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How to wire HO scale street lights

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Sunday, November 23, 2014 10:15 AM

 

kamtrain
(Yes I could reduce the DC output using the dial but there is a 5 year old around so guaranteed to fail).

Soo Line fan
. Per the concern of accidentally moving the throttle, a simple piece of 3M D/S tape and a plastic block will make a nice throttle stop

Also, you could remove the throttle dial from the pack.

Jim

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Posted by kamtrain on Saturday, November 22, 2014 11:41 PM

Just joined this forum after searching for lighting a walters street light. I purchased one then noticed it was 12V. We currently have a 19V AC bus and a 16V DC bus wired using a MRC DC power pack. (Yes I could reduce the DC output using the dial but there is a 5 year old around so guaranteed to fail). There are now 3 bus lines including the DCC bus. Looking through this forum I did not see the resitor required to drop the voltage to 12V from the 16V DC bus. I do not want to wire another bus for 12V DC as the lights are wired through a double throw switch one for AC and one for DC. Missing on the Walters box is the amperage rating for the lamps. Maybe the best thing is to chuck the lamp in the garbage but Walter's does make some nice looking lamps so that would be a shame. So maybe I could ask if someone has done this to provide the wattage and resitance of the resitor used. Also maybe a NMRA standard could be thought about given the great job with DCC.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:34 PM

Soo Line fan

The great part is of all the possible solutions, every single one will work. Add the lights to the DCC buss, Wal warts, PC supplies, throttles and accessory terminals, reducing the current with resistors.

And they all have advantages and disadvantages.

 

 

Good point, Jim.

And let's not forget that a lot of forum members and visitors follow these threads, so the replies often prove helpful to others in addition to the OP of a thread.  That's why it is helpful and informative to point out alternative solutions.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:28 PM

Mark R.

  

CSX Robert

 

Mark R.

 

Phoebe Vet

.... Resisters are used to drop voltage, not diodes.  ....

 

Resistors act to reduce current flow, and, at the same time, act to lower voltage levels within circuits.

Diodes are voltage dropping components as there is a loss of 0.7 volts across the terminals of a diode. A string of ten diodes in series with the power lead to a component will drop the voltage by 7 volts.

Mark.

  

True, and often times diodes are a BETTER way to drop the voltage than resistors.  For one, the voltage drop across a diode is fairly constant with variations in the amount current flowing through it, whereas the voltage drop across a resistor is directly porportional to the current flowing through it.

  

Exactly why diodes are used in 1.5 volt constant lighting circuits, and not resistors ....

Mark.

 

Yep, I have used diodes on many occasions to reduce voltage.  The 4000 series (1N4001 - 1N4007) works very well for this purpose.
 
Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 11:18 PM

In your defense, woodman, your original question was, could you use your Bachmann power pack to power your Atlas street lights.  And the first reply said, yes, you could.

And now that you have that second Bachmann power pack, you can use that power pack to power your Walthers street lights.  No need to even purchase a wall wart.

Incidentally, you can buy a wall wart at Walmart !   Smile, Wink & Grin

Rich

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:51 PM

The great part is of all the possible solutions, every single one will work. Add the lights to the DCC buss, Wal warts, PC supplies, throttles and accessory terminals, reducing the current with resistors.

And they all have advantages and disadvantages.

 

Jim

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Posted by woodman on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:26 PM

Once again I want to thank everyone who took the time to help me on this issue. I don't want to cause any trouble with my following comment, but in my original post I mentioned my limited electrical knowledge, but some of the replies were difficult to under stand, the item I had no clue as to what anyone was talking about was the term, " WALL WART " I actually thought people were referring to WALMART for some reason, it wasn't until the last few posts did someone actually explained what a WALL WART was, until then I had no clue. A Wall Wart definately seems  to be the solution to my orginal post. I am at fault for not asking what a Wall Wart was, but I was so confused at that point I didn't want to cause any more confusion. Once again Thanks for all the help.

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:23 PM

 

richhotrain
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Rich

 What we found out at work is, giving answers without the proper questions, was a disaster. We are taught to coach, aka teach in addition to providing an answer. So this old saying still is very true, even in today’s high tech world.

Per the wall wart solution, there are some negatives with using one. No circuit protection is one. The first time it shorts, kiss it good bye. So now we must or SHOULD add a fuse slightly below the rated current output.

Also, no on/off switch is provided, so when night becomes day, you pull the plug or add another switch. Two supplies mean 2 separate lighting buses, 2 circuit breakers and 2 on/off switches.

 The throttle solution has build in circuit protection and a on/off switch, if these things are important to you. Per the concern of accidentally moving the throttle, a simple piece of 3M D/S tape and a plastic block will make a nice throttle stop.

 Simplicity can be a relative term.

