Is it best to place the speaker facing down on the bottom of the tender chassis?
How about facing up throught the load of coal?
Any other best positions?
I find that even in the bigger tenders, there is not all that much room due to the size and placement of the decoder and the weight sheet.
Any and all advice would be appreciated.
Rich
Alton Junction
Well.....If You put it facing up under the coal load, you would have to drill holes in the coal to let the sound out, which would not look too cool, so I guess the bottom would be the easiest.
Take Care!
Frank
zstripe Well.....If You put it facing up under the coal load, you would have to drill holes in the coal to let the sound out, which would not look too cool, so I guess the bottom would be the easiest. Take Care! Frank
I have seen three different methods.
I use two methods. One is the traditional with the speaker firing out through holes in the bottom of the tender.
One method I have is the speaker under the coal load firing down. The tender frame is solid. the coal load has a bunch of tiny holes drilled in it with a thin coating of white glue and coal dust sprinkled on it. Sound comes out of the rear of the speaker also and is sealed from the from inside thee tender. I saw an article by Bruce, formerly of Litchfield Station DCC using that method.
Remember, what is Best for you is what sounds Best to you. Best sometimes depends on experimentation.
Some people turn the speaker opposite but the front is still isolated from the rear.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Richg1998,
I do agree that there are many ways to mount a speaker.....but the best sound will always come out the front of the speaker. Pizo speakers the sound can only come out the front. I don't believe they make them small enough to fit in a HO scale tender though. Been awhile since I've messed with any. Wasn't there a thread not long ago about the cube speakers? I would probably use those.
I'm less interested at this point in the brand or type of speaker.
My concern right now is for the ideal location inside the tender for the best sound.
Should the speaker opening be in the top, bottom, front or back of the tender?
The bottom......that's the less noticeable place to drill the holes to let the sound out. If You don't drill holes somewhere, it will sound like talking with a bucket over Your head.
True, but if you recall my original post, on the steamers that I want to add sound to, the bottom provides the least space due to the placement of the decoder and the sheet of metal used to add weight to the tender.
I am curious where people have installed speakers in the tender other than on the bottom and whether other locations for the opening have proved satisfactory.
I understood Your post perfectly. If there were no holes already drilled through the metal weight, then You have to drill some or remove the flat weight and add different weight to go around the speaker. Wherever You put it.....You still need to have holes for the sound to come out. You were in a disscussion like this one before. The easiest is the bottom in a tender.
zstripe I understood Your post perfectly. If there were no holes already drilled through the metal weight, then You have to drill some or remove the flat weight and add different weight to go around the speaker. Wherever You put it.....You still need to have holes for the sound to come out. You were in a disscussion like this one before. The easiest is the bottom in a tender. Take Care! Frank
richg1998 One method I have seen is the speaker under the coal load firing down.
One method I have seen is the speaker under the coal load firing down.
Are you suggesting that the speaker be mounted to the underside of the coal load, facing the bottom of the tender? Would it work to do that and then cut holes in the bottom of the tender? Or, should the speaker be flush up against the opening, wherever that opening may be cut?
snjroyIn some cases, i have made small openings in front of the tender, for sound and heat evacuation. It doesn't show much if the loco is close to the tender. Simon
Are you happy with the sound quality in those instances?
I prefer the speakers to be in the engine, not the tender ! That's where the sound from a real steam engine comes from.
With todays cell phone speakers (sugar cube speakers), this is a much easier task than it used to be.
Fortunately, the majority of sounds a steam engine makes are higher frequencies than those produced by a diesel engine. A small speaker is more than capable of reproducing steam sounds quite well. As a matter of fact, a good many of todays cell phone speakers rival a standard speaker more than twice its size.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I've done both downward-firing through the tender floor with holes in it and upward firing concealed under the coal. The upward firing will give a bit better high and mid-frequency response, because they tend to be more directional than low frequencies are. If you're just worried about volume, either way will work unless your they kind of guy who runs these things turned up as loud as possible.
Here's a pic of the install in the tender of my K-36.
Then I used some of that dark gray fairly dense foam, like the stuff NCE uses to pack their throttle and stuff in, and trimmed out a nice looking load of "coal" then painted it black. No actual coal involved on this.
You'll note that I used the coal bunker and some plastic to make a custom enclosure. This needs to be sealed tightly, including where the wires to the speaker enter.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
It would appear you and I are interested in finding out information on the same thing, Rich. I am ordering a sound system for a brass Northern Pacific Y-1 consolidation, soon. Right now I have a Digitrax sound system I am working on installing in an MDC Roundhouse Ten Wheeler I converted to an N.P. S-4.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
FWIW:
I have installed speakers in two tenders where I drilled a large number of small holes (#68 or so) through the coal load so the speakers faced out the top. Maybe my eyes are no good, but I have a hard time spotting the holes even when the locomotive is standing still. I think the trick is to drill the holes in the crevices between the 'chunks' of coal so they are hidden in the shadows and masked by the glint of the coal.
I have also done the 'holes in the bottom' thing. I don't like the resulting devastation to the bottom of the tender. Maybe I should have used a smaller drill. IMHO the coal load holes are preferable.
Both are tedious!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter FWIW: I have installed speakers in two tenders where I drilled a large number of small holes (#68 or so) through the coal load so the speakers faced out the top.
