You can buy a smart tablet (android) for a throttle on closeout clearance for $50. All it has to do is have Wi-Fi and a decent browser.
Case in point: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100023021&IsNodeId=1&Description=android&name=All%20Tablets&Order=PRICE&Pagesize=30&isdeptsrh=1As to MRC
They make rock solid power supplies for DC
They unfortunately received a really bad reputation with their sound DCC decoders (feature limited, and always burning out)And the MRC DCC system is limited in expandability. And from what I can tell, the established user base is EXTREMELY small. As such getting support for quirky issues, can be "challenging"
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Which brings up the other point I posted - not all Android phones have the USB port in the same place, so on some models, that thing would be horribly awkward, on others it would eb fine. Plus I don't have nor ever will use an Android phone. A BT device would work with any brand phone. I'm thinking click encoder like on the DT40x throttles, so basic operation would not require ever looking at the phone.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
My Polaroid "tablets" and my Samsung Blaze all have rocker volume controls, so it would seem they aren't *that* uncommon.
But if you really want a rotary knob, you could use one of these. According to this thread, it works with Android devices.
Yes, but no knob for the throttle. Volume rocker if you are lucky, otherwise all touch. Which is the primary complaint against using WiThrottle/Engine Driver. A smartphone case with throttle knob that interfaces via Bluetooth would make this a total reality - by building the electronics to snap in a case, it would be fairly easy to accomodate many models of smartphones.
rrinker As for the gizmo I envision, how is that complictaed? Right now you have DCC throttles with buttons with numbers. Sometimes there is a little horn symbol by the F2 button and a bell by the F1, and a light bulb by the F0, but for everything else you are on your own to remember. Instead of generic F0-F28 labels, my gizmo would say BELL, WHISTLE, BRAKE - plain English names that, when 'pressing' the button, would do whatever the name says. Simple. Not complicated. --Randy
As for the gizmo I envision, how is that complictaed? Right now you have DCC throttles with buttons with numbers. Sometimes there is a little horn symbol by the F2 button and a bell by the F1, and a light bulb by the F0, but for everything else you are on your own to remember. Instead of generic F0-F28 labels, my gizmo would say BELL, WHISTLE, BRAKE - plain English names that, when 'pressing' the button, would do whatever the name says. Simple. Not complicated.
What's so complicated? You have your fleet of say 20 locos stationed at places all over your layout. You want to run #4721. So you press one button, key in the loco's number, and turn the knob and drive.
There seems to be an in-built panic in people that if there are lots of buttons is MUCT be complicated and I can never understand this. For most technical things, this is exactly the opposite of the way it really is. Show someone two different DCC throttles, one with 4 buttons and one with 16. 9 time out of 10, they will say the 16 button one is more complictaed. But the 4 button one requires SHIFT and other combo keypresses to do things, whereas the 16 button one has a button dedicated to each possible operation. No remembering some obscure shift-alt-keypress combos.
DCC is EASY. People MAKE it difficult because they hear you can do a million and one things, and they want to do them all, because someone said you can. They don't know WHY they want to do some things, but they heard you can and so jump right in to the advanced stuff when, like 80% of the features on your microwave, you don't need that stuff to simply run trains.
It was probably easier to run an actual steam locomotive, that run a model with all the latest gizmos.
The wireless phone throttle app used with JMRI in many cases uses the physical volume buttons on your phone for the throttle as well as having the touch slider, so you have physical control you cna use without looking at the phone, instead watching your train. They also have switch mode options where once the loco stops, continuing to press the down button starts it moving in reverse, so nothing to touch or click where you need to glance away to find a direction button, either. That's something even my Digitrax knob throttles don't have, but lucily you can reverse simply by clicking the same knob you are turning, so still no fumbling for a direction button or switch. That's one the always gets me on the "Digitrax is so complicated" arguments - 99% of the time I am running a train, and especially on the club layout which is fully signaled, my throttle is at my side, my thumb on the knob to control speed and direction, and my eyes are on my train and the track ahead (less worry now but in the early days people weren't used to the signals and would just keep on going past a red so you had to pay attention even if you had a clear signal. AFter a few years, people now know to follow the signal indications and not just freely run). I'm not looking at my throttle.
