So, I finally made a decision on what Sound Decoder to purchase and place an order yesterday. Because I have very high regard for Digitrax, I went with their SFX064D.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
The Digitrax is an 8 bit processer. Joe
rrinker I think it's a steam vs diesel thing. I don;t really like ANY Tsunami diesel sounds, and particualrly their horns are about the worst of any. The horns in the Tsunami I have are no better than the ones in the old Soundtraxx DSD-LC I have. Prime mover is a bit better in the Tsunami, but that's also generic VS specific 567A. Most Youtube videos of Tsunami diesels fail to impress as well. The STEAM ones though - other than sometimes low whistle volume, do sound VERY good. --Randy
I think it's a steam vs diesel thing. I don;t really like ANY Tsunami diesel sounds, and particualrly their horns are about the worst of any. The horns in the Tsunami I have are no better than the ones in the old Soundtraxx DSD-LC I have. Prime mover is a bit better in the Tsunami, but that's also generic VS specific 567A. Most Youtube videos of Tsunami diesels fail to impress as well.
The STEAM ones though - other than sometimes low whistle volume, do sound VERY good.
--Randy
Randy,
I have found to get something I'm happy with on the diesels requires a good, bigger speaker, high bass, sometimes 2 of them with good enclosures I make myself. There are many good things they have done with several prime movers. I really like the 645 non turbo. The 567 has good transition on notches. The equalizer makes a BIG difference once you get speakers installed that can handle some adjustment. Reverb can help with the horns sometimes. I have one GE unit in a P42 that sounds just like the Amtrak 5 chime that comes through town twice daily.
Richard
Digitrax sound uses a higher ohm value for speakers too, I think 32. Which limits the envelope of available speakers for installs. I don' t think their processor is 16 bit or better either, but can't recall for sure.
Motor control still leaves a lot to be desired on DIgitrax decoders, sound or non-sound. Their BEMF implemntation is weak, at best. There are a coupel of steps across the 128 SS range where they apparantly gathered all the acculumated 'error' in the BEMF forumula (computers working in powers of 2 have a few numbers they cannot directl express, so rounding errors creep in) so you get jumps between those speed steps instead of a smooth acceleration.
They still haven;t done anything to the code to make LEDs work better - the effects are great for incandescent bulbs, but they fall flat with LEDs.
The sounds - if you go to the Yahoo Group Digitraxsound and see what some of the people have managed to make these decoders do - it's amazing. None of the samples currently in the Sound Depot are up to those standards. Proper HEP sounds for Amtrak diesels, notching with transition effects between notches, all sorts of stuff. The problem is, it isn;t very easy to create these sort of things yourself.
Another neat project is one that is desnged to make the Digitrax sound decoder into a stationary sound unit - hook it up to some powered computer speakers for under-layout sounds and load some sound files of background noises, it then plays some continuously, some at random, and then has some triggered sounds as well, like one of those sound boards that are avaialble. With the Digitrax decoders you have direct access to the code running on the processor. The good news is, this means you cna make it do darn near anything. The bad news is, you have to be a PIC programming expert to actually do it all. Other decoders that let you change sounds have you interect with a 'script' that says which sound to play when certain conditions are met, and underlying biut of the firmware which you never touch is responsibly for interpreting this script at runtime to play the sounds, so rather than program the entire processor, you tell it what to play and when, the complicated coding is done for you. That's the real difference between Digitrax and some of the others.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
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The problem with Digitrax decoders in the past were: poor sound volume,limited sound files, the loco slowing down when the horn/whistle was blon and when the bell was rung. I don't know if the decoders have been fixed. If you want to change sound files you need a PR3 and 18V power supply. I use this and JMRI to programm my sound decoders(QSI,Soundtraxx). Join the Digitrax sound Yahoo group if you plan om trying their decoders. Some members have created their own sound files that are not on Digitrax's web site. I have a steam loco I run just for the fun of it( I run diesels). I down loaded a steam file from the Yahoo group into the Digitrax HO sound decoder. The volume is great and it runs fine. So the answer from me would be how much do you want to invest in usingDigitrax decoders? IE PR3, loading the sounds into you computer and then into the decoder? If money is not tight, try a PR3 and Digitrax decoder yourself. Joe
To just say Digitrax Decoders suck, is meaningless! Did you: read the instructions; or, talk to the manufacturer about your problems and where they helpful?
I am not going after you Gatrhumpy, only asking you to be more specific. If your talking about Digitrax's sound decoders, not performing well sound wise, O.K. this has been mentioned, I've seen good and bad reviews of all the decoder mentioned, both here on the MR Forums and at retailers that have customer product reviews. My own experience installing 10-12 Digitrax non-sound decoders, I feel trumps your comment that they suck.
Yeah it sucks. I've had two Digitrax sound decoders and one non-sound decoder and they were porr performers and just sucked all around. Now whenever people ask me about sound decoders I'll steer them away from Digitrax like the plague.
narrow gauge nuclearNote: I run narrow gauge engines and all narrow gauge stuff was and still is worn out in real life and rod clank is omni-present. It is part of the narrow gauge scene.
