If you can find a running example of one of the locos you need, let Matt Herman know where to find it and you might get your wish, if the owners are willing.
I'm in the same camp with Randy and agree 100% with his observations.
My first two Loksound equipped engines were the Kato Amtrak P-42s (Thank you Kato for offering a choice between Loksound or Tsunami) and I was immediately impressed with their sound and performance. I have since purchased and installed over 2 dozen Loksound Selects in first generation diesels.
I still have my first Tsunami steam that I put in a N&W Y-3 many years ago and as Mike has pointed out, Tsunami steam is very capable.
I presently have a few Athearn Genesis locomotives in "preorder" stage and decided to get the DC version on all of them and I'll install my own Loksound decoder (and rip out the microbulbs for LEDs at the same time)
I have several Intermountain F-7s with factory installed Loksound decoders and I'm very happy with those.
Like Randy, I bought a Lokprogrammer and I've already recovered some of the cost since I had several decoders with sound files that I no longer wanted so I just re-loaded new files available from the Loksound website.
I'm still experimenting with a handful of WOWsound Diesel decoders installed recently but, so far, I'm not willing to commit to those yet.
Happy Modeling, Ed
Guess I better save up for the programer. Jmri works but its confusing. And obviously, I can't load sounds with it. Again you people are wonderful! I have never posted on a forum and received so much help. Thanks
Troy
Parker co.
This does sum up the current situation pretty well. I can only add that the Tsunami is Made in the USA, which is important in some purchasing decisions.
On the other hand, it's also a situation that subject to change. I noted that no one mentioned any experience with the diesel Wow, which recently came on the market. I have no experience with either steam or diesel Wow yet, but the steam version has won over longtime Tsunami users. I suspect the diesel Wow is pretty good stuff also, so something to at least consider if you're buying decoders now.
So are the folks in Durango just sitting on their hands? There is a certain edginess in some of the comments as if Soundtraxx has just forgotten about their needs. No at all, the next gen Tsunamis are under development. My guess is that the new small version of the Econami Soundtraxx recently released is actually the form factor for at least one of the next gen Tsunamis. They took delivery of new chip line machines awhile back and I'm fairly certain they didn't make that investment to build the Econami. I don't know how far out the new Tsunamis will be, but I bet when they do arrive their will likely be a very much reduced distance between the decoders, making the choice much tougher. We shall see.
Well, let's put it this way: Tsunami is their second generation. Loksound v4/Direct is ESU's FOURTH generation sound decoder.
Tsunami was very late in arriving, it was a long time from the announcement (when the announced, the specs definitely blew away anything else out there) until they finally shipped. By the time Tsunami shipped, everyone else had done at least one if not two revisions of their decoders, and I really don;t think Tsunami was anything special by the time it actually arrived. Since then, other than a few variations in form factor and a few additional sound sets, they have been largely unchanged. No one else has stood still, the others have all done upgrades, or in the case of TCS, joined the fray.
The Economi is a step in the right direction, definitely an updated chip that is smaller AND can handle higher current than the existing Tsunami chip, so hopefully the heat problems of the TSU-750 are now things of the past. ANd YAY! finally support for CV2, 5 and 6 so you can do simple speed matching without messing with 28 step speed tables. Now just fix the startup and the loading of the prime mover with momentum enabled and they might have something. Oh and fix the horns! As seen in the latest Cody's Office - the Tsunami horns STILL stink.
mlehman I noted that no one mentioned any experience with the diesel Wow, which recently came on the market.
Mike:
I did make a passing comment on the WOWsound, above, but since the OP was only asking about Tsunami vs. Loksound I didn't want to confuse the issue.
Two of the WOW diesel decoders I have installed get an occasional spell of garbled sound for no apparent reason. Again, I don't want to pass judgement on the WOW until I have had the time to tweak the levels and re-map some of the default functions.
Cheers, Ed
hon30critter I have one Tsunami diesel decoder. I will never buy another. Loksound Select all the way. My only problem with Loksound is that I need some sound files that they have promised literally for years but they haven't released yet. Dave
I need a 567 Turbo Diesel Engine Sound for my N Scale SD26. When will that be available?Side question: is the 567 turbo sound the appropriate sound for an SD26? Wikipedia says the SD26 has a 567 diesel engine with 645 power assemblies, whatever that means. Or should I get an ESU LokSound Select Micro with a 645 diesel engine sound?
Well, on EMD prime movers, the power assembly is the cylinder, piston, and rod. It's not posted anywhere publicly that I know about, but there were some great pictures when they were renewing them in the GP-7 we have at the RCT&HS. Basically they are held in to the block with 4 bits they call crab studs - end cylinders have 2 that are single sided and then between cylinders each one is double sided. A heavy bolt is torqued down and this is all that keeps the cylinder liner in the motor and makes the piston push the crank instead of shooting out the top of the motor. The other neat thing - the con rods are not physically attached to the piston - there is no piston pin, if you are familiar with the way most internal combustion motors work. There is a seperate piston pin carrier that has the piston pin, but the actual piston itself is not physically attached to this.