With modern touch screens, I see the ideal throttle as a hybrid. Knobs for speed and direction, coupled with a conext based touch screen that displays large, clear areas to touch with labels - like Whistle, Bell, Lights, etc - not F0, F1, F2. You cna do this today with JMRI, except for having a physical knob on the throttle. This would be something like the Digitrax DT40x series, but where all the buttons are would be a touch screen, perhaps using something high contrast and easy to read like e-ink rather than any fancy color LCD or OLED stuff that draws too much power. Regardless of which function does what in a given loco, the button layout would remain the same so you could easily operate without looking. If for whatever reason you still used the throttle to program, when you switched to program mode, the button labels would all change to programming related operations, and so forth. Basically combining what you can do today with JMRI and WiThrottle/Engine Driver with a physical knob that most people want. Digitrax actually had something close to this back in their early days, when the Palm PDAs were popular, it was a knob/Loconet interface that plugged into the port on the bottom of the Palm device and then plugged in like any other Digitrax throttle. The knob was the speed control, and turning function on and off happened on the touch screen. But it didn;t sell, and when Palms went the way of the Dodo bird, they discontinued it. Such a device might be possible today, but it would have to connect to the phone via Bluetooth since outside of Apple there is no standardized placing of the interface connector. That would mean generic electronics that work with any Bluetooth phone with a custom case to fit various phone models - entirely possible but there remains the issue that the model railroad market is very small so who's going to take the risk?
JimInMichiganIf thats correct, then why are so many people with NCE and Digitrax buying an extra little box so they can hook up thier command station to a computer so they can use JMRI? Seems to me JMRI must have something that the other 2 do not.
I think I miss-understood what you meant - I thought you meant Sprog with JMRI vs the others with JMRI - if you meant the others standalone, then I concede your point.
JimInMichiganAs for throttle choices, with JMRi you have a variety of sizes of handhelds available. The only difference I can see is actual tactical buttons vs touch screens.
The actual physical buttons and throttle knob are the main reason why I would never consider Sprog as my main DCC system. Especially when switching, I like to be able keep my eyes on the train and manipulate the throttle strictly by feel. I also wouldn't like having to fire up the computer to run trains.
CSX Robert JimInMichigan ...A Sprog and JMRI can do more than the other 2 mentioned ( from what I have researched, I could be wrong )... No, a Sprog cannot not do more than the others. In fact, the others can do more when you consider that with the sprog your only option for throttles is JMRI while the others also have their hardware throttles (I still prefer a throttle with a physical knob and buttons).
JimInMichigan ...A Sprog and JMRI can do more than the other 2 mentioned ( from what I have researched, I could be wrong )...
No, a Sprog cannot not do more than the others. In fact, the others can do more when you consider that with the sprog your only option for throttles is JMRI while the others also have their hardware throttles (I still prefer a throttle with a physical knob and buttons).
If thats correct, then why are so many people with NCE and Digitrax buying an extra little box so they can hook up thier command station to a computer so they can use JMRI? Seems to me JMRI must have something that the other 2 do not.
As for throttle choices, with JMRi you have a variety of sizes of handhelds available. The only difference I can see is actual tactical buttons vs touch screens. How a throttle feels in one's hand is a personal preference, much like how one golf club or tennis racket or handgun can feel better in a persons hand over another manufacture of same item. Some people are willing to pay more money to get what feels right in thier hands, and at times, I am no exception.