Richard,
If the rod clank didn't sound like the beginning of an alien invasion, I wouldn't mind so much. Having spent time just behind the engine and at trackside, it only modestly resembles the real thing. Not quite sure how they got everything else pretty much right and that sound, well, just weird.
Whistle volume for the steam Tsunami is CV 129 and easy to bump up in Ops Mode.
For a long time, I used the programming track I have back in staging that's powered by my NCE PowerCab. Lately I've been doing more programming in Ops Mode out on the line now that I trust myself enough with DCC I'm not worried about setting everything to Default #3 . There are a few things that can't be done in Ops Mode, but it tends to be arcane stuff, most everything else common can be done on the main.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
It's Tsunami for me as well. I do find that I never use a program track and always program on the main using my Digitrax Zephyr DC-51. I have had no trouble with the Tsunami rod clank sound and can turn it up or down at will as I can with all sounds. Note: I run narrow gauge engines and all narrow gauge stuff was and still is worn out in real life and rod clank is omni-present. It is part of the narrow gauge scene.
Printing the full Tsunami sound manual can cause any new comer to freak a bit, but it just shows the full featured nature of the beast and what you ploped down the 100 skins for.
I recently installed the TSU750 for the K series in an old PFM United K-28 that I also remotored and it works fabulously.
You do get what you pay for, that's for sure.
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
The PTB-100 is a booster, not a programmer like Loksounds or QSIs. It is useful in programming all decoders on the programming track. You can program without it by using service mode programming. I have a PTB-100 and find it valuable, particularly with the JMRI software for all decoders.
Not necessarily, depends on your DCC system.
I have not needed a program track booster to program Tsunami, QSI, MRC, Digitrax, or Loksound decoders with my Digitrax equipment.
Some do.
Program on the main always works
Is the following correct: If I buy a Soundtraxx Tsunami TSU1000 Light Steam decoder, I will also need to buy their programer?
I have spent a lot of money trying different sound chips and speakers as well as buying OEM sound equipped locos. At this point, due to the prime mover in diesels, I prefer Tsunami's by far. I have diesels crawling at less than 1smph. The speaker type and enclosure are vital. I have redone all the speaker installs in the OEM locos, except those with the Atlas teepee. I had one Tsunami equipped switcher that sounded very poor with a 645 prime mover. I replaced the OEM speaker with a medium speaker and good sealing and it sounds great now. Some of the whistles and horns are not the best.
I have a junk box with QSI Rev U and A, various MRCs and various Digitrax sound decoders.
BTW, when people come visit and want to see the layout, they prefer the loco sound coming out of the ones with Tsunami's.
NP,
Need for a sound programmer or booster depends on both the decoder and the DCC system involved. What's involved is everything from a bit of extra oomph needed to program sound engines, in the Tsunami's case, all the way up to complete sound files swapouts, like with ESU.
I can only speak to Tsunami's on this. Soundtraxx recommends their PTB-100, which provides the right levels to program the Tsunamis. I run NCE and from what I've heard you do need the PTB-100 with their PowerPro and other full scale command stations. However, if you have a PowerCab -- the all-in one handheld that looks like the PowerPro hammerhead controller, but which includes its own power supply -- it has all the oomph you need. I ended up selling the unopened PTB-100 to someone else that needed it.
Because Tsunami programming is burned at the factory and not user-uploadable, that's all there is to Tsunami's booster requirements.
AussieRescueIL SNIP I would be interested in hearing what people think of the factory installed decoders from Atlas and Athearn and the others as far as sound quality and motor control. I would have to agree with others, the motor control is the 1st thing on my list of wanting best performing, with the sound coming in next.
I would be interested in hearing what people think of the factory installed decoders from Atlas and Athearn and the others as far as sound quality and motor control. I would have to agree with others, the motor control is the 1st thing on my list of wanting best performing, with the sound coming in next.
I have 3 Atlas C420s with QSI sound and they are spot on (considering I heard these engines plenty sitting in jr high in Bloomington while bored out of my wits with 9th grade.)
I also have 4 P2K F units with QSI sound. They're good, but I haven't the kind of personal experience with them that I can vouch for it myself.
I will say that complaints about motor control with most sound decoders are frequently resolved by reference to the documentation. That's been my experience personally, so I suspect I'm far from the only person who'll benefit from doing so. QSI programming is particularly cryptic if you're used to NCE and Tsunami decoders. Once I figured out the rather more complex scheme QSI uses for motor control, things settled down.
NSDash09, thanks for your in depth review and unbiased opinions! I guess I am such a novice at sound that I was unaware that some sound decoders need a separate programmer! This requires further study on the topic!
What does the programmer do?
cacole You'll probably have to adjust CV 135 on a programming track.
You'll probably have to adjust CV 135 on a programming track.
