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PRR Signal Disk Heads Only

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:54 AM

zstripe

Well,, I guess I don't have to hang on the clock any longer, my hands were really getting tired.....LOL...

Cheers,

Frank

Frank, we need to lower your expectations. 

Did you visit this thread to learn or to yearn?   Laugh

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:19 AM

Well,, I guess I don't have to hang on the clock any longer, my hands were really getting tired.....LOL...

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by alloboard on Friday, March 15, 2013 7:52 PM

Very interesting device. Thanks for the link.

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Posted by alloboard on Friday, March 15, 2013 7:50 PM

The wiring will be directly connected to my Digitrax SE8C Signal Controller.

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Posted by alloboard on Friday, March 15, 2013 7:43 PM

Thanks allot for the link.

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Posted by alloboard on Friday, March 15, 2013 7:36 PM

The black wire went to the positive (+) terminal of the battery and the other wires (one at a time) went to the negative (-) terminal. I attached the wires to both terminals.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 11, 2013 6:41 AM

I don't know if others are as curious as I am concerning the actual prototype operation of these signals.

While these signals were originally installed and operated by PRR, they are now owned and operated by Amtrak. 

I found a link to the Amtrak Northeast Corridor signal aspects protocol that modifies the original PRR protocol.

http://www.railroadsignals.us/rulebooks/amtraknec/index.htm

Now I see how the 13 LEDs are lighted by 8 wires.

There are 2 yellow wires, 2 green wires, 1 red wire, 1 blue wire, 1 white wire and 1 black wire.

The lights work in combinations.  There are only 7 combinations.

Yellow - Top
Yellow - Bottom

Green -  Top
Green - Bottom

Red - Top

Blue - Bottom

White - Bottom

The eighth wire, the black wire, is the common wire.

Getting those green and yellow lights to flash must involve some interesting wiring.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Sunday, March 10, 2013 5:59 AM

Rich,

(So many questions so few answers)

Agreed!!!!

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 10, 2013 5:45 AM

alloboard

The signal comes with color codes wires: 2 yellow 2 green 1 blue and 1 white to match the color of the signal lights. The wires came with resistors already soldered on. There was no manual with this signal.

I finally got them all to work by using a 9V battery for testing. I put the black wire on one of the leads of the 9V battery and the colored ones one by one with the black wire.

I will get the same results when I use track power instead of the 9V battery except that polarity does not matter on DCC track power.

This reply raises more questions than it answers.

For one thing, how did you suddenly get the LEDs to work with a 9V battery when they wouldn't work before?  I am not saying that you didn't, but I just wonder what you did wrong in the first place.

Second, are you saying that you put both the colored wire and the black wire together on one battery terminal.  That, of course, would not work because the circuit would not be completed.

I am wondering why NJ International would use the black wire, not the conventional white wire, as the common. 

Did every wire come with a resistor attached except the black wire?

If the wire color matches the LED color, what is the purpose of the blue wire?  The white wire?

How did you get the signals to work with track power as well as with the 9V battery?  A lot of us are interested in how this signal should be wired and what is the purpose of each wire?

Some had asked about 8 wires for 13 LED signals.  How do you control the various lighting combinations?

So many questions, so few answers.

Rich

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, March 9, 2013 11:13 PM

Perhaps this is the place to mention this handy little gizmo?

I might want to invest in one myself... looks like fun! Even if there are already resistors installed, just clamp the other end under the screw terminal to "bypass" it.

http://www.logicrailtech.com/st-1.htm

Ed

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 9, 2013 11:09 PM

alloboard

I finally got them all to work by using a 9V battery for testing. I put the black wire on one of the leads of the 9V battery and the colored ones one by one with the black wire.

alloboard,

Because of terminology, I'm still somewhat in a fog here about what exactly you did to test the signal. 

Which terminal of the battery did you attach the black wire to: positive (+) or negative (-)?  You then attached the colored wires (one at a time) to the black wire that's connected to one of the two battery terminals?  What's attached to the other terminal of the battery to complete the circuit?

