Yeah, I don't have any Paragon anythings, I got my Reading T1s as the original PCM offering with Loksound decoders. I'm pushing it so as it is to include them in my era (by a year or 2, so not a huge application of modeler's license) so I ha dno reason to get the re-release with Paragon 2 or the latest Paragon 3 ones. Two's enough, and as a Rush (the band from Canada) fan, I have my 2112. Which SO tempts me to replace one of the sounds with a clip from the song.... maybe the second whistle, which I never use. I DO have a Lokprogrammer........
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
richhotrain Unfortunately, I don't own any BLI locomotives with the Paragon 3 decoder, so I am unable to test for the fault that occurs in Paragon 2 decoders. Anyone out there with a Paragon 3, willing to perform the test? Rich
Unfortunately, I don't own any BLI locomotives with the Paragon 3 decoder, so I am unable to test for the fault that occurs in Paragon 2 decoders.
Anyone out there with a Paragon 3, willing to perform the test?
Rich
Ive got one or two. Ive just been lazy about it. Not wanting to have to hook up the tender to the locomotive.
BLI told me that they were going to perform the test on Paragon 3.
Alton Junction
Well, Rich confirmed it, it's a bug that appears in other Paragon 2 decoders as well. Would have been my guess that it appears across all of them, outside of the sound files there's little reason why they would have different firmware for each loco model.
Now - did they fix it with Paragon 3, or does it still exist there? The only real difference in the decoders is the addition of the radio to transmit the bass to the Rolling Thunder subwoofer, and that's probably all on or past the audio stage, shouldn't have required any changes to the motor drive and NMRA DCC packet decoder portion of the decoder, unless they realized there was a bug in Paragon 2 and fixed it.
rrinker The only way they can fix that is a new decoder with new firmware, as we figured out pages ago, it's a serious bug in their firmware based on certain bit patterns appearing in a specified address. I'm curious if the same thing happened in a different BLI loco - one would typically never address it with the address you are using because it doesn't match the cab number but the decoders likely all have the same firmware. Anyone else with the same vintage BLI loco want to give it a try and see if theirs acts strange as well? Even if it works fine on the address you normally use. --Randy
The only way they can fix that is a new decoder with new firmware, as we figured out pages ago, it's a serious bug in their firmware based on certain bit patterns appearing in a specified address.
I'm curious if the same thing happened in a different BLI loco - one would typically never address it with the address you are using because it doesn't match the cab number but the decoders likely all have the same firmware. Anyone else with the same vintage BLI loco want to give it a try and see if theirs acts strange as well? Even if it works fine on the address you normally use.
Randy,
Ive got 4 BLI Paragon 2 locomotives. They all do this. And I doubt based on the conversation I had that they are going to fix this. They arent making Paragon 2 anymore, and Im the only one who has reported the problem.
Tested, not fixed. Will be contacting BLI.
Hi all,
I guess I should give you all an update. The layout probably isnt going to happen. I have recently had a job change. I have left my $35.60 an hour job for one that pays $10.10 an hour to maintain my sanity. This was my choice, but this has a few side effects (no hobby dollars).
Next chance I get to run the locomotive on DCC I will let you know.
richhotrain My system is an NCE PH-Pro. I don't recall if you mentioned your DCC system. Perhaps, the Direction button on your throttle is not working correctly. Rich
My system is an NCE PH-Pro. I don't recall if you mentioned your DCC system. Perhaps, the Direction button on your throttle is not working correctly.
So sorry I wasn't following the thread, but I have an NCE Power Pro started set with an SB5 booster. Nothing much different from what others are using.
Anyway, thanks Rich and Randy...
Bump (waiting for updates, wish I could help with his layout...)
WP Lives
softail86mark softail86mark ...Personally, I'll be checking all my Paragon 2s tomorrow... Okay, I checked all one of them (in a row...I thought I had a pile of them, but, alas they're Paragon (1).) Anyway, the only thing I can add is, running 28 forward, switching 128 stays forward, change direction, goes reverse, change direction again...STAYS REVERSE. Strange. I'll wait to see what BMMECNYC...gets from BLI. Or his new layout.
softail86mark ...Personally, I'll be checking all my Paragon 2s tomorrow...
...Personally, I'll be checking all my Paragon 2s tomorrow...
Okay, I checked all one of them (in a row...I thought I had a pile of them, but, alas they're Paragon (1).)
Anyway, the only thing I can add is, running 28 forward, switching 128 stays forward, change direction, goes reverse, change direction again...STAYS REVERSE. Strange. I'll wait to see what BMMECNYC...gets from BLI. Or his new layout.
Regarding your issue with the Paragon 1, I have a number of locomotives with the Paragon 1 decoder, so I tested several of them using the directional and speed step sequence that you used. All performed correctly and none of them failed to respond to the direction button. Whenever I toggled the Direction button, the loco changed direction as intended.
Thanks Randy, did not know that.
Paragon 1's are QSI decoders, completely different. Paragon 2 is BLI's first go at making their own decoder, Paragon 3 is a slightly updated version, mostly adding the radio link to send low frequency sounds to the Rolling Thunder subwoofer.
softail86mark I'm bumping this hoping we don't forget this strange behavior. Personally, I'll be checking all my Paragon 2s tomorrow. I'm going to sleep now since it's 3:30. Man, I love this forum...
I'm bumping this hoping we don't forget this strange behavior. Personally, I'll be checking all my Paragon 2s tomorrow. I'm going to sleep now since it's 3:30.
Man, I love this forum...
In my 15 years on the forum, this was perhaps the most interesting, albeit bizarre, thread to ever appear on the forum. It certainly was a lot of fun doing the detective work necessary to solve this issue.
