I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC i know of two people on the forums that still use dc. I am using cab control on my layout i isolated on both sides of the rail. My old layout i used common wire and had problems. It is all done the wiring and trains are running.I have 2 packs from mrc and i use atlas selectors. If i do a cab C for my yard i will have to wire that totally seperate from cab A & B. I was just wondering if i still am in old thinking school but i dont want to convert due to the cost. I am happy with the results just boggled on the Cab C is all.
Keith,
Although I, myself, use DCC, there are plenty of DCers here on the forum. And there's nothing wrong with staying with DC. It works well and it's reliable. No one's going to hold a gun to your head to change if you are content to stay with DC.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Take three transformers, make the (-) common and this goes to the LEFT rail throughout.
There is one wire coming from the layout, from the right rail, for each block. How many blocks do you have. That is how many switches you will need.
You can use rotary switches, or three position slide switches, or gang switches (The LION loves his gang switches, but has not seen any in All Electronics for years upon years---him thinks he bought the last of them.)
You should be able to do this without major re-wiring on the layout.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
keithh9824 ....It is all done the wiring and trains are running.I have 2 packs from mrc and i use atlas selectors. If i do a cab C for my yard i will have to wire that totally seperate from cab A & B. I was just wondering if i still am in old thinking school but i dont want to convert due to the cost. I am happy with the results just boggled on the Cab C is all.
....It is all done the wiring and trains are running.I have 2 packs from mrc and i use atlas selectors. If i do a cab C for my yard i will have to wire that totally seperate from cab A & B. I was just wondering if i still am in old thinking school but i dont want to convert due to the cost. I am happy with the results just boggled on the Cab C is all.
As you have discovered, the Atlas Selectors are usually set up for a 2 train layout.
There is a way to incorporate Atlas products (Controllers and Selectors) to add a third cab for the yard. This is illustrated in the wiring for the Atlas HO-29 Central Midland layout. The wiring shown allows either cab A or B (but not both at the same time) to bring a train into or out of the yard. Cab C is normally used for yard switching.
Although not done as frequently anymore, replacing the Selectors with 3 (or more) position rotary switches will give the ability to switch between the 3 cabs anyplace on the layout. Or just add the rotary switches for the yard instead of using Selectors. The rotary switches will probably have to be obtained from an electronics supply house unless you have access to a surplus stash.
Although I'm still a DC user at home, I use DCC at the club. I have to say that if you usually have 2 or more operators operating trains on shared trackage, the Atlas Selectors are about the most awkward way imaginable to operate. A DC system with toggle or rotary switches embedded in a layout diagram is easier. Having the switches embedded in a layout diagram makes it easier to know what switch controls what block. And of course, DCC does away with the Selectors, block toggles, or rotary switches.
There are those of us who take DC wiring to another level, typically using a combination of turnout control of blocks, X blocks, route control, and parts of Main-Zone-Local (MZL) control. The reasoning behind these various schemes is to simplify operations (fewer switches to keep track of) while maintaining needed flexibility in track usage.
OTOH, if you are normally operating by yourself, or the trains don't share track very often, the Atlas controls are just fine, and have a much smaller learning curve.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
fwrightThere is a way to incorporate Atlas products (Controllers and Selectors) to add a third cab for the yard. This is illustrated in the wiring for the Atlas HO-29 Central Midland layout. The wiring shown allows either cab A or B (but not both at the same time) to bring a train into or out of the yard. Cab C is normally used for yard switching.
Hello Keith,
I am still using DC. I operate alone and use the common rail Atlas selector method similar to what Fred describes.
Cab A goes to one side of the selector and CAB B and C use the other, but not at the same time. A DPDT toggle switches between B and C. Most of the time I use Cabs A and B. Occasionally I like to use C because it is a hand held.
Jim
I use DC, or atleast the most basic one powerpack rendition of it when I do run the trains. I need to figure out how to wire, make blocks, and all of this other very hard to understand stuff.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Keith, I too am still using DC for power and I just got back into the hobby. You can incorporate a third control source but it will take some special wiring . You need a DPDT toggle switch . I have a wiring diagram in a book but I tried taking a picture to show you but it is unreadable. let me know if you need more info and I will do my best to help, Joe
On last layout silly LION thought to have SIX Throttles on his DC layout.
Here is picture of old control panel:
Each row of these gang switches represented a branch (east, west, north, and south) and could be connected to any one of six power packs. You can see the power packs below the control panel. I used my own reversing switches rather than the ones with the power pack. It eventually got too complicated for the LION to keep it figured out, and him could no longer fit under the tables.
New Layout: No power packs, no throttles, no reversing switches: trains are automatic. LION can work on railroad and have five trains running at the same time. LION has good ears, and can hear if one of them is in trouble. Nice LION, Him make nice railroad.
keithh9824I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC i know of two people on the forums that still use dc.
It is all done the wiring and trains are running.I have 2 packs from mrc and i use atlas selectors. If i do a cab C for my yard i will have to wire that totally seperate from cab A & B.
