I bring this up because of two recent reviews of DCC locos (those of you without electronic subscription or an All Access Pass should be getting yours shortly). In said reviews, one loco started at 6 smph on step 1 when in 28 step mode, and the other started at 4 smph. When used with 128 speed steps, it was now 2 smph and 1 smph, respectively.
I've always used 128 speed steps, it's the Digitrax default. Given finer control AND better start speeds even before manipulating CV settings, why WOULDN'T you use 128 speed steps?
Perhaps this is why I am in no rush to do fancy speed matching for my locos, because with 128 steps they are much closer without configuration than they would ever be with only 28 steps?
I remember back in the early days of proposals for a standard, the early Lenz system that was highly in the running had only 14 steps. Most of the other command control systems had a much finer control. The Lenz/DCC proponents would always state things like how typical American diesels only have 8 speed steps. Yes, but they also have hundreds and even thousands of tons of momentum to smooth out those coarse adjustments. Thankfully some with a bit more technical grasp prevailed and 28 steps was included from the start, and 128 steps added not long after.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I think my Lenz system defaults to 28 steps. I started with that and never tried 128. It works well enough for me. I don't want to be pushing the same button so many more times just to get tiny increments of speed.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley I think my Lenz system defaults to 28 steps. I started with that and never tried 128. It works well enough for me. I don't want to be pushing the same button so many more times just to get tiny increments of speed.
Rich
Alton Junction
Digitrax, so 128. Between Zephyr, and DT402, no push-buttons for speed, it's all turn nobs.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I'm also a Digitrax user and although I've experimented with 28 steps I find that 128 is much better for switching and other tasks where closer control of speed is desired. I also prefer the encoder knobs over push buttons.
I also use Digitrax, so my default is 128 steps.
And since I use either DT400's with encoders (and ballistic tracking) or Android devices with rocker-switch volume controls, "pushing the same button so many more times" isn't an issue.
Works great and gives me fine control. No reason to drop it down to 14 or 28 speed steps.
ricktrains4824 Digitrax, so 128. Between Zephyr, and DT402, no push-buttons for speed, it's all turn nobs.
To clarify, you can use pushbuttons for speed with the DT402 (I generally use the buttons when switching).
I use 128 speed steps for the finer control, especially when switching.
rrinkerPerhaps this is why I am in no rush to do fancy speed matching for my locos, because with 128 steps they are much closer without configuration than they would ever be with only 28 steps?
The choice of 28 or 128 speed steps should have no bearing on how well the locos are speed matched (as long as they are using the same setting).
I prefer the 128 speed steps, the reason being, if I have more than one train running, I can fine tune them so that "ne'er the twain shall meet".
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Some very well known modellers use 14 speed steps with LOTS of momentum. If you think about it, real engines only have eight notches, not 128 !
I tried it once myself, and while it did take a bit of getting used to, the realism far surpassed that of having full control of 128 steps with minimum momentum. Try it .... you might be surprised at how you really have to improve your handling of your train. Another realistic aspect is that with sound engines set to 14 speed steps, the engine notches up with each speed step - even more realistic !
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Digitrax, 128 speed steps, I prefer slow geared steam speeds.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
My Digitrax Zephyr is set to 128 speed steps? I guess I learn something new every day. I really don't care that real diesels had only 8 notches. I feel it's more important to have realistic speed than realistic throttles. Control is key for me.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP
If you want to experiment with 28 or 14 speed steps you can use your Zephyr to "Status Edit" so that the command station will send 28 or 14 speed dteps to a particular locos decoder. This is covered in your Zephyr manual and is handy for locos that have decoders that won't use the higher speed steps. You can also set your Zephyr to broadcast 28 or 14 speed steps to all locos but I wouldn't recommend it.
Joe
JoeinPAIf you want to experiment with 28 or 14 speed steps
It has been my understanding that operating in 14 speed step mode causes difficulties with some functions or operations of decoders.
Yes it does with some. But some of the older decoders (MRC, etc) will work. With the newer decoders on 28 steps I have found that step one on my DT400r is 3 clicks or more while with 128 they respond to 1 click.
I use the DB150 for the Digitrax Super Empire Builder model with two DT400's (Gawd, but I love that throttle!!!) So, I'm always using 128, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I programme each locomotive with lots of value in both CV's 3 and 4. I can zip dial my throttle all the way up to 60 or something, reach for my coffee, and just enjoy the agonizing acceleration for the next 30 seconds or more.