Actually I found a link: http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77588 This is a 567, but these pictures and explanations should give you a good idea of how an EMD prime mover works. It's pretty neat stuff.
Now if you put 645 power assemblies in a 567 block, I guess it depends on what crank is used. If it's still a 567 crank, I'd think you'd get the bore of a 645 but the stroke of a 567, for an actual displacement somewhere in between (EMD model numbers refer to the cubic inch displacement of each cylinder - so you think your 409 is hot, that's 409 CI total of all 8, a 567 EMD is 567 CI PER CYLINDER). At least, that's my guess. Probably a somewhat unique sound in between the two, but I don't know if there are any SD26's still running witht heir original prime mover. Closer to a 645 I'd think.
Side note, Loksound is doing a new ALco 16-251 turbo, and I ALMOST would have been able to visit the source - they asked to record our C-630 but the powers that be determined that she wasn't ready to operate under a full load test just yet.
rrinkerI really don;t think Tsunami was anything special by the time it actually arrived.
And apparently not since. Geez Randy, what did Durango ever do or not do to earn such enmity? They just build a decoder, not steal your children, kick your dog, or insult your loved ones. At least give them a chance to get it right -- in your eyes -- before sending them to heck all over again.
A grudge that deep and long sorta begs for more explanation. Or is there a tendency to treat all differences with your opinion as scorched earth? I'm sure glad I'm not the person at the checkout counter who has to ask you, "Paper or plastic?"
gmpullmanMike: I did make a passing comment on the WOWsound, above, but since the OP was only asking about Tsunami vs. Loksound I didn't want to confuse the issue.
Ed,
The title read as Tsu vs Lok, but I read the OP's post as being a bit more open-ended. It might also be the case they weren't aware of the Wow yet since it is so new. Seems worth mentioning, though, as it's definitely a head to head competitor with the other two.
I appreciate your comments on the Wow though. They're a reminder that new tech stuff, for all the cool things they do, often has teething problems. For some reason, maybe Lok didn't, at least no one seems to mention that, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lok did. Nothing at all unusual about that nor should it reflect on the ultimate results once corrected.
Each of these products represented a substantial leap forward when introduced. Sometimes all the loose ends aren't tidied up yet, but I think we'd rather the vendors aim high when bringing new things to market. The bugs are just part of the process with the way things work now. users help with the final testing, whether that was the specific intent or not.
Just simple truth. They announced a decoder that was absolutely revolutionary at the time of announcement. No one else had anything close at the time. The delay is what killed it in my mind. Had Tsunami arrived in time, they may have so overwhelmed the market that others would have had to scrambled to try and catch up to the features. ANd not just in the sound features - many motor only decoders at the time of the Tsunami announcement didn't support things like CV6 for mid speed, so the lack thereof in the Tsunami was no big deal. But by the time Tsunami shipped - even some of the cheapest (in price - the quality is excellent) decoders by NCE have CV2-5-6.
The first time I head a Tsunami was at the NMRA in Philly. Granted it was a large room, but I leaned in close to the Blackstone loco they had a steam decoder in and it was very quiet - at least the bell and whistle. The chuffs were quite good. It was much later when I finally picked up a diesel loco with a Tsunami - and found the horn to be no better than the old DSD-LC decoder I had, no matter how much I tried to adjust the equalizer and reverb. Combined with the startup and lack of prime mover loading, compared to the QSI equipped Trainmaster I had, plus a QSI I installed for someone, I quickly grew tired of running it. The only other thing I had to compare were my Loksound 3.5 equipped steamers, so it wasn't a direct comparison, other than the clarity of the whistle and bell, and the superb motor control.
ANd until the recent Economi release, there's really been nothing new out of Durango. After Tsunami production was ramped up, they went back to finish up Surroundtraxx which was also heavily delayed. Neat, I guess, if you are in N scale and use only Digitrax decoders - but I'm in HO, and as much as I love my Digitrax system, I don't like their motor decoders.
There's not too much, of anything I truly 'bash' unless I've tried it for myself - like MRC sound decoders. I bought one, just to see if they were as bad as people say. ANd found out it's mostly all true - my big beef is the sound and (lack of) support. It hasn't fried, it still can run my loco with so-so motor control and it plays its sounds. I've had no reliability issues, but if what I bought is supposed to sound like an Alco RS-3 like they say, you could have fooled me.
In the meantime, I've gotten more Loksounds. Like the older 3.5, the motor control is awesome, and you can easily adjust the balance of sound levels between the horn, bell, and prime mover so it sounds right. I have no intentions of doing fully customized sounds, although I did take a V4 and change out the horn - the ALco 244 project I installed had a 5 chime horn, my prototype used M3RT1 3 chime horns with the reversed center bell, a horn sound that ESU has in their library. It was actually super easy to change out the original sounds for the new horn. The Select variant of this decoder has the proper horn and it is just a matter of setting one CV to change to the horn I want - so mainly I will be using Select decoders, but the option is there in case I need a combo they don;t sell already.