It works like this, if the original set of selectors is set to A it works just like today. If the original selectors are set to the old B then the power going to it is determine by the second set of selectors which would choose B or C.
So it is really easy. The hardest part is remembering that two selector switch positions must be used to control the track.
The other way to do it would be to rework the panels and change from the Atlas selectors, replacing them with 3 way toggles or selector switches. Of course if you did that I would go with 4 way selector switches just for future expansion.
Keith,I still use DC but,I use a dual mode MRC Tech 6..I only use DCC for my DCC/Sound equipped locomotive.I have no desire to go 100% DCC.
As far as Atlas Selectors/controllers I used them on my few loop layouts and 2 of my larger ISLs and they work as intended.I never wired a toggle switch in the 55 plus years I been active in the hobby since I like the simple one block one wire selectors offered and block wiring doesn't get any simpler then that.
The most power packs I ever used was four..2 for the double track main line,Cab C for the yard and cab D for the engine terminal.All sectores had a "interchange" block..That's where I could bring a train into the yard using the mainline cabs..The other "interchange" block was between cab C and cab D.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Analog DC, MZL system with common rail. When the layout is fully built out I will be able to have independent control of a dozen moving trains at one time if there are operators available (or I acquire and train a couple of octupi.) The system is comparatively user friendly, much more so than the 'one cab selector switch per block' cab control systems. Theoretically, I could have five operators controlling separate locos on my 15 x 96 inch 'end of the railroad' module - except that there isn't room enough for the 1:1 scale bodies.
MZL is not for the faint of heart, or the electrically challenged. The wiring IS complex, but it makes the front of the control panels simple.
As an aside, with the exception of MRC power packs I avoid using anything other than standard electrical parts bought from electrical/electronic supply houses. The 'designed for the hobby' equivalent tend to be of awkward design, inferior quality and more expensive than the standard items. A good toggle switch and a good push button don't cost as much or take up as much panel space as an Atlas switch controller - and one glance will tell you which way the points were last thrown. Then, go to Tortoise or KTM switch machines for quality and durability. (My personal use of Atlas products begins and ends with flex track.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
keithh9824,
I too,am a diehard,DC user. Three-cab.MRC control master 20's. All hand held,two insulated rails,with double track main line.. No Atlas controllers anywhere. But all Altlas, switch machines,under table,and snap-relays,to control indicator lights on control panel and to power the frogs. All power comes from,it's own dedicated transformers. The only thing that the Mrc'S do is for the power to the track. Have not had any problems with the atlas machines at all... One time I drilled a hole for a frog feeder and drilled right into the coil on the machine,, Human error,,, I forgot that I had put that machine in reverse,, Ha HA, THAT BEING SAID,, I do run at times DCC engines,with sound, I have six of them and it works for me... So it has worked for going on 35yrs now and being 3months shy of 70, I 'll stay DC....
Cheers,
Frank
I am still DC and am preparing to start a slightly larger layout, which will be DC to start, but DCC is lurking in the mind, though far down in the wallet.
My plan for a larger layout, now on hold, was to have a main control panel with two power packs A & B. Each yard would have its own power pack and bank of Selectors. Position A would be power from the master control panel , position B, the local power pack. Since I have tethered throttles I will only have one control panel with two power packs on the layout I am working on now. If I ever get to do my dream, I will do as above if I can't afford the DCC at the moment. It will be insulated so that I can establish districts, should I need to at a later date.
Good luck,
Richard
Your simplest solution would be to use Texas Zephyr's advice for a second bank of selectors. Gets you another cab with out reworking what you have already.
See and I'm DCC but I've wired a ton of DC layouts too.
I'm DC, two separate power packs (one with hand-held) for the two yards and a very long mainline with another pack but walkaround radio controlled.
Keith, there are lots of us, likely about half or more of modelers are still DC.
In my case, somewhat advanced DC - 8 wireless radio throttles, modified MZL advanced cab control, integrated signaling, detection and CTC. And I do not use common rail because not using it actually adds some "free" features, like collision avoidance by staggering section breaks.
In my case cabs are assigned to the sections (blocks) with pushbuttons that allow full walk around operation with the radio throttles as well as central dispatch control.
I don't use any kind of onboard sound as it is of poor quality to my ears, so DC works just fine for my needs.
Sheldon
I see guys still holding onto DC with no desire to change. I also see guys still running deep pizza cutter flanges on their locos and rolling stock. There is a gentleman in our club that has the old hook and loop couplers that predates the horn hooks. No other hobby that I know of can be this diverse.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Haven't seen a Mantua coupler in ages. But I bet if John Allen were still alive, he'd still be using his Baker couplers.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I used rotary switches for multiple cabs beyond 2 when I had DC. Used to be more common on large layouts.