I'm a current E-Z Command user. I chose it for simplicy and cheap cost. I know it can not do anything near what NCE and Digitrax can. I like it. BUT, I now want wireless. Bachmann has a new interface coming out that will just plug into my command and poof, i got wireless. BUT, at what cost? $50, I might buy it. $100+, I will consider Sprog+JMRI because I can get into wireless for the same $100-$130 ( depending on the amp's I want ). JMRI gives me a throttle thats much simplified ( like my E-Z command ). Too many buttons to remember and click on the others. And, if i want to learn to do more, the option is there.
JimInMichigan...A Sprog and JMRI can do more than the other 2 mentioned ( from what I have researched, I could be wrong )...
If you get bored, you will be able to run with smatphone/tablet when Bachmann comes out with the new add on box for the EZ Command. Technology is always on the move.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I see no mention of the SPROG ll ( 1 amp, $100 ) or Sprog lll ( 3 amp, $130 ) paired with JMRI ( free ). No need for any other " extra's " to make it work with JMRI ( unlike NCE or Digitrax ). A Sprog and JMRI can do more than the other 2 mentioned ( from what I have researched, I could be wrong ). All 3, you still need a computer and wireless router. And when your ready for more power, a 5 amp booster from Tam Valley is $60.
I am on the fence of upgrading to Sprog lll and JMRI, from my Bachmann E-Z.
Hello All,
As a lone wolf modeler I went with a system that makes most others wince. (Insert snarky comments here.)
I went with the Bachmann Dynamis infrared wireless system. I have a 4x8 table top pike. I mounted the reciever on the wall above the layout. This gives better line of sight communication between the handset and reciever. I also bought the 5-amp booster. This extra oomph comes in handy when running multiple consists.
The MSRP listed on the Bachmann website is unrealistic. I searched on eBay and found the Dynamis base system new in a factory sealed box for $134.00. I found a used booster for $200.00.
The drawback of this system is that you cannot read CV's. You can program CV's. My motive power uses Bachmann installed decoders and I have installed Digitrax and TCS decoders in some locomotives. All with no compatibility issues.
You can purchase a ProBox that will allow you to read CV's. This is a pricey item. Rather than going that route I purchased a MRC Decoder Dr. to read and program CV's on a separate test track.
Yes, for the same amount of money I could have bought another system but for me this works and works well.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
MRC prodigy wireless.Almost as easy to use as straight dc transformer.
SInce the Zephyr Xtra supports 22 locos and cabs, you can get pretty big and still use the Zephyr as the command station. You'd need a booster or two to run 22 locos, but the command station capacity of the Zephyr is pretty good. You could do something like what I did for my previous layout, the Zephyr was the command station and track power from it ran my accessory decoders (Tam Valley Singlets, for servos) only. I have a DB150 which provided track power. My Zephyr is the original one, so it only runs up to 12 locos - not exceeded on my spare-room size layout replciating a branch with only one train in each direction, plus a (not finished) cement plant wih its own in-plant switcher. I will be upgrading for my under design basement size layout. Not sure what I will do with my old Zephyr, my test track has a PR3 for programming and if I change that out for anything it will be for an SPROG which can program and run trains.
The assumption has to be a smaller layout. If he is just busting into DCC I would go with the digitrax Zephyr extra. Street price can be as low as under $125, used even less and there is expandability. Not a lot lost if later he wishes to move out to walk-around as his empire grows. Walk-around seems a bit silly on a small road in a small space. The zephyr can be relegated to program track use and testing much later if the walk around becomes important on a bigger layout.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
I have been using MRC Prodigy DCC since 2004 with no complaints.
Bob Bochenek
After enough complaints, possibly by reading the forums here and the number of times anyone who has done DCC for a long time said to skip MRC because it doesn;t support JMRI MRC gave in, and JMRI now has support for MRC.