OK, just checking what the basis of the grudge was. This ain't WWE, so can't follow who's biffing who and why by following the story line. But the whole thing where any time someone makes a less than hostile remark about the Tsunami, no matter how measured, it's time to reload and shoot the horse and rider again...well I don't think of Randy as the Reading Guy, but Randy as the anti-Tsunamiast.
Who knows how bad this might be if they'd rushed the Tsunami to market half-baked (in their eyes, because I know you STILL think it's half-baked)? As if no other model RR product in history has ever been delayed...
I'm moving on and will just ignore this from now on, because it's clear this isn't really about the Tsunami, which nonetheless apparently has thousands of satisfied users, but about dissing Soundtraxx whenever their name is invoked. After awhile, I think everyone understands this and if it makes you feel good, well everyone needs a reason to get out of bed in the morning I suppose.
Well, I am going to offer my two cents worth of option which may not be worth a nickel!
We all have our reasons for choosing one maker of a product over another.
Randy may have be burned with the product, hard to get him to touch the stove again.
I too have a view (preference) of automobiles and many other products too.
I am a GM fan, only owned two other brands in my life. I have had my share of cars & pickups through the years. I have been driving since I was 16 years old. My age? Older than dirt!
Never owned a Chrysler product in my life. My dad (a mechanic) had a real dislike for them. Said that if a dog took a leak on the rear wheel of a Chrysler, (Dodge, DeSoto or a Plymouth) you would never get it started. This was back in the 50’s.
Well I never ever bought one, now, did I miss out on getting a very good auto? I will never know has I never had one to see. That has been my choice.
That is why we all have a choice. We purchase what we like and trust (in our option).
With decoders it is a bit different with our selections. Decoders are not a high dollar investment compared to autos.
So when a new manufacture comes out with a new decoder I give it a try.
So far I have not been disappointed in any that I have purchased so far.
We are very lucky to have so many to choose from. Some better, some easier to change the CV’s and others will fit better. All to our advantage!
Well..... Ford all the way! We sure have coma a long ways in this conversation, haven't we? I guess I will say thanks one more time for all the advice on DECODERS. I am Sue I will go with Lok and buy the programer as well. X mas is coming and the better half will ask what I want. Plz guys just keep it simple.
LOL, Only had one of them. Never again.
BTW I like to support the decoders that are made in the USA. SoundTraxx decoders are all made here in the good old USA.
LocSounds are made in China
Geez..
Sounds like you answered your own question in the first post. You seem to feel Lok sounds and runs the best - there is your answer (all political correctness aside). Get what you like the best - bottom line.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
woodone LOL, Only had one of them. Never again. BTW I like to support the decoders that are made in the USA. SoundTraxx decoders are all made here in the good old USA. LocSounds are made in China
Loksound decoders are NOT made in China ....
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
While I have been a long time tsunami user, I think I may switch to Loksound. I like the way their prime mover spools more than the tsunami. I just purchased my second loksound. As many of you helped me with the programming (even though the issue was with my booster) the learning curve is a bit steep but manageable with JMRI. I may get the lol programmer down the road if I decide I need to load sounds. Luckily the Rio Grande in my time period pretty much had two engines, the 567 and the 645.
I do think Lok has the heat issue figured out which is one of my biggest complaints about the tsunamis.
Colorado Front Range Railroad: http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/
Mark R. woodone LOL, Only had one of them. Never again. BTW I like to support the decoders that are made in the USA. SoundTraxx decoders are all made here in the good old USA. LocSounds are made in China Loksound decoders are NOT made in China .... Mark. Well the packaging I m looking at says other wize. Marked right by the UPC. MADE IN CHINA
Mark R.Loksound decoders are NOT made in China ....
woodone Mark R. woodone LOL, Only had one of them. Never again. BTW I like to support the decoders that are made in the USA. SoundTraxx decoders are all made here in the good old USA. LocSounds are made in China Loksound decoders are NOT made in China .... Mark. Well the packaging I m looking at says other wize. Marked right by the UPC. MADE IN CHINA Mark R. Loksound decoders are NOT made in China ....
Mark R. Loksound decoders are NOT made in China ....
The packaging is, not the decoder itself. It also says ESU is in Muncy Pennsylvania - they're not made there either ....
woodone:
woodoneLOL, Only had one of them. Never again.
I should have elaborated on my reasons for not buying another Tsunami. I installed the one I bought in a Bachmann Spectrum H16-44. To put it simply, I had to go through a lot of programming to get the locomotive to run the way I thought it should. For example, the locomotive would move before the engine sounds would spool up. Whether or not that is prototypical is a subject for a different discussion, but I wanted the engine to rev up a bit just before moving. Even if the prototypes will crawl at idle, they don't rev up without changing the throttle. The Tsunami sound would rev up on speed step one after the locomotive had moved a half inch or so.
Also, slow speed operation was poor to say the least. Several high end CVs had to be fiddled with for that to go away.
Loksound has worked perfectly right out of the box every time, at least for me. Tuning the decoder to the locomotive, if it even needs it, requires the push of one button.
So then, the next time I'm going to drop $100 on a decoder, am I going to buy the one that didn't perform well or the one that did? Nuff said, LOL.