Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

DC modellers any left

9345 views
46 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Saturday, April 6, 2013 8:58 AM

 The best thing for those old Blue Box locos was to replace the sintered iron wheels with NWSL nickel-silver ones. Slightly less traction but WAY more reliable electricl pickup. Plus it wasn;t uncommon for some of those Athearn wheels to literally have chunks missing out of them.

               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 699 posts
Posted by UP 4-12-2 on Friday, April 5, 2013 10:29 PM

For me, dummy units are just former powered units with which I experienced "problems".

When the problems become enough of a headache, the offending unit is converted into an unpowered dummy unit.

I had some issues a few years back with Athearn units whose wheelsets (these were not the former bluebox units) caused excessive power arcing and extreme amounts of track dirt.

Made the worst one into a dummy unit--and had no more problems with it!

Since then it does appear that Athearn has improved either their wheelsets or the electronics in the engines, or both.

John

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, April 5, 2013 7:40 PM

keithh9824
i did solve my third cab dilema wired the extra selector thanks for the advice.

I am glad you got the 3rd cab working, despite our rabbit trail on DC vs. DCC.    

I too have dummy locos.    I went through about 10 years ago and de-powered a bunch of mine.   I did some tests that showed 2 Stewart's could easily pull 55 cars.   Since I never run trains that long, more like 20-30 max I thought powered sets of ABBA were just silly.

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 699 posts
Posted by UP 4-12-2 on Friday, April 5, 2013 11:43 AM

I am basically DC only and fully intend to stay that way.  I do have the capability, with the MRC Sound Controller 2.0 power supply, of running a DCC equipped unit, but I often have to reset it to factory default DCC settings in order for it to run on my layout.  I can even run DCC-only equipped units with this controller.

I do indeed resent the pro-DCC bias both within Kalmbach's magazine publications and on internet forums.  I'm sick of articles (and multiple online threads) that assume a DC model is, by its very nature, inferior.  Newsflash MR - it doesn't make me want to buy the magazine.

The only DCC equipped engines I have on hand are one bicentennial Athearn Cotton Belt SD45T-2 and one Kodachrome SD45T-2.  Both previous owners unfortunately installed DCC decoders in these units.  They perform pretty much equally well in plain DC mode as with DCC.  I have a plain DC Kodachrome SD45T-2 that actually runs better than either of the DCC units does, whether I run them in plain DC or in DCC mode. 

I only have a modestly sized HO railroad, and since I usually own multiple units of anything I like, I have no need for DCC at all, because I can have "multiple unit consisting" in plain DC.

My 2c.

John

 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Peoria
  • 89 posts
Posted by keithh9824 on Friday, April 5, 2013 2:13 AM

Glad to see there are still some DC people left i did solve my third cab dilema wired the extra selector thanks for the advice. I have a small layout and many deisels to convert for me its cost id rather spend my mony on Kadee Couplers and other things. As for operations going good. I just forget to throw the switches LOL. Thanks every one for all the info i still have dummie deisels too LOL call me old fashioned i convert these to power when i find parts mostly athearn BB. the Atlas engines are all powered.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:23 PM

richhotrain

Doughless, you make a good point.

The title of the thread and the opening sentence or two of the OP's post do not transition well into the rest of his post which is about setting up that third cab. 

Rich

Yeah, you made that basic point about him needing help a while back.  He may be researching the 'net, and finding a bunch of info on DCC, and getting discouraged.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:03 PM

Doughless, you make a good point.

The title of the thread and the opening sentence or two of the OP's post do not transition well into the rest of his post which is about setting up that third cab. 

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 12:54 PM

I love these threads.  People making absolute statements, but missing the point....taking a big swing and whiffing.

To many, technology is simply a means to an end.  To many, it is the end...or at least a big part of the hobby. 

Personally, I choose to focus on other aspects of the hobby, not the electronics technology part.  I just want the electronics to work reliably each time, so I can get on with MRRing.  Nothing more...nothing less. 

Its technology, its not ideology.

As said many times before by many people, the ease and reliability of each system is mainly dependent upon how complicated you make your layout, not really by the technology itself.

If the OP truly wants advice on how to set up a third cab, perhaps another more specifc based thread would be more useful.  There are plenty of folks who can help, and plenty who are using DC.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: Colorado
  • 4,075 posts
Posted by fwright on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 12:21 PM

JoeinPA

The DC vs DCC debate reminds me of the "why should I use one of those computer things when my typewriter works just fine". If someone is really satisfied with older technology they should stick with it but let others explore what is new.