 

Jim

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:26 PM

I cannot recall the last time that a simple question such as the one that I asked the OP caused so much hoopla on a thread.

Is you layout DC or DCC?

I only asked the question because it was not clear if he was running his layout in DC or DCC.

True, he didn't ask if he could power the lights on the track bus, but he did write, "Thank you for any help that you can give me in this matter as it will be greatly appreciated".  With so few lights to draw power, using the DCC track bus is a viable option.  So, why not mention this option?  He acknowledged that he has limited electrical expertise so he probably wasn't even aware of it.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.  Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Rich

 

 

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:48 PM

CSX Robert

 

 
Mark R.

 

 
Phoebe Vet

.... Resisters are used to drop voltage, not diodes.  ....

 

 

 

Resistors act to reduce current flow, and, at the same time, act to lower voltage levels within circuits.

Diodes are voltage dropping components as there is a loss of 0.7 volts across the terminals of a diode. A string of ten diodes in series with the power lead to a component will drop the voltage by 7 volts.

Mark.

 

 

 

 

True, and often times diodes are a BETTER way to drop the voltage than resistors.  For one, the voltage drop across a diode is fairly constant with variations in the amount current flowing through it, whereas the voltage drop across a resistor is directly porportional to the current flowing through it.

 

Exactly why diodes are used in 1.5 volt constant lighting circuits, and not resistors ....

Mark.

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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:43 PM

Mark R.

 

 
Phoebe Vet

.... Resisters are used to drop voltage, not diodes.  ....

 

 

 

Resistors act to reduce current flow, and, at the same time, act to lower voltage levels within circuits.

Diodes are voltage dropping components as there is a loss of 0.7 volts across the terminals of a diode. A string of ten diodes in series with the power lead to a component will drop the voltage by 7 volts.

Mark.

 

 

True, and often times diodes are a BETTER way to drop the voltage than resistors.  For one, the voltage drop across a diode is fairly constant with variations in the amount current flowing through it, whereas the voltage drop across a resistor is directly porportional to the current flowing through it.

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:03 PM

Now, if you want to talk cheap GOOD power supplies .... ebay has tons of laptop power supplies for under $10 and many have free shipping. 12 volts and between 5 and 10 amps of clean filtered power. A lot of "wall warts" aren't regulated supplies and you may not be getting the stated voltage if the load is insufficient.

Mark.

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:01 PM

Phoebe Vet

.... Resisters are used to drop voltage, not diodes.  ....

 

Resistors act to reduce current flow, and, at the same time, act to lower voltage levels within circuits.

Diodes are voltage dropping components as there is a loss of 0.7 volts across the terminals of a diode. A string of ten diodes in series with the power lead to a component will drop the voltage by 7 volts.

Mark.

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 3:26 PM

Yes, I criticized people who try to sound smart by insisting on complex solutions to simple problems.  Twelve volt wall  wart, about 10 or 15 dollars is the perfect supply to the 12 volt bus he asked about.  Resisters are used to drop voltage, not diodes.  Using a DC power supply turned down to the needed voltage is a jerry rig solution at best.  He never indicated a desire to run them off track power.

I am now leaving this thread.

Dave

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 3:24 PM

Strange how nobody suggested a car battery and a dashboard light dimmer switch yet !  Whistling

It worked 60 years ago !  Smile, Wink & Grin

 

Mark.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 2:37 PM

LOL

You guys crack me up falling all over yourselves to line up and say Me Too.

At least Randy did suggest two separate power supplies, unlike PV who offered nothing but criticism.

But, let's be honest, woodman could have used just the one Bachmann power supply that he already had but, understandably, he was hesitant to do so because he is unfamilar with some of the required wiring techniques.  Nothing wrong with that.  So, he went out bought a second identical Bachmann power pack.  My, my, the crime of the century! As far as the 12 volt wall wart, let's all calm down.  I merely suggested it in response to his inquiry.  He hasn't bought it yet and maybe never will.

Rich

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Posted by NeO6874 on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 8:40 AM

Phoebe Vet

 

 
rrinker

 So we've come full circle, back to what I suggested a while ago - just get a proper voltage wall wart and hook the lights up, no worries on accidently bumping the speed control on the power pack up past 12V and blowing the lights. The absolute simplest solution as there is nothing to do but hook up the wires, no adjusting, no meters, etc. Not the cheapest solution, but the simplest electrically speaking.

               --Randy

 

 

 

Add my vote to that one.  That's how mine are wired.

Amen!

 
+1 from me. 

-Dan

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 8:09 AM

rrinker

 So we've come full circle, back to what I suggested a while ago - just get a proper voltage wall wart and hook the lights up, no worries on accidently bumping the speed control on the power pack up past 12V and blowing the lights. The absolute simplest solution as there is nothing to do but hook up the wires, no adjusting, no meters, etc. Not the cheapest solution, but the simplest electrically speaking.