Well,
I quit the club I was in, so I dont have a layout on which to operate them. The old decoders went back to BLI before Christmas.
My current modular layout will not support six axle locomotives by design.
I'll update you all when I finally get the home railroad up and running.
BMMECNYC Well, two years later. The new boards are in.
Well, two years later. The new boards are in.
BMMECNYC After reading about other people having paragon 3 problems, I recalled this thread and decided to update you guys. I recently purchased a railroad space which happens to have other rooms on top of it (some of which are more railroad spaces). I have not had time to replace the boards.
After reading about other people having paragon 3 problems, I recalled this thread and decided to update you guys. I recently purchased a railroad space which happens to have other rooms on top of it (some of which are more railroad spaces).
I have not had time to replace the boards.
BMMECNYC rrinker I can't imagine ANYONE testing every possible long address to validate their code. It took long enought to go through and test half of the 36 suspect addresses to check for the error. I cant imagine trying to test ~10k address. One would go bonkers. Decoders arrived in my mailbox today. Might install and test one or two tomorrow. Will let you guys know.
rrinker I can't imagine ANYONE testing every possible long address to validate their code.
It took long enought to go through and test half of the 36 suspect addresses to check for the error. I cant imagine trying to test ~10k address. One would go bonkers.
Decoders arrived in my mailbox today. Might install and test one or two tomorrow. Will let you guys know.
rrinkerI can't imagine ANYONE testing every possible long address to validate their code.
I'll attempt to explain my theory a little better.
28 and 128 speed steps use the same setting in CV29. It is up to the decoder to interpret the differences in the NMRA DCC packet to tell if it is a 28 speed step packet or a 128 speed step packet.
The 128 speed step packet is completely different from a 28 speed step packet, 128SS uses the extended packet format. So this can easily explain why the loco worked fine with 28SS but not 128SS - there are different routines to decode and respond to the packets. Now, thre is a type of extended packet that actually encodes a direction, among other possible commands, in 3 bits. The pattern for reverse though is 010, forward is 011. Maybe with soem more digging the error in BLI's decoder will reveal itself, but it wasn't quite this obvious. At issue was CV18 having a value of 63, bit pattern 0011 1111. Somehow this bit pattern for the address was being masked against the wrong part of the extended format packet and makign all speed commands appear to be ones for the reverse direction. A different pattern in CV18, thus a different long address, seemed ok, as did using 28SS so avoiding the extended format packet altogether.Still an interesting puzzle as to the exact cause, but only BLI will be able to determine that as no one else has the source code for their decoders to examine and see where the mistake may be. I AM pretty confident that this is all it is, a slight coding error, perhaps the wrong variable used, or bits transposed somewhere. That is only shows up when CV18 has a specific value, it's easy to see how this could go overlooked in testing. With the way CV17/18 work for long addresses, it's only very specific addresses that end up with CV18 = 63, while thousands of other addresses have a different value for CV18. I can't imagine ANYONE testing every possible long address to validate their code.
BMMECNYC wjstix Just to be sure I'm following...when the engine / decoder is set for 128 speed steps, it runs in reverse of the direction it should, right? So, have you tried at that point reading CV29, and reprogramming that CV to one number higher (or lower) and see what happens? So if CV 29 is 34, change it to 35? If changing one CV has somehow reversed the polarity of the DC power going from the decoder to the motor, I'd think changing CV29 by one number would fix it...or just swap around the wires going to the motor. Stix, No. That was literally the first thing I tried over a year ago. It only runs in reverse. CV29 has not effect on this problem. On 28 speed steps there are no issues. The problem has something to do with CV 18 having a value of 63. No idea why. It has been confirmed on my NCE system, Rich's system, and I believe Randy's system as well. and both NCE and Digitrax systems at BLI. Of the 10,000 possible addresses, 36 have this glitch.
wjstix Just to be sure I'm following...when the engine / decoder is set for 128 speed steps, it runs in reverse of the direction it should, right? So, have you tried at that point reading CV29, and reprogramming that CV to one number higher (or lower) and see what happens? So if CV 29 is 34, change it to 35? If changing one CV has somehow reversed the polarity of the DC power going from the decoder to the motor, I'd think changing CV29 by one number would fix it...or just swap around the wires going to the motor.
Just to be sure I'm following...when the engine / decoder is set for 128 speed steps, it runs in reverse of the direction it should, right? So, have you tried at that point reading CV29, and reprogramming that CV to one number higher (or lower) and see what happens? So if CV 29 is 34, change it to 35? If changing one CV has somehow reversed the polarity of the DC power going from the decoder to the motor, I'd think changing CV29 by one number would fix it...or just swap around the wires going to the motor.
Stix,
No. That was literally the first thing I tried over a year ago. It only runs in reverse. CV29 has not effect on this problem. On 28 speed steps there are no issues. The problem has something to do with CV 18 having a value of 63. No idea why. It has been confirmed on my NCE system, Rich's system, and I believe Randy's system as well. and both NCE and Digitrax systems at BLI. Of the 10,000 possible addresses, 36 have this glitch.
4 new Paragon 2 decoders should be arriving in the mail today (one for each Paragon 2 locomotive I own).
If they don't work I will likely replace All 4 decoders with TCS Wow sound or Loksound, and return all 8 decoders to BLI.
That's very good news.
Keep us posted on the outcome.
Well it seems they think they have it fixed. The nice lady on the other end of the phone call seemed to think they fixed it at some point (yahoo likely conveniently deleted their email informing me of such developments, which happens from time to time). She will talk to Joe (see my previous email in post form) and see if the replacement decoders they have will fix the problem. If so, they will send them to me.
Any more issues and the locomotives are getting TCS WOW sound decoders...