Joe

Joe, I believe you have it the wrong way around.  I don't thnk any DC user is trying to say not to go DCC if that's what you want.  There are certainly good reasons for many to switch to DCC (or start from scratch with DCC).  However, there are more than a few DCC users that have trouble accepting that there are equally valid reasons for staying with DC.

FWIW, we are still controlling our trains by varying the voltage (DCC uses pulse width modulation to vary the voltage, DC uses a variety of methods) to a permanent magnet motor regardless of which control system we use.  So your analogy to computers vs typewriters is not a particularly good analogy.  Maybe a better analogy might be ink jet vs laser printers.  Both print on paper using a series of tiny dots.  Just the method of generating the dots varies.

Fred W

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 12:09 PM

JoeinPA

The DC vs DCC debate reminds me of the "why should I use one of those computer things when my typewriter works just fine". If someone is really satisfied with older technology they should stick with it but let others explore what is new.

Joe

Joe, I completely agree.

But some of us have already explored what is new and decided it is not worth the time, trouble and expense for our particular needs.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
  • 1,796 posts
Posted by JoeinPA on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:48 AM

The DC vs DCC debate reminds me of the "why should I use one of those computer things when my typewriter works just fine". If someone is really satisfied with older technology they should stick with it but let others explore what is new.

Joe

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 10:46 AM

davidmbedard
DCC>DC. 2 wires is all you ever need.

David B

2 wires is all  I use on my DC ISLs up to 10' and 1 of my 4x8 loop layouts..I don't get block crazy like some.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 9:59 AM

davidmbedard
DCC>DC. 2 wires is all you ever need.

David B

David,

You know what Ilike most about DCC?

The money I get selling the decoders I take out of Bachmann and BLI locos on Ebay!

So yes, by all means, everyone else should convert to DCC and bid up my auctions even higher.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 7:53 AM

richhotrain

zstripe

richhotrain

keithh9824

I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC ?

Although the OP has yet to be heard from again, don't you get the sense that he was asking the question tongue in cheek?

Rich

 

Oh, Oh,,,,,

Flame war,, Flame war,,

Cheers,

Frank

Frank,

Me thinks you are spraying an accelerant.

I am being quite serious and attempting to be quite non-controversial.

No flame war sought, no flame war intended.

I simply think that the OP was posing this question tongue in cheek.

To suggest that there are only two people on these forums who still use DC is not to be taken seriously.

Rich

Rich,

I'm not so sure about that. The OP has talked rather seriously about is DC controls in the recent past, and has asked a number of DC related questions. While he may have been being a little dramatic with the modifier "two", he may "feel" that way among all the "DCC talk" on here.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 7:22 AM

zstripe
This thread,, I believe in my opinion only,, is a DC,verses,DCC, AGAIN..

Frank,Perhaps but,if it is as you think, its one of the most civilized and lopsided  DCC vs.DC topics I ever read on any forum.Laugh

Whew! I seen some doozies over the years..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: North Dakota
  • 9,592 posts
Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 6:59 AM

richhotrain

Me thinks you are spraying an accelerant.

My cat sprays, but I do not think he is using an accelerate.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 6:53 AM

Rich,

You are correct,,,,, My intention, was to focus on You, get a rise, so to speak,,LOL,,

This thread,, I believe in my opinion only,, is a DC,verses,DCC, AGAIN..

Cheers,,,, DIE HARD DC USER..

Frank

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 6:41 AM

zstripe

richhotrain

keithh9824

I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC ?

Although the OP has yet to be heard from again, don't you get the sense that he was asking the question tongue in cheek?

Rich

 

Oh, Oh,,,,,

Flame war,, Flame war,,

Cheers,

Frank

Frank,

Me thinks you are spraying an accelerant.

I am being quite serious and attempting to be quite non-controversial.

No flame war sought, no flame war intended.

I simply think that the OP was posing this question tongue in cheek.

To suggest that there are only two people on these forums who still use DC is not to be taken seriously.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 6:32 AM

richhotrain

keithh9824

I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC ?

Although the OP has yet to be heard from again, don't you get the sense that he was asking the question tongue in cheek?

Rich

 

Oh, Oh,,,,,

Flame war,, Flame war,,

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 6:28 AM

keithh9824

I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC ?

Although the OP has yet to be heard from again, don't you get the sense that he was asking the question tongue in cheek?

Rich

 

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 6:21 AM

davidmbedard
Just make the plunge into DCC....2 wires is all you need!