               --Randy

 

Add my vote to that one.  That's how mine are wired.

Amen!

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:59 AM

 So we've come full circle, back to what I suggested a while ago - just get a proper voltage wall wart and hook the lights up, no worries on accidently bumping the speed control on the power pack up past 12V and blowing the lights. The absolute simplest solution as there is nothing to do but hook up the wires, no adjusting, no meters, etc. Not the cheapest solution, but the simplest electrically speaking.

               --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:49 AM

woodman

Rich, I just purchased another Bachmann power ( same Model ) pack off of ebay, I am thinking of using the two Bachmann power packs for both the Atlas and Walthers lights. I'll just have to reduce the power from the power pack for the Walthers lights. Do they make a power source these days that the lights can be hooked to and you just plug it in and not have to worry about  too much power burning out the lights. Thanks for all your help and time in this matter.

 

woodman, that was a smart purchase.  I essentially have done the same thing by placing 5 identical power packs around my layout to control a large number of Tortoises and control panel LEDs.

When you wire the Walthers lights into the second Bachmann power pack, just connect them to the two DC teminals, and turn down that rotary speed dial to reduce the voltage.  You can use a voltmeter to find the point where the output is 12 volts.

If you wish to have a power source of exactly 12 volts (VDC), you can buy a regulated DC power supply like the one at Miniatronics.

http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=WT12&Category_Code=8&Product_Count=2

A 12 VDC regulated power supply like this simply plugs into the wall and is often referred to as a wall wart.

The Bachmann power packs and the Miniatronics regulated power supply have sufficient reserved power to permit you to add additional street lights in the future, if you so choose.

Rich

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Posted by NeO6874 on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:06 AM

woodman
Do they make a power source these days that the lights can be hooked to and you just plug it in and not have to worry about  too much power burning out the lights. Thanks for all your help and time in this matter. 

Not entirely, no.

 

HOWEVER, if you're not afraid of learning a little (and, being a MRR-er, I'd assume you fall into this category), then it's a real quick pickup.

The important things you have to know are:

  1. How much voltage is "OK" (LEDS, Motors, etc.)
  2. How much amperage do I need
  3. I have X VDC (or VAC*), what's the best way to drop it to Y VDC (or VAC*)
  4. Is that wall wart regulated or not?

*Though, unless you're running Lionel or American Flyer stuff, we can stay away from AC.

 

Answers:

  1. Generally, it's written on the package / instruction manual (e.g. 12-19 VDC XXX mA).  In the event of Radio Shack parts bin type stuff (or online retailers like Mouser / DigiKey / EBay), there might be no "real" packaging beyond a bar code / UPC number.  In that case, look it up before buying -- IIRC RS parts bin stuff has it labelled on the drawers, bulk  items will probably have a reference to a catalog page.
  2. To find out your draw, just add everything together.  5 LEDs that draw 20 mA each mean you need a pack that can supply 100 mA minimum (although a pack rated for more, such as 250mA is completely OK). As with house circuit wiring, you should keep your draw around 75-80% max so you're not burning anything out.
  3. I'm terrible with remembering this, so I keep one of those pocket wiring / circuit guide books around.  I think mine was like $10 or something at Harbor Freight or Home Depot.  Or, you can use google.  In very general terms, starting with a 1k Ohm resistor in series with a LED is safe (on 12-14VDC), and then you can go down from there if the led is "too dim".
  4. Should say right on the thing (somewhere), though you can test it real quick with a multimeter.  Personally I'll use an old (250 or 300 W) computer power supply.  They generally rival DCC systems for available amperage -- if you don't have any lying around, brand-new el-cheapo (i.e. $25 + tax/shipping) ones have like 10-15+A on (each of) the +12VDC rail(s).

-Dan

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Posted by woodman on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 2:36 AM

Rich, I just purchased another Bachmann power ( same Model ) pack off of ebay, I am thinking of using the two Bachmann power packs for both the Atlas and Walthers lights. I'll just have to reduce the power from the power pack for the Walthers lights. Do they make a power source these days that the lights can be hooked to and you just plug it in and not have to worry about  too much power burning out the lights. Thanks for all your help and time in this matter.

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Posted by cmrproducts on Monday, September 15, 2014 12:58 PM

richhotrain

Bob, you and Phoebe Vet and others are, of course, entitled to your own opinions.  And, I am not sure who you are directing your comments to.

But I have to say that I resent any insinuations that I or anyone else on this thread was trying to do anything but help the OP.

As mobilman44 pointed out, I was the first to reply to the OP, and I believe that I gave a straightforward answer to him.