What I still don;t like about MRC is their complete lack of information. Those ads they rean featuring a club that used MRC - I really would love to know how they did it, since there is little to no technical information on expanding the system to club-size in the manuals. Sure, the manual is simple, and common instructions are on the back of the throttle - not that any of the others couldn;t do the same, because the basic operations like selecting and running a train are simple with ALL systems, and nearly identical, except for what the label might be on the button you push. Some say "select", some say "loco", etc. You can download the manuals for all the major systems. MRC's is the smallest. Sure, it's simple - but the problem is they don;t tell you anything past the basics. All the others have a quick start section at the front of the manual PLUS all the technical details you might want to know after becoming familiar with basic operation.
The real gotcha? When you do want to expand for a larger layout, there's only a brief mention in the MRC manual about needing powered cab jacks. No one else hides the fact that after the wires get long enough and/or you have enough cabs plugged in, you need to supplant the power in the cab bus because you can only draw so much current through thin telephone wires. And most charge about $15 for each extension jack. MRC's are like $40. And MRC uses what should be, in this day of everything networked, much more common (and therefore less expensive) RJ45 jacks for their throttle bus. The 6P6C jacks used by Digitrax and NCE are relics of the analog office phone days and hardly used anywhere else these days - I have a box ful of Loconet cables I snagged over 7 years ago when we ripped out our analog phone system and went IP phone. I snagged a phone and took it apart but there weren't too many useful and easily salvaged parts so i ended up just saving all the wall cords. Sure, you cna get them from numerous sources, but standard Ethernet jacks should be cheaper.
And there is a whole other ball of wax with their sound decoders..
ricktrains4824 >> Actually, the OP won't choose the MRC System... He stated he wants to use a JMRI WiThrottle, so MRC, which does not support JMRI, is already ruled out by the OP..... >>
>>
Actually, the OP won't choose the MRC System... He stated he wants to use a JMRI WiThrottle, so MRC, which does not support JMRI, is already ruled out by the OP.....
ricktrains4824 So, I stick by my suggestion of Digitrax Zephyr Xtra, with a Locobuffer, so he can use the WiThrottle through JMRI, and be able to expand later on. No need to spend big $$$ on a wireless throttle, or even a tethered throttle, as the WiThrottle will give him the wireless walk around throttle on his (presumed) already owned smart phone/tablet. If, the OP decides, later on as part of the expansion, he can add in an extra throttle (or two).
So, I stick by my suggestion of Digitrax Zephyr Xtra, with a Locobuffer, so he can use the WiThrottle through JMRI, and be able to expand later on. No need to spend big $$$ on a wireless throttle, or even a tethered throttle, as the WiThrottle will give him the wireless walk around throttle on his (presumed) already owned smart phone/tablet. If, the OP decides, later on as part of the expansion, he can add in an extra throttle (or two).
Alton Junction
bagal Remember this is someone new to DCC, has a (presumably) small layout, and is not a member of a club. If you gave both Digitrax and MRC systems to someone completely new to DCC to try, there is a good chance that they would actually prefer MRC.
Remember this is someone new to DCC, has a (presumably) small layout, and is not a member of a club.
If you gave both Digitrax and MRC systems to someone completely new to DCC to try, there is a good chance that they would actually prefer MRC.
I am not knowledgable on NCE systems, so will defer to others on them, but they will also work with JMRI.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
If the OP wants to run ONE DC loco, the Digitrax Zephyr would be nice. Annoying motor buzz but it can be done. Motor does get hot when the loco is sitting still though. Yeah, opened another can of worms.
Choices.
CSX Robert cacole For what the OP has, the Crest Electronics' Train Engineer would be sufficient -- wireless control of a DC layout. Uhhh no. - brakeman618 So My initial reasoning for DCC is sound... I don't think Crest Electronics' Train Engineer is going to give him control of sound.
cacole For what the OP has, the Crest Electronics' Train Engineer would be sufficient -- wireless control of a DC layout.
Uhhh no. -
brakeman618 So My initial reasoning for DCC is sound...
I don't think Crest Electronics' Train Engineer is going to give him control of sound.