The way you've described it, you've attached both the black and colored wires to the same terminal.  The LEDs just won't work unless you attach the wires to both terminals.

Tom

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Posted by alloboard on Saturday, March 9, 2013 10:39 PM

     The signal comes with color codes wires: 2 yellow 2 green 1 blue and 1 white to match the color of the signal lights. The wires came with resistors already soldered on. There was no manual with this signal. If there was, I would not have asked this question on this forum. I finally got them all to work by using a 9V battery for testing. I put the black wire on one of the leads of the 9V battery and the colored ones one by one with the black wire. I will get the same results when I use track power instead of the 9V battery except that polarity does not matter on DCC track power. I thank you all for your inputs, ideas, concern and help.

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:05 PM

From prior posts, Rich, alloboard is not real keen about soldering.  From what he wrote in this thread, I took it that the signal came with the resistors already soldered on.  However, alloboard will have to verify that...or whether he did just twist the wires around the resistors before testing them.

alloboard tends to be a night owl so we probably won't get a reply till the wee hours of the morning - at least for me.

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 9, 2013 5:02 PM

tstage

At the very least, it's a mining expedition to get needed info from the OP.

 
That is proving to be the biggest problem.
 
Among the many issues that are not clear to me is whether the pre-wired signal head came with resistors attached or whether they were separate in the package and the OP simply twisted the wires around the legs of the resistors.
 
Rich

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:29 PM

Good question, Frank.  Perhaps for a few of the LEDs?  At the very least, it's a mining expedition to get needed info from the OP.

Tom

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:24 PM

Somehow 13 lites and 8 wires don't sound right to me, possibly 2 mast heads in series????

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:22 PM

rrinker

 He sent me a PM that indicated he tested with a 9v battery AND DCC track power - seems likely it's toast.

            --Randy

I noted that in his earlier response on pg. 1 (see below), Randy, but wasn't sure if alloboard was saying he tested them simultaneously or separately.

alloboard

I tried testing the lights by putting the wires with resistors on a 9V battery and my Digitrax DCC track but none of the leads will light up.

Expensive lesson if the LEDs are now indeed DEDs.

Tom

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:14 PM

OH, OH .. no refund for DEDS...

Cheers,

 Frank,

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:12 PM

richhotrain

rrinker

The signals should have come with a wiring diagram that shows what goes where. If they are resistored for 12V operation, they should still light on a 9V battery. I would not randomly test across different wires without a wiring diagram, because even the slightest touch of the battery with no resistor will ruin the expensive signal.

 

It is not clear to me from what the OP has told us whether (1) wiring instructions came with the signal (2) the wires are differently colored or not or (3) the resistors that came with the signal are already attached to the wires or not.

My fear is that the OP may have already burned out the LEDs.  If he has tested the wiring with a 9V battery and the LEDs don't light, and assuming that he placed the correct wires on the correct battery terminals, the outcome of this thread does not appear good.

Rich

Rick,

While I don't know whether there are actually any wiring instructions, I thought alloboard did indicate that there were different color wires and added resistors from his previous post:

alloboard

     I'm trying to test them. They have the resistors. I have not soldered anything yet. all the wires have resistors except for the black wire. There are 13 lights on the two disk heads. There 8 colored wires. There are 2 yellow 2 green 1 black 1 blue 1 white and 1 red.

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:09 PM

 He sent me a PM that indicated he tested with a 9v battery AND DCC track power - seems likely it's toast.

            --Randy


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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:03 PM

The link that tstage gave him, although N-scale, has a wiring diagram in it that shows how to test the LEDS, using a 9volt bat and 1k resistor.. Whetther he read it or not, I don't know. maybe him thinking it was N-scale it would not work....Just a thought.....