I have installed speakers in two tenders where I drilled a large number of small holes (#68 or so) through the coal load so the speakers faced out the top.
How many is a "large number of small holes"? Can you drill too few holes and lose the sound quality?
Rich:
I'm sure too few holes would negatively impact the sound quality. I didn't bother to count how many holes I drilled. Here is one tender (yes, its Hogwarts Express!)
Pardon the dust! Even when photographed from a few inches the holes are hard to see. They are spotted on about a 1/8" grid, maybe closer depending on the pattern of the coal. I'm guessing there are about 80 holes.
I'm happy with the sound. It is an old Soundtrax LC so you can't expect miracles from it, but it doesn't sound tinney or muted. It sounds about the same as another steamer that I have that has 9 x 1/4" holes drilled in the tender floor. Both have 1" round speakers. The LC is perhaps not the best decoder to use for comparisons, but my point is that the holes in the coal load don't show very much.
Holes?
I don't see no stinkin' holes.
Nice work, Dave.
That may be the way to go, if I can get up enough nerve to drill into the coal loads.
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall...
Lennon-McCartney
Ed
Like a detailed brake system on the underside of our rolling stock, that no one sees, I don't see how adding holes to the underside of the tender, detracts from the tender's looks. Adding the speaker pointing up through the coal certainly would be a viable option, unless like I do, you use real coal for the load. Then I would think the process of gluing the coal in position with wet water and diluted white glue would certainly affect the sound from the speaker, especially when gravity drains all that liquid to the speaker!!
Wherever you drill those holes in the tender, you are "damaging" the loco in the sense that you have altered its appearance. So, it better be done in a way that it does not adversely affect resale value if you ever plan to sell your locomotive.
gmpullman Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall... Lennon-McCartney Ed
Well, it IS a Hall class...
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
richhotrain Wherever you drill those holes in the tender, you are "damaging" the loco in the sense that you have altered its appearance. So, it better be done in a way that it does not adversely affect resale value if you ever plan to sell your locomotive. Rich
Round holes in the bottom of the tender weaken the tender’s structure very slightly. If you’re a hacker and can’t get a drill to drill round holes; or a klutz at using tools, possibly it could affect the loco’s value. However, the sound system should significantly add value to the loco, when it’s time to sell.
I don’t see holes in the bottom of the tender as a problem. However, even if they do detract from its’ value, it’s my loco and I will do what I want with them and I will value a sound equipped locomotive as having greater value (to me) than one which doesn't.
I am talking about plastic locos and tenders, and I agree with you that the installation of the sound decoder will add to the resale value. My only point is that any drilling into the tender will deface it somewhat, so one better not be a hacker or klutz.
hon30critter FWIW: I have installed speakers in two tenders where I drilled a large number of small holes (#68 or so) through the coal load so the speakers faced out the top. Maybe my eyes are no good, but I have a hard time spotting the holes even when the locomotive is standing still. I think the trick is to drill the holes in the crevices between the 'chunks' of coal so they are hidden in the shadows and masked by the glint of the coal. ... Dave
...
This. Worked well for me.
So, is it important to have some room in the speaker enclosure; or, should there be a minimum amount of room.
Maybe unrelated to this line of thought and possibly old technology, my stereo speakers which were new in 1971 have a base reflex hole in them, true the hole is on the face of the speaker. However, I should think this would letting "out of phase sound" out of the speaker. A base reflex hole would be contrary to the thinking for speaker enclosures for sound systems on model locomotives!
At any rate, I need to know how much if any room should be provide in the enclosure (Baffle?).
If you loook inside the speaker cabinet, that's not just a hole. There's a complex path between the rear of the speaker and that hole.
There are two schools of thought with speakers, one that says everything should be sealed up tight, and another that says the bass port type are better. My subwoofer with my TV has a port, the center speakers are sealed. Without doing a lot of math, my gut says the port is superior for low frequency reproduction because otherwise you have a lot of air compression on the back side of the spekaer cone, which makes it harder to move to full extension - and equally a vacuum when it travels in the opposite direction. Adding the complex path to a port allows air movement without directly allowing 180 degree out of phase sounds to come out and cancel the speaker's sounds.
I suspect that given the longer relative wavelengths for low frequency sounds and the very small internal measurements of the typical HO scale speaker system porting the enclosure will offer very minor if any gain. Porting likely works better when things are bigger.
Rich,
Before I attempted my first steam locomotive sound installation, I read a lot of forums, boards, etc., and watched videos on where to mount the speaker. I tried to put a 28mm high bass speaker in the smokebox of an IHC 4-8-2 so the sound would come from where it would be generated. After quite a few tries, I couldn't get it to go, so I went with putting it in the tender along with the TSU-1000. For an enclosure, I used a cardboard tube from a Press and Seal roll. It's much smaller than the ones for paper towels or TP and fits a 28mm speaker without fairings or other modifications. I cut the tube to a length that would fit in the tender and just used masking tape to attach the speaker to the end closest to the rear of the tender. The speaker points into the tube. The open end of the tube is pointed toward the front of the tender. The sound exits only through the small opening where the tender pickup wires had a two wire quick connector to the motor in the boiler. The volume is great and the tone deep. Possibly an option to consider. And...no coal loads or tender floors were harmed in the process of this installation.
This is my first attempt a posting pictures, so let's hope it works.
Emman