I eventually went to DCC for lots of reasons.
locoi1sa I see guys still holding onto DC with no desire to change. I also see guys still running deep pizza cutter flanges on their locos and rolling stock. There is a gentleman in our club that has the old hook and loop couplers that predates the horn hooks. No other hobby that I know of can be this diverse. Pete
Well I got rid of all the pizza wheels and converted to RP25 in 1969, and had real Kadee couplers on everything about the same time.
And I have looked long and hard at DCC, direct radio, and a few of the other command control systems that came before DCC.
But I have yet to see where my personal modeling goals would be served any better by any of those systems.
Those goals include detection, signaling, CTC operation, collision avoidance similar to ATC, both display and "session" operations, one button turnout routing, and both central and walk around control.
I use wireless radio DC throttles, but have a fleet of nearly 140 locos - a sizable investment in decoders alone that would not improve my operations one bit.
In fact it would simply make a lot more work and expense since all the locos I choose to run in multiple unit lash-ups run fine together now. Why would I want to spend time speed matching, etc - why fix what is not broke?
My goals do not include on board sound, ditch lights (I model the 50's), childish station announcements, helper locos, or anything else for which DCC might be seen as a plus.
I have a system of push button control that directly connects the correct cab to the desired track section as you walk around with your train - OR - the dispatcher can do it for you during CTC operation.
Much trackage is power routed based on turnout position with "X - sections" so the number of sections requiring "assignment" is about half the number of "typical" cab control schemes.
It is impossible to over run your cab and loose control - your train will simply stop.
With my signal and turnout controls, the whole thing cost less to build than what good decoders would cost for my 140 locos.
I operate DCC a fair amount on the layouts of friends - it seems no worse or better than the good DC systems I have used in last 40 years.
I will conceded, that if I liked or wanted on board sound, I would need DCC.
But I don't, so I don't.
Gosh darn Sheldon calm down a bit. I didn't say anything derogatory about DC control. We old timers grew up on it and it worked! I know a whole bunch of guys that have the "If it aint broke, don't fix it" attitude. Nothing wrong with it at all. Since I run mostly steam I like the sound so I jumped on the DCC band wagon as soon as I heard the first generation of Soundtraxx DCC only decoders at the time . DCC easier than DC? I say sometimes. It has really turned out to be a hobby within a hobby. If I didn't like the sound I would still be DC too.
davidmbedardJust make the plunge into DCC....2 wires is all you need!David B
Until you get to to signals and CTC, then you cut the track up into sections just like DC, and run a whole bunch more wires, imagine that.
davidmbedardJust make the plunge into DCC....2 wires is all you need! David B
David,That is very true but,as you know DCC "experts" recommand wiring your layout in sections since it will be easier to trouble shoot if there is a short..
Sounds like a new buzzword for the so called "old fashion" DC blocks..
keithh9824 I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC ?
I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC ?
Although the OP has yet to be heard from again, don't you get the sense that he was asking the question tongue in cheek?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain keithh9824 I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC ? Although the OP has yet to be heard from again, don't you get the sense that he was asking the question tongue in cheek? Rich
Oh, Oh,,,,,
Flame war,, Flame war,,
zstripe richhotrain keithh9824 I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC ? Although the OP has yet to be heard from again, don't you get the sense that he was asking the question tongue in cheek? Rich Oh, Oh,,,,, Flame war,, Flame war,, Cheers, Frank
Frank,
Me thinks you are spraying an accelerant.
I am being quite serious and attempting to be quite non-controversial.
No flame war sought, no flame war intended.
I simply think that the OP was posing this question tongue in cheek.
To suggest that there are only two people on these forums who still use DC is not to be taken seriously.
Rich,
You are correct,,,,, My intention, was to focus on You, get a rise, so to speak,,LOL,,
This thread,, I believe in my opinion only,, is a DC,verses,DCC, AGAIN..
Cheers,,,, DIE HARD DC USER..
richhotrain Me thinks you are spraying an accelerant.
My cat sprays, but I do not think he is using an accelerate.
zstripeThis thread,, I believe in my opinion only,, is a DC,verses,DCC, AGAIN..
Frank,Perhaps but,if it is as you think, its one of the most civilized and lopsided DCC vs.DC topics I ever read on any forum.
Whew! I seen some doozies over the years..
richhotrain zstripe richhotrain keithh9824 I was just wondering if there is anyone left that still uses DC ? Although the OP has yet to be heard from again, don't you get the sense that he was asking the question tongue in cheek? Rich Oh, Oh,,,,, Flame war,, Flame war,, Cheers, Frank Frank, Me thinks you are spraying an accelerant. I am being quite serious and attempting to be quite non-controversial. No flame war sought, no flame war intended. I simply think that the OP was posing this question tongue in cheek. To suggest that there are only two people on these forums who still use DC is not to be taken seriously. Rich
I'm not so sure about that. The OP has talked rather seriously about is DC controls in the recent past, and has asked a number of DC related questions. While he may have been being a little dramatic with the modifier "two", he may "feel" that way among all the "DCC talk" on here.