Although my layout is DCC equipped, I have never paid much attention to the DCC Column in Model Railroader. Has anyone noted any information contained in this column on Keep Alive Devices for DCC locos?
Does anyone have any experience with these devices and do you have an opinion on their worth?
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Do you have sound? Do you have hiccups in the sound going over certain sections of track or turnout frogs? If so, keep-alive may be for you. It absolutely works, though some will say it's a band-aid for poor trackwork.
The other mag - the free internet one, the editorial in this month's issue actually is on keep-alive vs powering frogs.
Before I participate in the next club show, I intend to add keep-alive to the locos I run their - our older modules use fitter track pieces between sections so there are always dead spots which menas all trains must have at least 2 diesels just so one always stays powered to get past the dead spots, or a steam loco with all wheel pickup on the engine and tender to it can span the dead spots.
There are 2 kinds of keep-alive, the simple 2 wire lots of capacitors type, which you almost always have to disconnect to program the loco on a low current program track, and the more sophisticated (and expensive) 3-wire type which allow the decoder to turn off the keep alive when programming - Loksound decoders do this, they can use either a 2 wire or 3 wire keep-alive, with a 3-wire version it cuts power to the capacitors to allow program track readback.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I was at the Springfield show a couple of years back, and TCS was demonstrating their keep-alive devices. The guy in the booth had an engine running around a loop. He picked it up and put it down on the plywood base, and it ran for about 5 seconds without track. I was impressed.
As much as I try to have perfect trackwork and clean wheels, there are still occasional hiccups that show up with smaller engines. One of these days, I'm putting a TCS keep-alive decoder in Old Number 6.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
rrinker Do you have sound? Do you have hiccups in the sound going over certain sections of track or turnout frogs? If so, keep-alive may be for you. It absolutely works, though some will say it's a band-aid for poor trackwork. The other mag - the free internet one, the editorial in this month's issue actually is on keep-alive vs powering frogs. Before I participate in the next club show, I intend to add keep-alive to the locos I run their - our older modules use fitter track pieces between sections so there are always dead spots which menas all trains must have at least 2 diesels just so one always stays powered to get past the dead spots, or a steam loco with all wheel pickup on the engine and tender to it can span the dead spots. There are 2 kinds of keep-alive, the simple 2 wire lots of capacitors type, which you almost always have to disconnect to program the loco on a low current program track, and the more sophisticated (and expensive) 3-wire type which allow the decoder to turn off the keep alive when programming - Loksound decoders do this, they can use either a 2 wire or 3 wire keep-alive, with a 3-wire version it cuts power to the capacitors to allow program track readback. --Randy
My Atlas Custom Line turn out frogs and point rails give me problems and have been that way almost from the beginnings! So that triggered my interest in these devices.
I have used the old school method. An electrolytic cap, diode and resistor.
Today the Stay Alive is a series of super caps with resistor and diode. Each DCC decoder company sells them with instructions. Go to the website for each company.
Each has a different name for their stay alive.
Below is a link to a fellow who started using the stay alive a few years ago. He gives a very clear description. A picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I only run my layout during the winter months, so a good track cleaning in the fall is a must. I go after it with a bright boy and then run a train that has four track cleaning cars in it for a couple hours. Sp, my track is pretty clean when I operate. It is some dead frogs, frogs that should be powered but the contacts on teh relay are bad and pint rails that for whatever reason loose continuity at the pivot rivets.
I have installed TCS KA1'sand 2's and Tsunami circuit keepers in Athearn, Atlas, Intermountain and Kato engines with Tsunami's, Atlas factory installed decoders and loksound decoders with great results. As mentioned before they are not a cure all for bad track work or really, really dirty track but for balky frogs and switch points they work miracles. Most installations are simple and Marcus Amman is the guru with info on his website. Google keep alive installs and you will get a number of you tube videos and more info than you probably want about the different kinds. I have been putting them in all my engines for awhile and the biggest challenge is finding room in the shell on smaller Geeps.
Marty C
One other thing I failed to mention. Unlike some of the commenters I have never had a problem programming decoders with keep alives either on the programming track with decoder pro or on the main. I am using an NCE system with a Power Cab on the programming track and an Sb5 and ProCab on the layout.
Marty C One other thing I failed to mention. Unlike some of the commenters I have never had a problem programming decoders with keep alives either on the programming track with decoder pro or on the main. I am using an NCE system with a Power Cab on the programming track and an Sb5 and ProCab on the layout. Marty C
Thanks Marty, this is what I was looking for!
Same here. My Power Cab always does the job.
Glad your NCE DCC equipment works well for you.
My Digitrax has always worked well for me; too, until I bought a loco with a Tsunami sound decoder that I guess needs the extra power in the form of Soundtraxx's PTB-100 Program Track Booster. I can't fault Digitrax for not considering that some sound decoders in the future would need extra programing track power.
An interview with Matt Herman from ESU in the latest issue of that free online magazine explains a lot - mainly that Loksound decoders switch off the audio amplifier when on the program track so they don't need any power boosters to program.
I asked George Bogatiuk of Soundtraxx if Soundtraxx's "Current Keeper" required extra power while programing their Tsunami Sound Decoders and he said: "No. Processor needs same amount. Keeper has slow-charge circuitry to help minimize its impact on power supplies..." However, to program a Tsunami decoder on the Program Track, I do need Soundtraxx's PTB-100, Program Track Booster!
The CurrentKeeper, like the TCS KeepAlive, probably has the same diode/resistor arrangement shown on Marcus' site which limits the current going in to the caps but allows free flow out when the decoder needs to draw power. Now the stock capacitor that is included with the Tsunami, on the other hand... and that one only serves to power the sound system, not provide motor power.
rrinker The CurrentKeeper, like the TCS KeepAlive, probably has the same diode/resistor arrangement shown on Marcus' site which limits the current going in to the caps but allows free flow out when the decoder needs to draw power. Now the stock capacitor that is included with the Tsunami, on the other hand... and that one only serves to power the sound system, not provide motor power. --Randy
Randy, You should probably take a look at the You-Tube video for the 810149 Current Keeper on the website for this product at: http://www.soundtraxx.com/access/wiring.php
It certainly looks like the loco in the video keeps on chugging along.
You misread what I said. The CurrentKeeper runs the whole thing - motor and sounds. The small capacitor that comes with the Tsunami only runs the sound. The connection for the CurrentKeeper is made to the decoder like the DIY version shown on Marcus' site. The stock capacitor is only connected to the sound processor.
Randy, Reading your post over for the third time, it still seems to me that you are stating the Current Keeper will only continue the sound, if power is lost. Obviously that isn't what you meant; so, thanks for clarifying.
Talking about Keep-Alives. I have a Lenz Silver-Mini-W decoder that I need to add a Keep-Alive to. Anyone know where I might find some information on doing that? L9ooking for the grond on the decoder. Hope I did not hijack the thread.
Multiple ideas in one paragraph
1. The CurrentKeeper likely implements a resistor and diode inrush limiters, like the TCS KeepAlive and like shown on Marcus' site
2. The stock capacitor on Tsunami does not have inrush protection (reason for the ...)
3. And that one - meaning the stock capacitor - is only for the sound and does nothing for the motor.