But, I also asked whether he was operating in DC or DCC, since that would open other other options for wiring the street lamps if he was so inclined.  Unfortunately, someone else took exception to my inquiry and the discussion got somewhat diverted, at least temporarily.  

Once we got back on point, we got some needed information from the OP about his power supplies, and we were able to give him more complete advice.

And, let me add, that in my opinion the OP's question was not entirely simple and, therefore, there was not a simple answer.

Rich

Rich

It was the shear volume of answers that overwhelms the NUBE and everyone is different or too much a like.

Is he supposed to try everyone to see which one he likes (which would make a simple job overwhelming - as I stated).

Unfortunately this is the way a forum works - EVERYONE is entitled to an OPINION as can bee seen by this thread!

What should happen is the Posters ACTUALLY READ ALL of the replies before writing their own reply as they may be reapeating the answer only in a different way.  IF the OP doesn't understand - then he should ask for a clairfication of the answer.

If the answwes are not right or clear - then respond - otherwise jumping in and repeating the same answer is wasting bandwith.

SO Rich - I was not insunating anything just stating why do we need to repeat the same answer over and over.

Just so some can increase their Post Counts - I guess - me included! ;-)

BOB H - Clarion, PA

 

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Monday, September 15, 2014 9:19 AM

I happen to actually get paid for solving very difficult electrical issues for dealerships across the world. If any of you believe I confused this concern, please let me know so I do not repeat the mistake.

Jim

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 15, 2014 8:42 AM

Bob, you and Phoebe Vet and others are, of course, entitled to your own opinions.  And, I am not sure who you are directing your comments to.

But I have to say that I resent any insinuations that I or anyone else on this thread was trying to do anything but help the OP.

As mobilman44 pointed out, I was the first to reply to the OP, and I believe that I gave a straightforward answer to him.

But, I also asked whether he was operating in DC or DCC, since that would open other other options for wiring the street lamps if he was so inclined.  Unfortunately, someone else took exception to my inquiry and the discussion got somewhat diverted, at least temporarily.  

Once we got back on point, we got some needed information from the OP about his power supplies, and we were able to give him more complete advice.

And, let me add, that in my opinion the OP's question was not entirely simple and, therefore, there was not a simple answer.

Rich

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Posted by cmrproducts on Monday, September 15, 2014 8:05 AM

Phoebe Vet

 

 
woodman

 I did not realize how complicated just hooking up some street lights to my layout was going to be, I am now thinking of returning all the lights and just forgetting the idea of having lights. I appreciate all the replies to my posts, but with each reply it has become more and more confusing for me. I just think I am way over my head in trying to accomplish this task. Once again thank you all for your advice, you kept me from making an expensive mistake.

 

 

Congratulations, guys.  You have managed to scare off an inexperienced modeler who just wanted advise on a simple task.

This is fairly typical of this forum - the NUBE wants simple answer to his question and he gets a dozen relies (usually having little to nothing to do with his question) and leaves in discust!

But that seems typical as everyone tries to out do the other in answering a simple question!

I usually reply directly to the person asking the question and they are so thankful that someone comes up with a simple and inexpensive solution to a simple question!

Why do we have to reinvent the wheel time and time again.

I have made suggestions on the least expensive and quickest way of doing things YET other responders - try to find the most expensive and hardest way of doing things - then turn right around and complain Model Railroading is too expensive!

When building a 2500 sq ft Layout on retirement money - one has to find the least costly method of doing thins that works and lasts forever.

I learned this being a member of a Club for over 25 years - a club never has any money and NOT doing things right - costs the Club twice as much as they have to now do it over again!

SO we learned that doing it right the first time and making things bulletproof means no redos and the Club can move onto other more fun things to do!

This wiring thing is a fine example - we learned the hard way - the IDCs fail badly - we now solder things and NEVER have problems.

But as we all know - everyone knowes better!  We believed that PROs and used the IDCs - We sure found out about what the PROs really know what works!

BOB H - CLarion, PA

 

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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, September 15, 2014 7:47 AM

Hi,

Seems to me, in his first post, Richhotrain took care of the OP's problem.   Much that followed just complicated a rather simple project.

Seems like we do that a lot here................. 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 15, 2014 6:38 AM

Dave, read the most recent replies.

woodman is set to go because he, and we, persisted.

BTW, did you have any advice to offer?

Rich

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, September 15, 2014 6:34 AM

woodman

 I did not realize how complicated just hooking up some street lights to my layout was going to be, I am now thinking of returning all the lights and just forgetting the idea of having lights. I appreciate all the replies to my posts, but with each reply it has become more and more confusing for me. I just think I am way over my head in trying to accomplish this task. Once again thank you all for your advice, you kept me from making an expensive mistake.

Congratulations, guys.  You have managed to scare off an inexperienced modeler who just wanted advise on a simple task.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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