It's hard to drink from a cup and grin at the same time. Ever tried it?
maxman JoeinPA If you want to experiment with 28 or 14 speed steps It has been my understanding that operating in 14 speed step mode causes difficulties with some functions or operations of decoders.
JoeinPA If you want to experiment with 28 or 14 speed steps
As long as both the decoder and command station are configured for 14 steps, the functions all work correctly.
On the NCE systems, you can throttle to 14 steps, but if CV29 is not programmed for 14 steps, funny things happen.
Yes, everything should work with 14 speed steps as long as you set CV29 correctly. Remember, the option in CV29 is for 14 steps or 28/128 - there is no decoder configuration change for 28 vs 128, that distinction is strictly from the command station side. A 14 step DCC packet is slightly different in format, so the decoder needs to be told which type to expect, the older 14 speed step version, or the newer 28/128 version.
Odd man out. 1024 speed steps on my Rail Pro. With a dash of momentum it is a delight. No sensation of steps at all. Smoooooth across the full range.
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
You don't get an option when you advanced consist. It's 28 speeds steps or nothing if I recall correctly.
But I think 128 speed steps should be used. Especially when doing switching operations.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Mark R. If you think about it, real engines only have eight notches, not 128 !
If you think about it, real engines only have eight notches, not 128 !
Oh, really?:
Ed
DigitalGriffinYou don't get an option when you advanced consist. It's 28 speeds steps or nothing if I recall correctly.
Nope, an advanced consist can be run with 14, 28, or 128 speed steps.
CSX Robert DigitalGriffin You don't get an option when you advanced consist. It's 28 speeds steps or nothing if I recall correctly. Nope, an advanced consist can be run with 14, 28, or 128 speed steps.
DigitalGriffin You don't get an option when you advanced consist. It's 28 speeds steps or nothing if I recall correctly.
My ESU EcoS system dfaults to 128 speed steps for a consist and there's no way to change it to anything else.
7j43k Mark R. If you think about it, real engines only have eight notches, not 128 ! Oh, really?: Ed
Oh yeah .... well .... I only run diesels, so I forgot to take steam into consideration - totally different animal in that regard !
Baldwin diesel air throttles have a lot more than 8 notches as well. I say 'have' because there are still some running with the original Baldwin prime movers.
rrinker Baldwin diesel air throttles have a lot more than 8 notches as well. I say 'have' because there are still some running with the original Baldwin prime movers. --Randy
That's true too, and Loksound's file for the Baldwin has additional notches (14 I believe) to smooth out the transitions. They weren't actually a notched throttle, but an air throttle that behaved like that of the throttle in your car with an almost infinite adjustment. That's why the additional notches in the Loksound decoder, to try and smooth out the steps so they weren't as distinct - kinda tough to create on a digital device.
Yes, quite impressive - it even had traction control. There was an air operated variable resistor controlling the main generator excitation so even if you yanked the throttle from stop to full, the loco wouldn;t take off an yank out the drawbars or spin its wheels, it still accelerated smoothly. Not that it was recommened to run them this way and rely on all that, but smooth easy starts were much easier than with other locos. Only problem - it was a LOT more complicated than the others, and complicated things with many pieces that can break are not welcome around railroads. Details here: http://baldwindiesels.railfan.net/throttle/index.html
I may have to call you guys on the 28 speed steps in advanced consist mode.The throttle may say 0-127, but in reality consist was invented before 128 steps was a standard feature. As engines may be mixed and matched, (You can run 14/28 and 128 step engines on the same layout) they default to the greatest common speed (28 steps)
I'll look at the track signal protocol tonight and tell you.
DigitalGriffin...The throttle may say 0-127, but in reality consist was invented before 128 steps was a standard feature...
I don't remember which came first, advanced consists or 128 speed steps, but it doesn't really matter. When the command station is sending commands to an advanced consist, all it's really doing is sending the commands to a primary ("2-digit") address, which it can do using 14, 28, or 128 speed steps and the loco will respond appropriately as long as it supports the speed steps and is configured correctly.
If you use the command station functions to build an advanced consist and select and run that consist, then it may vary from command station to command station as far as what speed steps it uses. Regardless of how the command station wants to handle it, you can always program CV19 manually and just select the consist address as you would any other address and run it using whatever speed steps you want.