David B

David,That is very true but,as you know DCC "experts" recommand wiring your layout in  sections since it will be easier to trouble shoot if there is a short..

Sounds like a new buzzword for the so called "old fashion" DC blocks..Laugh

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 1:51 AM

davidmbedard
Just make the plunge into DCC....2 wires is all you need!

David B

Until you get to to signals and CTC, then you cut the track up into sections just like DC, and run a whole bunch more wires, imagine that.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,312 posts
Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, April 1, 2013 5:33 PM

  Gosh darn Sheldon calm down a bit. I didn't say anything derogatory about DC control. We old timers grew up on it and it worked! I know a whole bunch of guys that have the "If it aint broke, don't fix it" attitude. Nothing wrong with it at all. Since I run mostly steam I like the sound so I jumped on the DCC band wagon as soon as I heard the first generation of Soundtraxx DCC only decoders at the time . DCC easier than DC? I say sometimes. It has really turned out to be a hobby within a hobby. If I didn't like the sound I would still be DC too.

  Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, April 1, 2013 3:44 PM

locoi1sa

I see guys still holding onto DC with no desire to change. I also see guys still running deep pizza cutter flanges on their locos and rolling stock. There is a gentleman in our club that has the old hook and loop couplers that predates the horn hooks. No other hobby that I know of can be this diverse.

       Pete

Well I got rid of all the pizza wheels and converted to RP25 in 1969, and had real Kadee couplers on everything about the same time.

And I have looked long and hard at DCC, direct radio, and a few of the other command control systems that came before DCC.

But I have yet to see where my personal modeling goals would be served any better by any of those systems.

Those goals include detection, signaling, CTC operation, collision avoidance similar to ATC, both display and "session" operations, one button turnout routing, and both central and walk around control.

I use wireless radio DC throttles, but have a fleet of nearly 140 locos - a sizable investment in decoders alone that would not improve my operations one bit.

In fact it would simply make a lot more work and expense since all the locos I choose to run in multiple unit lash-ups run fine together now. Why would I want to spend time speed matching, etc - why fix what is not broke?

My goals do not include on board sound, ditch lights (I model the 50's), childish station announcements, helper locos, or anything else for which DCC might be seen as a plus.

I have a system of push button control that directly connects the correct cab to the desired track section as you walk around with your train - OR - the dispatcher can do it for you during CTC operation.

Much trackage is power routed based on turnout position with "X - sections" so the number of sections requiring "assignment" is about half the number of "typical" cab control schemes.

It is impossible to over run your cab and loose control - your train will simply stop.

With my signal and turnout controls, the whole thing cost less to build than what good decoders would cost for my 140 locos.

I operate DCC a fair amount on the layouts of friends - it seems no worse or better than the good DC systems I have used in last 40 years.

I will conceded, that if I liked or wanted on board sound, I would need DCC.

But I don't, so I don't.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: South Carolina
  • 1,719 posts
Posted by Train Modeler on Monday, April 1, 2013 10:09 AM

I used  rotary switches for multiple cabs beyond 2 when I had DC.   Used to be more common on large layouts.

I eventually went to DCC for lots of reasons.

Richard

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, April 1, 2013 9:15 AM

 Haven't seen a Mantua coupler in ages. But I bet if John Allen were still alive, he'd still be using his Baker couplers.

        --Randy

 

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,312 posts
Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, April 1, 2013 7:36 AM

I see guys still holding onto DC with no desire to change. I also see guys still running deep pizza cutter flanges on their locos and rolling stock. There is a gentleman in our club that has the old hook and loop couplers that predates the horn hooks. No other hobby that I know of can be this diverse.

       Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 31, 2013 9:34 PM

Keith, there are lots of us, likely about half or more of modelers are still DC.

In my case, somewhat advanced DC - 8 wireless radio throttles, modified MZL advanced cab control, integrated signaling, detection and CTC. And I do not use common rail because not using it actually adds some "free" features, like collision avoidance by staggering section breaks.

In my case cabs are assigned to the sections (blocks) with pushbuttons that allow full walk around operation with the radio throttles as well as central dispatch control.

I don't use any kind of onboard sound as it is of poor quality to my ears, so DC works just fine for my needs.

Sheldon

 

    

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,667 posts
Posted by rrebell on Sunday, March 31, 2013 3:32 PM

I'm DC, two separate power packs (one with hand-held) for the two yards and a very long mainline with another pack but walkaround radio controlled.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!