It can do sound. I Googled it but pricey.
cacoleFor what the OP has, the Crest Electronics' Train Engineer would be sufficient -- wireless control of a DC layout.
brakeman618So My initial reasoning for DCC is sound...
MRC has a reputation for lack of expandability. Their older sound decoders are well known for being "problematic" and not very realiable.So unfortunately they have a bad rep.IF you were going to go walk around, I would go with either NCE or Digitrax.If you have an old spare windows PC around, and you connect it to a wireless network you can run JMRI with the handheld throttle app (accesible from your smart phone) (You will have to buy the computer interface made by NCE or Digitrax)My old club used NCE. And unfortunately we had nothing but problems with burned out boosters and broken off throttle antennas. The throttles were just poorly designed as they weren't very serviceable. The boosters might have been a wiring issue we could never track down, but breakers never tripped. Everything was properly grounded with #12 wire. So I'm suspect of the cause.
For what the OP has, the Crest Electronics' Train Engineer would be sufficient -- wireless control of a DC layout.
The very basic Crest system is a module that connects between a power pack and track, to allow wireless control of speed and direction of a DC locomotive.
Thanks, Randy.
richhotrain rrinker He also says he has a wireless phone that could be used as a throttle. That means JMRI and an appropriate interface for whatever system. SO walkaround wireless control does NOT need a PH-Pro Wireless system, or a Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio system. PowerCab and interface + JMRI on his computer, or a Zephyr Xtra and interface + JMRI an he has wireless walkaround control. --Randy I have to plead ignorance to that concept since I don't have a smart phone, and I don't use JMRI. Let's say that he has the NCE PH-Pro system, but not wireless. If someone uses a smart phone and JMRI, do you use the smart phone as the throttle or the Pro Cab? Rich
rrinker He also says he has a wireless phone that could be used as a throttle. That means JMRI and an appropriate interface for whatever system. SO walkaround wireless control does NOT need a PH-Pro Wireless system, or a Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio system. PowerCab and interface + JMRI on his computer, or a Zephyr Xtra and interface + JMRI an he has wireless walkaround control. --Randy
He also says he has a wireless phone that could be used as a throttle. That means JMRI and an appropriate interface for whatever system.
SO walkaround wireless control does NOT need a PH-Pro Wireless system, or a Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio system. PowerCab and interface + JMRI on his computer, or a Zephyr Xtra and interface + JMRI an he has wireless walkaround control.
I have to plead ignorance to that concept since I don't have a smart phone, and I don't use JMRI.
Let's say that he has the NCE PH-Pro system, but not wireless. If someone uses a smart phone and JMRI, do you use the smart phone as the throttle or the Pro Cab?
Both. And the limits of JMRI and wireless routers generally exceed those of any DCC system, or certainly the practical limits of any DCC system (does it matter if a system can support 1024 cabs, when if you were actually running that many locos/consists the lag for controlling them would be unbearable?), you can have others come over and join as well. ANyone with an APple or Androind smartphone can run the approriate app and connect via wifi (does not use phone minutes or data plan) and operate a train. You can mix and match - someone with a tethered ProCAB can run one train, maybe you have two wireless ProCABs, they can each run a train, and 5 friends with smartphones can run 5 more trains. Nothing special needed - just the computer interface for your DCC system, for PH-PRO, a USB to serial adapter, for PowerCAB the NCE USB, for Digitrax a PR3 or LocoBuffer-USB, etc., JMRI software, and a wireless router, which you probably already have if you have some sort of internet connection. The phones and tablets being used don;t even have to be activated for cellular service, so you can use an old one. Sometimes there are cheap Android phones available for as little as $30 with no contract for cellular service - they work fine as wireless throttles, and you can't beat the price. Cheaper than even the most basic cabs from NCE and Digitrax and MRC. Of course, not everyone likes a touch interface so it's not for everyone.