You can adjust CV 135 in Ops Mode, so no need for the programming track. Yep, should be able to turn it all the way off or at least down to something more bearable. BTW, the rod clank sound is my complaint about Tsunami sounds. The rest are good, but rod clank is a bit strange.
Digitrax -> no personal experience with sound, I have heard an witnessed from NSModeler24 on youtube that custom sounds can be very good
MRC -> no personal experience, was never worth trying for ~$40 when every review I read said they were bad
Loksound -> I use all loksound decoders, they are programmable, and their sounds are excellent. I really like the start up/ shut down vs tsunami where you have to use E stop to shut down.
Tsunami/ soundtraxx -> good for factory install, decent sounds, horns are a little weak and start up shut down as previously mentioned
QSI -> no personal experience, upper end competitor with Loksound and tsunami.
Loksound -> $81.99
Tsunami -> 97.58
QSI -> 103.95
Digitrax -> 40.96
Loksound is a more European company but their sounds are good, their prices are good, and they have up to 6 aux decoders in the select line. I will actually be getting these for any NS heritage units so I can have front and rear ditch lights that flash.
Soundtraxx has good base sounds but they cannot be reprogrammed. A little bit more expensive but more of an industry standard.
QSI, seems a bit expensive but if i find a loco, probably steam, and QSI has the best sound I will go with them. Tsunami steam is not my favorite and Loksounds steam files are older if i remember correctly.
Digitrax has great prices and a 70 dollar programmer. I actually plan on getting one when I have the free money. Just got a Lokprogrammer so buying another decoder that will shine brightest only with another programmer seems silly plus I'm broke.
For MRC, skip a step and just buy a different decoder. MonsterRailroad (also on youtube) had a good review of why not to use MRC (good sound comparison etc.)
Overall, I use loksound personally. They had the best sound file when I was looking for a decoder for my Dash 9 and they haven't let me down four decoders later. If I were to go more budget on my locos I would give Digitrax a try. I trust digitrax enough to try for $40. In general, I would also focus on speakers. Railmaster hobbies has great speakers and tonystrains (i got prices there too) also sells high quality speakers. I prefer dual speakers. They sound the best and they smoke any singe speaker set up I've tried. Hope this helps and good luck!
cacole selector Buuuuuuuuuttttt,,, there was that generic rod clank that I couldn't shut off or turn down, no matter what I did. Further, if you listen to recent Tsunami installations today on youtube, they all have that same generic rod clank, same pitch, same omnipresence...[sigh...]. Crandell Go to the Soundtraxx web site and download their Tsunami Steam Technical Reference Manual. On Page 64 of that document you will see that CV 135 is the Rod Clank Volume. By adjusting the value in CV 135, you can turn it off completely or to a lower volume so it is barely heard. Chuck, I did that, but the rod clank volume remained unchanged. I don't know why. I'll give it a another try next time I have the J on the rails.
selector Buuuuuuuuuttttt,,, there was that generic rod clank that I couldn't shut off or turn down, no matter what I did. Further, if you listen to recent Tsunami installations today on youtube, they all have that same generic rod clank, same pitch, same omnipresence...[sigh...]. Crandell
Buuuuuuuuuttttt,,, there was that generic rod clank that I couldn't shut off or turn down, no matter what I did. Further, if you listen to recent Tsunami installations today on youtube, they all have that same generic rod clank, same pitch, same omnipresence...[sigh...].
Crandell
Unfortunately, I wasn't at the show myself - but have seen the mention of this decoder myself on a couple blogs .... anxiously awaiting a report as well !
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
tstage So, how was it, Mark? Tom
So, how was it, Mark?
Tom
Yes, how was it?
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
TCS unveiled their new steam sound decoder this week-end at the Springfield show .... could diesels be far behind ?
Years ago when I was in N scale Digitrax and TCS were the decoders I ran, I always felt the Digitrax while having more features at the time, the TCS had better motor control, but that was almost 6 or more years ago, and I imagine decoders have excelled at how they perform.
I am now into HO and didn't do my research as I should have, instead buying all MRC decoders for my Athearn GP's and the Atlas genset. I recently was introduced to Loksound, and have decided to convert al my engines over to Loksound, the Micro Selects, I was blown away at the better clarity in the sound, the fact I can get rule 17, and eventually I will by the Loksound programmer for fine tuning. The Loksounds also seem to have a smooth as silk motor control compared to how the MRC's respond, step 1 in the Lok's is a nice 1-2 mph crawl, as were no mater what I do, my genset seems to only get down to 4-5 mph, and is a bit jerky at a 10-15 mph speed.
Costs for either the MRC or the Loksound for me, the Loksound was actually a better price.
NP2626 I see that Bachmann offers locos with sound; but, doesn't seem to offer decoders as stand alone products
The Bachmann sound locos are Tsunami chips, and cannot be purchased as they are licensed to Bachmann only, some are stripped down versions missing some features (coupler clank in the Alco 2-6-0 sound value for example)