Cheers,

Frank 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 9, 2013 3:05 PM

rrinker

The signals should have come with a wiring diagram that shows what goes where. If they are resistored for 12V operation, they should still light on a 9V battery. I would not randomly test across different wires without a wiring diagram, because even the slightest touch of the battery with no resistor will ruin the expensive signal.

 

It is not clear to me from what the OP has told us whether (1) wiring instructions came with the signal (2) the wires are differently colored or not or (3) the resistors that came with the signal are already attached to the wires or not.

My fear is that the OP may have already burned out the LEDs.  If he has tested the wiring with a 9V battery and the LEDs don't light, and assuming that he placed the correct wires on the correct battery terminals, the outcome of this thread does not appear good.

Rich

 

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 9, 2013 1:00 PM

rrinker

There's a much easier way to make a black LED, simply connect a 9V battery to one without a resistor. In less than a second you will have made a DED, Dark Emitting Diode. You can churn out hundreds in a few minutes at the bench. Saves the expense of all those reistors, and the pain of soldering them in place.

Randy, I had an engineer friend who was also very fond of FEDs: Flame emitting diodes. Big Smile

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, March 9, 2013 12:37 PM

 There's a much easier way to make a black LED, simply connect a 9V battery to one without a resistor. In less than a second you will have made a DED, Dark Emitting Diode. You can churn out hundreds in a few minutes at the bench. Saves the expense of all those reistors, and the pain of soldering them in place.

 As to the actual topic of this thread, the signals should have come with a wiring diagram that shows what goes where. If they are resistored for 12V operation, they should still light on a 9V battery. I would not randomly test across different wires without a wiring diagram, because even the slightest touch of the battery with no resistor will ruin the expensive signal.

 Witing them to the SE8C requires a little extra work. Digitrax has an app note on the SE8C product page for color position signals as well as PRR position signals, it's a bit more complicated than wiring a simple 3 color signal because of the multiple LEDs, the PRR ones need extra diodes because the middle light is on for all 3 indications.

             --Randy

 


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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 9, 2013 11:50 AM

tstage

richhotrain

What I meant, although I didn't say it very eloquently, is not to place resistors on both wires leading from the LED legs.

Agreed, Rich.  The resistors on both leads is only for the special "dark" LEDs. Smile, Wink & Grin

Tom

Tom, that's what I do for my black LEDs.   Wink

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 9, 2013 11:05 AM

richhotrain

What I meant, although I didn't say it very eloquently, is not to place resistors on both wires leading from the LED legs.

Agreed, Rich.  The resistors on both leads is only for the special "dark" LEDs. Smile, Wink & Grin

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 9, 2013 10:50 AM

tstage

richhotrain

Also, which wires have resistors added to them?  The common wire(s) should not have resistors attached.

Actually, Rich, the resistor can go on either one of the LED leads.  I put mine on the cathode (-) just to be consistent.

Tom

What I meant, although I didn't say it very eloquently, is not to place resistors on both wires leading from the LED legs.  As a practice, I always solder resistors to the green and red wires (or whatever colors) and treat the white wire(s) as common, without a resistor.

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 9, 2013 10:47 AM

alloboard

     I'm trying to test them. They have the resistors. I have not soldered anything yet. all the wires have resistors except for the black wire. There are 13 lights on the two disk heads. There 8 colored wires. There are 2 yellow 2 green 1 black 1 blue 1 white and 1 red.

You'll have to check them one at a time, alloboard.  The blue is your common (+) wire and goes to the anode or longer lead of an LED.  The blue wire will go on the positive (+) terminal of your battery and the other wires (one at a time) to the negative (-) terminal.

If the resistors are already soldered on, again - a 9V battery may not have sufficient juice to light them up.  If it does, it will probably be pretty weak.

Tom

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 9, 2013 10:40 AM

richhotrain

Also, which wires have resistors added to them?  The common wire(s) should not have resistors attached.

Actually, Rich, the resistor can go on either one of the LED leads.  I put mine on the cathode (-) just to be consistent.

Tom

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